Listener Spren

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

Do we know any of the specific spren that listeners bond with?  i.e. a windrunner bonds with honor spren and warform bonds with ____ and envoyform bonds with ____.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Truthwatcher_17.5
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[+TheFoxQR]

In one of the interludes, it is mentioned that the Songs list hundreds of Forms.

I think they can bond any spren, (attracting said spren to bond woith is a different matter) so long as the spren isn't too sentient. It's... like their version of the bond can only support bonding to spren of up to a certain level of complexity.

Beyond that, you need a Nahel Bond to bond with the spren, but this requires higher cognitive capabilities on both ends.

Edited August 6, 2019 by TheFoxQR

[Karger he/him]

Creationspren are confirmed by the songs to make artform I do not belive we have confirmation of anything else.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Karger

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

32 minutes ago, TheFoxQR said:

In one of the interludes, it is mentioned that the Songs list hundreds of Forms.

I think they can bond any spren, (attracting said spren to bond woith is a different matter) so long as the spren isn't too sentient. It's... like their version of the bond can only support bonding to spren of up to a certain level of complexity.

Beyond that, you need a Nahel Bond to bond with the spren, but this requires higher cognitive capabilities on both ends.

Actually, according to a WoB (linked on the Coppermind's page for Singers) it says that Radiant-spren refuse to bond with Singers/Listeners because of actions they've done in the past (I imagine this refers to the False Desolation).

But then we have Venli... Who has a Voidspren (of some variety, idk if it was specified) and a Lightspren (AKA the Willshaper's Radiant-spren). So that's interesting. Was it mentioned if Timbre gave Venli any new physical features, or was she still using the Voidspren to maintain her current Form?

[+TheFoxQR]

Just now, Halyo_Alex said:

Actually, according to a WoB (linked on the Coppermind's page for Singers) it says that Radiant-spren refuse to bond with Singers/Listeners because of actions they've done in the past (I imagine this refers to the False Desolation).

But then we have Venli... Who has a Voidspren (of some variety, idk if it was specified) and a Lightspren (AKA the Willshaper's Radiant-spren). So that's interesting. Was it mentioned if Timbre gave Venli any new physical features, or was she still using the Voidspren to maintain her current Form?

That is my suspicion - that to attract and bond radiantspren singers need to be in some form beforehand. So, for example, Timbre was first attracted to Eshonai when she was in Warform (or maybe it goes even further back), but was stuck in the physical and went to Venli later.

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

Just now, TheFoxQR said:

That is my suspicion - that to attract and bond radiantspren singers need to be in some form beforehand. So, for example, Timbre was first attracted to Eshonai when she was in Warform (or maybe it goes even further back), but was stuck in the physical and went to Venli later.

That is a good point. But then what about those Forms would make Timbre be attracted to them? Maybe it's more of the personality and mental state, like with humans. If so, it makes sense that both Eshonai and Venli attracted a Lightspren, as the first/primary personality trait of a Willshaper is Resolute. The other trait is Builder, which is... kinda vauge, imo, but I think I get what it means. Regardless, it seems like both Eshonai and Venli were a good match for the definitive traits of Willshapers.

[+TheFoxQR]

4 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

That is a good point. But then what about those Forms would make Timbre be attracted to them? Maybe it's more of the personality and mental state, like with humans. If so, it makes sense that both Eshonai and Venli attracted a Lightspren, as the first/primary personality trait of a Willshaper is Resolute. The other trait is Builder, which is... kinda vauge, imo, but I think I get what it means. Regardless, it seems like both Eshonai and Venli were a good match for the definitive traits of Willshapers.

That is the thing, isn't it?

I've been wondering if the Radiantspren were originally Idealspren. So like, Syl and her kind could be leadershipspren, or the "urge to protect"-spren.

And just as a firespren is attracted to fire, or a painspren to pain, a Leadershipspren would be attracted to good examples of leadership. The Singers need specific forms to be able to perceive and be good forms of leadership, before they can attract Honorspren like Syl.

Similarly, Warform combined with Eshonai's own default personality and what she was accomplishing at the Shattered Plains was why she began attracting lightspren.

Edited August 6, 2019 by TheFoxQR

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

Just now, TheFoxQR said:

That is the thing, isn't it?

I've been wondering if the Radiantspren were originally Idealspren. So like, Syl and her kind could be leadershipspren.

And just as a firespren is attracted to fire, or a painspren to pain, a Leadershipspren would be attracted to good examples of leadership. The Singers need specific forms to be able to perceive and be good forms of leadership, before they can attract Honorspren like Syl.

Similarly, Warform combined with Eshonai's own default personality and what she was accomplishing at the Shattered Plains was why she began attracting lightspren.

That's an interesting hypothesis. Maybe before the humans came from Ashyn, and before the KR, the Listeners could have called them that? Or something similar. So for Radiant Listeners (obvs not the original title... or is it? idk) Anyway, for Radiant Listeners to be a thing, a normal Listener could bond a lesser spren that's related to the "Idealspren" they want to bond; windspren for Honorspren/Leaderspren, Creationspren for Cryptics, and so on. Actually, there might be some precedent for this, with these lesser spren being attracted to the Knight Radiants we have thus far. Shallan attracts Creationspren, Kaladin attracts Windspren (even in the CR where they're stupidly rare) and Dalinar attracts Gloryspren. What if this is because those lesser spren are like "hey, wait, I recognize that thing they're bonded to, I'm supposed to be there too!" but they can't find a Gemheart to inhabit or the Spiritweb isn't "incomplete" like a Listener's, so they just hang around nearby in a sort of confused yet attracted state (like a moth around a lamp).