Inconsistencies in WoR

[Long try]

Hello there,

1st, let me make clear of the situation: I've just finished WoR less than a week ago. It took me more than a month to read, so some of my memories are fresh & accurate while some may not. tWoK is even farther. Aside from those 2 books, I'm totally a newbie in the Cosmere, not having known about Brandon's work before. So please spare me if you find some stupidity and kindly enlighten me, will you? 

Now I'll dive into the inconsistent parts, or rather, some mistakes:

1. This one carries on from tWoK: the bridges. I can't possibly imagine any wooden structure that can be carried on men's shoulder that is also durable for armies to march on and most importantly, able to be slid across a chasm. Halfway through it, gravity will just not agree with you anymore. The fact that there's no pictures in the 2 books proves that even the artists can't handle this task.

2. The failed assassination at the palace. Szeth was so determined to kill Kaladin the returning Radiant during their Everstorm encounter, why did he chicken out when there was just hint of it the 1st time? Remember, he lived by the rules/orders and died by them, too. In fact, he did it so hardcore that he's revived just for that reason. At the palace, his order was to kill Dalinar. He always prepare lots of spheres, after being pushed out of the hole he could just leave Kaladin there, fly up & finish the easy job.

3. On that same vein, his method of ending Dalinar was questionable, too. The old guy couldn't keep up with him anymore. Instead of using the Blade, he felt the need to reach out even further with his hand and lash Dalinar up?? Woah, so convenient for a dramatic rescue by a Windrunner, lol.

4. The epic 1v4. Lighteyes or dark, the spectators there were not blind. The spectacle of an unarmed normal guy dancing around 2 Plates and finish 3 of them is not something anyone can miss. Even if some of them hate darkeyes, they couldn't just ignore him. It's like during the civil war, you were a Southern officer witnessing someone singlehandedly charge up and obliterate a company AND a squadron of your own side (it was clearly written in the book that each Shardbearer equals 100 men or more). Any other emotions aside, a feeling of awe is a must. What I consider making sense is for the crowd to rumble at every move of Kaladin and burst into a thunder after team Adolin won. The series of actions and reactions afterwards by everyone didn't.

5. The fall. There were a Lightweaver and an injured soldier without any special abilities. What saved them?

6. Shallan's curiosity. Near the beginning of the book, the author described that special 'scholar mind' that distracted Jasnah, and then Shallan, from concentrating on some important tasks at hand. Now, during the great march, I'm sure that itself was an exhibition. Never before in her life Shallan had been with an army. Also, never before there had been such a huge army of tens of thousands of people doing such a long campaign. And... there's almost no description of it. I feel like this is a part where the book is poorly rushed. Tons of questions could be raised. Like, how did they poo? 

7. Sadeas' utter inanity. In every point of view from tWoK to WoR, Sadeas was portrayed to be an eel, or an old fox whose intelligence can topple any position. In other words, brain with brawn to boost. Well, some of his actions put a big question over that. Earlier, he witnessed a former slave of his, who survived his highstorm decree, ed him up and saved Dalinar's chullskin, was valuable enough the old Kholin sacrificed his Blade, now ed him up again by overpowering his Shard team. Yet, all of his thoughts were about Adolin who 'defeated' 4 guys??? WTF? And how in the Roshar could he think Adolin would be 1 of his subordinates after Sadeas killed his dad and ruled Alethkar? What's wrong with him when he was alone in the hallway and saw the man who several times had openly bared his threat to kill him in the most gruesome ways, and he walked up to Adolin only to insult him some more?? Holy storms, I think Sadeas' stupidity is beyond measurement. This is one HUGE inconsistency right here.

OK, that's all I can think of for now. Maybe those are why I have this feeling that WoR is somehow inferior to tWoK, but before I wrote them out I can't really pinpoint why... What do you think?

[Karger he/him]

6 minutes ago, Long try said:

1. This one carries on from tWoK: the bridges. I can't possibly imagine any wooden structure that can be carried on men's shoulder that is also durable for armies to march on and most importantly, able to be slid across a chasm. Halfway through it, gravity will just not agree with you anymore. The fact that there's no pictures in the 2 books proves that even the artists can't handle this task.

On earth you would be correct.  However on Roshar you are operating at a reduced gravity so it does in fact work.  I belive Sanderson editor and friend Peter actually did the math on this.  The reduced gravity is also one of the reasons Roshar has so much megafuna

8 minutes ago, Long try said:

2. The failed assassination at the palace. Szeth was so determined to kill Kaladin the returning Radiant during their Everstorm encounter, why did he chicken out when there was just hint of it the 1st time? Remember, he lived by the rules/orders and died by them, too. In fact, he did it so hardcore that he's revived just for that reason. At the palace, his order was to kill Dalinar. He always prepare lots of spheres, after being pushed out of the hole he could just leave Kaladin there, fly up & finish the easy job.

The reason Szeth follows orders is because it his his punishment for a spesific crime.  Kaladin is living proof that Szeth was actually innocent of the crime indicating that he no longer has to follow orders and in fact that the foundations of his belief system is incorrect.  He is not running from physical danger but from moral and spiritual ones.

