Dancer Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 In the real world poisons are a staple weapon when it comes to assassinations. However in the Cosmere when you have people like bloodmakers, gold compounders, NR, Awakeners, Elantirans and Dahkor monks who's Investiture makes them immune or resistant to virtually all poisons then it becomes quite useless. This got me thinking what if there was a way to even the playing field for non highly invested individuals. If there existed invested plants out there in the Cosmere that were toxic and also interfered with invested healing then this would be a way to put controls or at least limit on people like the Lord Ruler. what do you guys think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wander89 Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Dancer said: In the real world poisons are a staple weapon when it comes to assassinations. However in the Cosmere when you have people like bloodmakers, gold compounders, NR, Awakeners, Elantirans and Dahkor monks who's Investiture makes them immune or resistant to virtually all poisons then it becomes quite useless. This got me thinking what if there was a way to even the playing field for non highly invested individuals. If there existed invested plants out there in the Cosmere that were toxic and also interfered with invested healing then this would be a way to put controls or at least limit on people like the Lord Ruler. what do you guys think Poisons may still work. Kabsal wants a word.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Posted September 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 he was normal and an idiot. even if he successfully got her to consume the poison, all Jasnah had to do was suck in some Stormlight and she would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 There are invested poisons on Elantris. Brandon always refers to the potions Hrathen consumes as poisons, Hrathen just used some that wouldn't kill himself. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/133-elantris-annotations/#e2140 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/133-elantris-annotations/#e2040 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Dancer said: he was normal and an idiot. even if he successfully got her to consume the poison, all Jasnah had to do was suck in some Stormlight and she would be fine. That would have given the ghostbloods confirmation of her Radiant status(which they may or may not have had). Also the poison was in her bloodstream. Sucking in stormlight may have kept her on her feat but I have no idea how that would have healed her. Shallan stops alcohol poisoning like this but alcohol is a simple molecule that is easy to break down. We don't know what Kabsal uses but if he was smart it would be something that the body can't normally break down making stormlight much less useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 As already mentioned, Forton's potions on Elantris are Invested and those might be able to bypass some resistance granted by other forms of Investiture. There's also the solution used in Warbreaker to kill Lemex; use lots and lots of poison to bypass that Investiture-granted immunity. If someone doesn't have an active healing power like Stormlight or F-Gold but just an increased natural resistance, that might work provided you can administer it. For someone with active healing, it's a lot harder since they can recover from almost anything as long as they have enough of whatever it is that drives their particular brand of healing. 33 minutes ago, Karger said: Sucking in stormlight may have kept her on her feat but I have no idea how that would have healed her. Shallan stops alcohol poisoning like this but alcohol is a simple molecule that is easy to break down. We don't know what Kabsal uses but if he was smart it would be something that the body can't normally break down making stormlight much less useful. Doesn't really matter with Stormlight healing because like pretty much all forms of healing magic it doesn't really care about whether or not your body can break down the poison, it just wipes your Physical slate clean and restores the way it 'should' be according to your Spiritual template. If a Bloodmaker who's tapping their stored health at the right time can survive bisection (which needless to say a normal human cannot) poison is going to be a cakewalk. The only thing that would really matter would be if the Surgebinder has enough Stormlight available to heal themselves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Weltall said: Doesn't really matter with Stormlight healing because like pretty much all forms of healing magic it doesn't really care about whether or not your body can break down the poison, it just wipes your Physical slate clean and restores the way it 'should' be according to your Spiritual template. If a Bloodmaker who's tapping their stored health at the right time can survive bisection (which needless to say a normal human cannot) poison is going to be a cakewalk. The only thing that would really matter would be if the Surgebinder has enough Stormlight available to heal themselves. Bloodmaking is a different power. It is almost certainly more extensive. Also we are talking about different problems here. If you were to put a barbed arrow into a bloodmaker you could still slow them down until that got removed because the body's healing processes have no method of expelling the bolt. If your body has no natural method of combating the poison then the healing will keep you alive until you run out of fuel but it might not fix the underlying problem that is causing the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Karger said: Bloodmaking is a different power. It is almost certainly more extensive. Also we are talking about different problems here. If you were to put a barbed arrow into a bloodmaker you could still slow them down until that got removed because the body's healing processes have no method of expelling the bolt. If your body has no natural method of combating the poison then the healing will keep you alive until you run out of fuel but it might not fix the underlying problem that is causing the damage. Stormlight healing and F-Gold both work on the same underlying principle though, which is rewriting the Physical body to match the Spiritual ideal, as filtered through the Cognitive self-image. Brandon explicitly places both forms of healing in the same category on multiple occasions, like in the long WoB on immortality and healing. Trimmed for length Quote Brandon Sanderson Heals from wounds, but still ages. (Knights Radiant with Stormlight are like this.) Shagomir Heals from wounds, but still ages. Would Bloodmaker Ferrings exist in this category as well? If not, what about someone compounding Gold? Brandon Sanderson Yes, you are correct. Stormlight Three Update #5 (Nov. 29, 2016) And here, where both forms of healing are stated to be able to make extensive Physical changes which the body has no way of doing on its own: Quote R'Shara Would Stormlight healing, Progression, or Feruchemical gold healing count as some of the ways that a transgender person could change their body to match their identity? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Those would work. In fact, that's kind of the main way that you would make that happen. Injections of Investiture making the body match the Spiritual and Cognitive. Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018) Aaaaand here too: Quote Kurkistan Is there any difference between the healing that Feruchemical gold and held Stormlight can accomplish? Brandon Sanderson There are minor differences, but they work on the same principle, so... Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015) It literally does not matter if it's an incurable poison normally, the state of 'being poisoned' is not part of your Spiritual ideal any more than being bisected is (or in most cases, missing limbs which we also know can be regenerated using Stormlight and F-Gold) so the magic will heal it. It just might require more of the magic to do so depending on how much damage it's done to your body. The only times when having something stuck in you is noted to be a factor for healing is if the foreign object is made of aluminum, since it messes with the Investiture in the healing. Other metals are a non-issue and we've seen Wayne and Miles simply push bullets and shrapnel out of their bodies as they heal. That said, getting huge amounts of aluminum into someone could be an effective way to poison a person and negate any healing ability, but aluminum isn't all that toxic so the amount you'd need would be enough that simply shooting/stabbing them with an aluminum bullet or blade would probably be far more effective. Edited September 1, 2019 by Weltall 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Weltall said: The only times when having something stuck in you is noted to be a factor for healing is if the foreign object is made of aluminum, since it messes with the Investiture in the healing. Other metals are a non-issue and we've seen Wayne and Miles simply push bullets and shrapnel out of their bodies as they heal. Only bullets. I am not sure that we would see the same effect with something like a barbed arrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Posted September 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 5 hours ago, Karger said: Only bullets. I am not sure that we would see the same effect with something like a barbed arrow. Shallan gets an arrow stuck in her head in OB. The bone was healed around the arrow so her body couldn't push it out. She had to get one of her helpers to rip it out of her. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 8 hours ago, Dancer said: Shallan gets an arrow stuck in her head in OB. The bone was healed around the arrow so her body couldn't push it out. She had to get one of her helpers to rip it out of her. Exactly. If she had not done that she would likely have died once her stormlight ran out. If you can duplicate that kind of effect with poison(something your body can't get rid of) you can kill almost anyone in the cosmere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twenty second of the sun Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 i think what you would do is have stormlight until the poison gets out of your system or is nullified,the stormlight simply heals the damage the poison does . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Breath doesn't even provide healing and it makes you immune to all poison. Add an active healing effect and I don't see why it wouldn't just purge/negate the problem. Cosmere healing can regrow limbs. It can grow a new head if your decapitated. It can literally regrow half your body if you've been bisected. A little impurity in the blood seems negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twenty second of the sun Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 that is what I'm wondering . Its like when moash kills elohkar ,he leaves the knife in until the stormlight goes away. If your a knight radiant and someone poisons you would you start feeling the affects after you run out of stormlight ? . With shallan im pretty sure ( not certain) that she woke up with a hangover. I don't think the stormlight would somehow remove it ,unless you were lift and able to metabolize the poison directly into investiture . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twenty second of the sun Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 If you don't remove the poison then I would assume all stormlight does is negate the affects . Which brings to mind . If you had a deadly disease would stormlight kill the pathogens or simply make you a carrier ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, twenty second of the sun said: that is what I'm wondering . Its like when moash kills elohkar ,he leaves the knife in until the stormlight goes away. If your a knight radiant and someone poisons you would you start feeling the affects after you run out of stormlight ? . With shallan im pretty sure ( not certain) that she woke up with a hangover. I don't think the stormlight would somehow remove it ,unless you were lift and able to metabolize the poison directly into investiture . She had a hangover because she kept drinking and healing, then drinking and healing... All while trying not to take in too much stormlight to heal her hand. Cosmere healing focuses on the worst injuries more heavily, and the knife wound in her hand was most likely worse than the alcohol. If she had just healed and quite drinking, there wouldn't have been a hangover. As with most thing alcohol or Shallan related, she did it to herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twenty second of the sun Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 As I said I was not certain. I think my other point still stands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapata Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Most likely if the poison was more dangerous than you have stormlight for, it will still harm/kill you. Bloodmaking runs the same risk of not having enough healing to purge/negate the poison. Gold compounding heals probably any fatal injury or illness, but you could still run out. And if you drank one of Forton's posons? You're probably dead, because the investiture in the poison would resist the healing investiture. It would be significantly harder to heal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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