Fullborn vs. 10th heightening vs. herald

[Pathfinder]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Hm Probably has the best chance of any Herald.  Ishar, Pailah, Kelek, Ash, and Taln would be in various stages of trouble.  She could still be hit by soothing.  I wonder if in the CR soothing is like waves.

I could see that potentially being possible. 

[cometaryorbit]

On 7/9/2019 at 2:56 PM, SwordNimiForPresident said:

@Pathfinder I can’t be bothered to read all of that. I got as far as your Vin at Kredik Shaw example. Vin wasn’t fueled by Preservation there, she was Preservation. She was fueled by Preservation when she killed Rashek. Huge difference.

Not exactly, not at the point when she explodes Kredik Shaw. At that point she is still in physical human form and using the basic Allomantic powers boosted to extreme levels - healing with "limitless pewter", exploding Kredik Shaw with a massive Steelpush. And the majority of the mists haven't yet been absorbed.

It's only when she absorbs the entirety of the mists and her physical body vanishes that she truly becomes Preservation and gets the broader Shardic abilities.

14 hours ago, Karger said:

Hm Probably has the best chance of any Herald.  Ishar, Pailah, Kelek, Ash, and Taln would be in various stages of trouble.  She could still be hit by soothing.  I wonder if in the CR soothing is like waves.

Soothing could be a distraction, at extreme levels, but it isn't really that powerful in combat. Vin uses a duralumin powered soothing as a distraction against one of Yomen's Allomancers set to follow her before she attacks, but that's about it.

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Not exactly, not at the point when she explodes Kredik Shaw. At that point she is still in physical human form and using the basic Allomantic powers boosted to extreme levels - healing with "limitless pewter", exploding Kredik Shaw with a massive Steelpush. And the majority of the mists haven't yet been absorbed.

At that point, Kelsier had passed Preservation to her. She had not yet fully assimilated the power, but she was Preservation.

[Pathfinder]

5 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Not exactly, not at the point when she explodes Kredik Shaw. At that point she is still in physical human form and using the basic Allomantic powers boosted to extreme levels - healing with "limitless pewter", exploding Kredik Shaw with a massive Steelpush. And the majority of the mists haven't yet been absorbed.

It's only when she absorbs the entirety of the mists and her physical body vanishes that she truly becomes Preservation and gets the broader Shardic abilities.

Yep yep. Vin is drawing on the mists, like she did back when she defeated the Lord Ruler. Brandon himself says it is the same exact thing. Hero of Ages Annotations corroborates this:

 

Brandon Sanderson

Vin Draws In All the Mist

Here we finally have Vin suck in the mists and use them to fuel her Allomancy completely. I began building this plot arc way back in book one, which ends with Vin drawing upon the mists to fight the Lord Ruler. It took me all the way until here to make good on that, though I still don't even explain how or why she was able to do it. Eventually I'd like to be able to do that, but we'll see. It's bigger than this trilogy. I have to leave some secrets for later.

I do want to mention that this scene of Vin blasting Kredik Shaw to pieces was quite fulfilling to write for some reason. It feels like the end of a series to me, with familiar places being torn down and old expectations being dismantled.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (April 13, 2010)

 

 

Brandon Sanderson

Drawing upon the Mists

Vin draws upon the mists here for the second time. I kind of wish I'd been able to make her do it in the second book somewhere, but I decided to back off on that plot in book two. The thing is, Vin drawing upon the mists is kind of deus ex machina, and I didn't want to make the entire series about that. It's a mystery to be explained, true, and was worked into the magic system from the beginning. But I can't deny that it feels like it comes out of nowhere.

So, having her use her ability to draw upon the mists here was an attempt to have that happen sometime other than a major climax moment, reminding the reader of what happened back in book one so we can begin to delve into what was happening and why.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (March 11, 2010)

 

 

Brandon Sanderson

Vin Versus the Inquisitors

Vin fights the Inquisitors, hoping to put herself in a situation where she can draw upon the mists. It's a reckless plan, but I hope it feels exactly like something Vin would do. She's tired of being manipulated; she knows the end is very near (less than a day away) and knows that she needs to do something. This is all she could come up with, and I think it's a good plan. (At least if you're Vin.) It's a final attempt to save the world or go out in a blaze, fighting down thirteen Inquisitors at once.