10 minutes ago, Long try said:

3. On that same vein, his method of ending Dalinar was questionable, too. The old guy couldn't keep up with him anymore. Instead of using the Blade, he felt the need to reach out even further with his hand and lash Dalinar up?? Woah, so convenient for a dramatic rescue by a Windrunner, lol.

He did not know that Kaladin was a windrunner at the time.  In fact he had concluded that Kaladin had a blade for regrowth and he also knew Kaladin was not present.  Yes it was easier for Kaladin to rescue him but Szeth had no idea that he would arrive in time.  Also just touching Dalinar might have been easier then stabbing him for combat reasons.

13 minutes ago, Long try said:

on. The series of actions and reactions afterwards by everyone didn't.

The crowd is mostly Lighteyes who train themselves not to react.  I do see where you are coming from but they might have just been too shocked by Kaladin to say anything.

14 minutes ago, Long try said:

5. The fall. There were a Lightweaver and a injured soldier without any special abilities. What saved them?

Stormlgiht can save any Radiant from fall damage and Kaladin did get a bit of stormlight at the end. 

 

 

[QuantumSpren]

I'll try to do at least a few of these points.

1. Gravity on Roshar is about 0.7 the gravity of the Earth, so that will make a difference. Also the chasms are not that wide seeing as parshendi and shardbearers can jump them.

2. The entire reason that he was truthless was because he "falsely" insisted that the last desolation was coming, and radiants returning are a sign of that, so that put his whole worldview into question.

3. Dalinar was slowing however he was still doing a remarkable job of keeping them honorblade away from himself, so Szeth probably thought that a lashing which just needed a brush of ones fingers instead of a killing blow would be faster and easier.

4. To the crowd it was still somebody defeating impossible odds, everyone likes the underdog winning.

5. The remarkable healing abilities of a radiant are what saved them. Shallan quickly healed from any damage she received with stormlight and kaladin was given stormlight through his degrading bond with syl.

Edited June 24, 2019 by QuantumSpren
Whoops karger covered the points as I was still writing.

[Karger he/him]

16 minutes ago, Long try said:

6. Shallan's curiosity. Near the beginning of the book, the author described that special 'scholar mind' that distracted Jasnah, and then Shallan, from concentrating on some important tasks at hand. Now, during the great march, I'm sure that itself was an exhibition. Never before in her life Shallan had been with an army. Also, never before there had been such a huge army of tens of thousands of people doing such a long campaign. And... there's almost no description of it. I feel like this is a part where the book is poorly rushed. Tons of questions could be raised. Like, how did they poo? 

Shallan has the fate of the world on her mind.  Excuse her for not being interested in the army around her.

17 minutes ago, Long try said:

7. Sadeas' utter inanity. In every POV from tWoK to WoR, Sadeas was portrayed to be an eel, or an old fox whose intelligence can topple any position. In other words, brain with brawn to boost. Well, some of his actions put a big question over that. Earlier, he witnessed a former slave of his, who survived his highstorm decree, stormed him up and saved Dalinar's chull, was valuable enough the old Kholin sacrificed his Oathbringer, now stormed him up again by overpowering his Shard team. Yet, all of his thoughts were about Adolin who 'defeated' 4 guys??? WTF? And how in the Roshar could he think Adolin would be 1 of his subordinate after Sadeas killed his dad and ruled Alethkar? What's wrong with him when he was alone in the hallway and saw the man who several times has openly bared his thread to kill him in the most gruesome ways, and he walked up to Adolin only to insult him some more?? Holy storms, I think Sadeas' stupidity is beyond measurement. This is one HUGE inconsistency right here.

Sadeas is abnormally aggressive even for himself throughout both books.  His disregaurd of Kaladin comes through good old prejudice that clouds his judgement.  He did not actually think Adolin would be a subordinate he was likely just trying to rile him up and get him to do something stupid.  Sadeas was foolish to rely on Adolin's restraint but even Adolin himself was surprised by his own reaction. 

[KevinTheHerdazian he/him]

If you have ever seen a sword duel, 4 on 1. Then the 1 looks spectacular. Also when kaladin rushed in and distracted them, the book says Adolin went for the offensive and was a blur of sweeps and jabs. So just think of a random guy drop kick one of the duelers, its an extremely funny picture in my head, then his disadvantage is only 3 on 1. Either way, Adolin even surviving that long with 4 people attacking him, he must have been a sight to behold.

[Pathfinder]

56 minutes ago, Long try said:

Hello there,

1st, let me make clear of the situation: I've just finished WoR less than a week ago. It took me more than a month to read, so some of my memories are fresh & accurate while some may not. tWoK is even farther. Aside from those 2 books, I'm totally a newbie in the Cosmere, not having known about Brandon's work before. So please spare me if you find some stupidity and kindly enlighten me, will you? 

Now I'll dive into the inconsistent parts, or rather, some mistakes:

1. This one carries on from tWoK: the bridges. I can't possibly imagine any wooden structure that can be carried on men's shoulder that is also durable for armies to march on and most importantly, able to be slid across a chasm. Halfway through it, gravity will just not agree with you anymore. The fact that there's no pictures in the 2 books proves that even the artists can't handle this task.