This is my favorite fight in the book. The previous ones are all too warlike. I prefer the beauty of a couple of Mistborn fighting in the rain and the mist, as opposed to the characters taking out hundreds of koloss. This fight between Vin and the Inquisitors is the kind of thing I developed Allomancy to do in the first place.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (April 6, 2010)

 

Finally a WoB connection the mists and stormlight:

 

Questioner

I'm going through Hero of Ages...again and I noticed...when Vin takes the power of Preservation into herself the descriptions remind me a lot of someone who has been Invested with Stormlight--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

--are those powers very similar--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

--in how they operate?

Brandon Sanderson

Ye-- Definitely some similarities. You will see a lot of mist in Stormlight if you are looking. So yeah.

Questioner

It like puffs out like mist.

Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016)

[not an Evil Librarian]

Is it just me, or is this debate going absolutely nowhere?

[cometaryorbit]

To me, the most interesting question is the various "Investiture power-drain" abilities, like larkins, Nightblood "feeding", and Chromium Allomancy. What's the limit on that? If that metal had been known in Era 1, could a Leecher have killed TLR by "accidentally-on-purpose" bumping into him in a public square and burning metal - then his Atiumminds' charge vanishes?

Leechers, at least, require physical contact, so a Fullborn who was paying attention could easily evade that. But there are other similar effects that don't - like the Primer Cube/allomantic grenade charged with Chromium Allomancy we see in Bands of Mourning.

There's got to be some limit - surely these sorts of effects can't be an automatic win against even the most powerful Investiture users, else Odium could just have used Larkins to eat the Heralds' Investiture-feed from Honor and win the Desolations trivially. Would a Larkin hooked up to that much investiture throw up or explode? What about a Leecher? Surely, if a Leecher had hit Vin when she was absorbing the mists, it wouldn't have destroyed the Shard of Preservation...

[Pathfinder]

8 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

To me, the most interesting question is the various "Investiture power-drain" abilities, like larkins, Nightblood "feeding", and Chromium Allomancy. What's the limit on that? If that metal had been known in Era 1, could a Leecher have killed TLR by "accidentally-on-purpose" bumping into him in a public square and burning metal - then his Atiumminds' charge vanishes?

Leechers, at least, require physical contact, so a Fullborn who was paying attention could easily evade that. But there are other similar effects that don't - like the Primer Cube/allomantic grenade charged with Chromium Allomancy we see in Bands of Mourning.

There's got to be some limit - surely these sorts of effects can't be an automatic win against even the most powerful Investiture users, else Odium could just have used Larkins to eat the Heralds' Investiture-feed from Honor and win the Desolations trivially. Would a Larkin hooked up to that much investiture throw up or explode? What about a Leecher? Surely, if a Leecher had hit Vin when she was absorbing the mists, it wouldn't have destroyed the Shard of Preservation...

So I think for those three different cases, could result in three different things. I pulled up a bunch of WoB regarding Leechers. A leecher has to have enough metal to leech the amount of investiture. So its not like a tiny bit gets rid of everything automatically no matter the amount. A little does do a lot, but for larger quantities, you will need to hold on, and have more chromium. So for the Lord Ruler, the leecher would need a lot of chromium and keep a sustained grip which would probably result in the leecher's death. Regarding Vin fueling her powers with the mists, I do not think there is enough chromium on Scadrial to destroy the Shard of Preservation lol. WoB below.

 

Kaymyth

I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both Invested and un-Invested metals in both their stomach and piercings.

Brandon Sanderson

What it boils down to is this:

1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off.

2) The non-Invested metals go before the Invested ones. He said that because Invested metals are harder to affect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds.

3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal.

ConQuest 46 (May 22, 2015)

 

Questioner (paraphrased)

If a Leecher was holding a Shardbearer and burning [chromium], would the Shardbearer be able to summon their Blade?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No.

Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017)

 

 

Questioner

Aluminum, when you burn aluminum, does it actually destroy the metals or just take away their power?

Brandon Sanderson

It destroys the metals.

Questioner

Same with chromium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Questioner

So it actually gets rid of the metals?

Brandon Sanderson

It actually trans--  It does a--  matter, energy, investiture are the same things in the cosmere.  You have some sort of transfer happening relating to those things.

Questioner

The question sort of relates to metal poisoning--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, you would not get metal poisoning after that.

Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016)

 

 

Regarding Larkins, I think that depends on two things. First, since Larkins are living things, I believe they can become full, so I would imagine there is a limit on how much investiture they could eat. After eating the voidbringer's investiture, Rysn's Larkin seemed contently full. Now there was confirmation that a Larkin grows up into the great shell laceryn. So whether or not the laceryn keeps the investiture eating properties of a larkin when it grows up, and if that increases how much it could eat, I do not know. 

 

Nightblood is something else entirely. When he has eaten a lot of investiture and then sheathed, he does seem sluggish and full, but I do not know if there is a limit to his investiture consumption. When asked would nightblood devour a Shard, Brandon tends to dodge the question, stating things like the mists would avoid nightblood, or Shards are afraid of nightblood. There is a WoB regarding Nightblood being plunged into the Elantris form of Aon Rao could result in the destruction of the city, so take that as you will. 

[Karger he/him]

23 hours ago, not an Evil Librarian said:

Is it just me, or is this debate going absolutely nowhere?

Its just you.  We are clearly making vital progress that could change our understanding the universe!

On 7/11/2019 at 5:13 AM, cometaryorbit said:

Soothing could be a distraction, at extreme levels, but it isn't really that powerful in combat. Vin uses a duralumin powered soothing as a distraction against one of Yomen's Allomancers set to follow her before she attacks, but that's about it.

Vin is not TLR.  A d soothing from him is going to be much much much nastier.

Can you find this for me?

8 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Now there was confirmation that a Larkin grows up into the great shell laceryn

Edited July 12, 2019 by Karger

[Pathfinder]

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Vin is not TLR.  A d soothing from him is going to be much much much nastier.

Although I agreed it is possible that soothing could cause ripples in the cognitive realm, soothing and rioting just deadens or enflames emotions. It is not mind control. So I am not sure how that would stop Battar from doing what I proposed. 

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Can you find this for me?

So this WoB implies it, but the second one (which is hard to find, and for some reason the link does not work for me, so I pasted it, as well as linked the thread) is the "smoking gun".

 

AhoyMatey (paraphrased)

Are larkin and lanceryn one and the same?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There’s a little bit more than just [being] one and the same, but in some ways they are.

Words of Radiance Seattle signing (March 8, 2014)

 

 

Larkin and lanceryn
1. In WoK, Jasnah's mention of this lanceryn befuddled me a lot. We know that it is a kind of greatshell with gemhearts native to Aimia, but except this, we know nothing. The translator interpreted it as "lance-beast". I suspect he got it inspired because "lanceryn" is similar to "lance", which is a kind of weapon. I'd like to know whether this name origins from "lance" or not. If not, could you simply describe how this creature actually looks like, so I can come up with a new term? (I'm not sure if the former translator has ever contacted you.)
2. So larkins are more like flying insects? I imagine they are a mixture of crab (or any crustacean), wasp and little dragon. Is that okay? (Do larkins really have reddish/brown crusts?)

Peter

The lanceryn and larkin are two names for the same creature. When it says lanceryn, it’s definitely referring only to the enormous greatshell version that is believed to be extinct. The name is not related to “lance”…I think. The small larkin can be considered the cremling/larva version of the lanceryn.

 

[First Witness]

Everyone can kill everyone if you use an Aluminium Hemalurgy Spike!

With that in mind, I choose "Fullborn."  We really need to see Susebron open up and doooo stuff.   I do not believe that Heralds are on the level of Susebron or TLR.