2. The failed assassination at the palace. Szeth was so determined to kill Kaladin the returning Radiant during their Everstorm encounter, why did he chicken out when there was just hint of it the 1st time? Remember, he lived by the rules/orders and died by them, too. In fact, he did it so hardcore that he's revived just for that reason. At the palace, his order was to kill Dalinar. He always prepare lots of spheres, after being pushed out of the hole he could just leave Kaladin there, fly up & finish the easy job.

3. On that same vein, his method of ending Dalinar was questionable, too. The old guy couldn't keep up with him anymore. Instead of using the Blade, he felt the need to reach out even further with his hand and lash Dalinar up?? Woah, so convenient for a dramatic rescue by a Windrunner, lol.

4. The epic 1v4. Lighteyes or dark, the spectators there were not blind. The spectacle of an unarmed normal guy dancing around 2 Plates and finish 3 of them is not something anyone can miss. Even if some of them hate darkeyes, they couldn't just ignore him. It's like during the civil war, you were a Southern officer witnessing a person singlehandedly charge up and obliterate a company AND a squadron of your own side (it was clearly written in the book that each Shardbearer equals 100 men or more). Any other emotions aside, a feeling of awe is a must. What I consider making sense is for the crowd to rumble at every move of Kaladin and burst into a thunder after team Adolin won. The series of actions and reactions afterwards by everyone didn't.

5. The fall. There were a Lightweaver and an injured soldier without any special abilities. What saved them?

@Karger already answered the above very well so I will just cover the below two

Quote

6. Shallan's curiosity. Near the beginning of the book, the author described that special 'scholar mind' that distracted Jasnah, and then Shallan, from concentrating on some important tasks at hand. Now, during the great march, I'm sure that itself was an exhibition. Never before in her life Shallan had been with an army. Also, never before there had been such a huge army of tens of thousands of people doing such a long campaign. And... there's almost no description of it. I feel like this is a part where the book is poorly rushed. Tons of questions could be raised. Like, how did they poo? 

They had soulcasters. There was mention earlier in the novel about latrines that would be built out of the rock with slopping sides so the excrement would pool at the end of the latrine. A soulcaster would then come occasionally and soulcast it to smoke. An army on the move would probably soulcast a latrine, and then soulcast away the excrement. So it was already covered, and I do not see it being necessary to discuss during a climatic moment where Shallan is trying to research the location of the city. As to the uniqueness of the scenario, from what I recall, it was not unique. Armies that size were used all the time during the Kholins coming to power. The only difference is on the shattered plains they didn't do it because Dalinar thought at the time laying a siege would make more sense. The chasmfiends gemhearts were not known to be a thing, so he figured they could practically starve them out. Moving a large army across the shattered plains would leave it vulnerable to the parshendi outflanking them via their jumping. So siege warfare is where they went and stuck with. So the novelty was that Dalinar decided it was time to take the fight to them. But just about any question you could have regarding the army moving towards the center I believe has already been answered in Way of Kings and Words of Radiance. if you like you can list your additional questions, and I will do my best to answer them and quote where they are answered in the books. 

Quote

7. Sadeas' utter inanity. In every point of view from tWoK to WoR, Sadeas was portrayed to be an eel, or an old fox whose intelligence can topple any position. In other words, brain with brawn to boost. Well, some of his actions put a big question over that. Earlier, he witnessed a former slave of his, who survived his highstorm decree, ed him up and saved Dalinar's chullskin, was valuable enough the old Kholin sacrificed his Blade, now ed him up again by overpowering his Shard team. Yet, all of his thoughts were about Adolin who 'defeated' 4 guys??? WTF? And how in the Roshar could he think Adolin would be 1 of his subordinates after Sadeas killed his dad and ruled Alethkar? What's wrong with him when he was alone in the hallway and saw the man who several times had openly bared his threat to kill him in the most gruesome ways, and he walked up to Adolin only to insult him some more?? Holy storms, I think Sadeas' stupidity is beyond measurement. This is one HUGE inconsistency right here.

OK, that's all I can think of for now. Maybe those are why I have this feeling that WoR is somehow inferior to tWoK, but before I wrote them out I can't really pinpoint why... What do you think?

True Kaladin survived the highstorm, but he did not know there was any "magical reason". It was just some dark eyed slave that is persistent. It is up to his subordinates to solve the problem, and if they do not, they should be punished. Which is exactly what he did to the light eyes that presided over Kaladin and Gaz. Kaladin kept his stormlight use low in the daylight so no one noticed, and for a good chunk of it Kaladin primarily kept the shardbearer distracted so Adolin could deal with the others. So it "appears" to be Adolin that won the overwhelming duel, not Kaladin. Sadeas always poked and prodded Adolin. He just didn't expect that Adolin had it in him and miscalculated. 

[cfphelps he/him]

Regarding Sadeas,  

Adolin even comments to himself at one point when Sadeas is trying to rile him up that Alethi society is messed up in that Sadeas can abandon them at the tower and pretend it didn't happen and the rest of the court goes along with it, but any slights in person must be dealt with in the proper way. So I think he didn't expect Adolin to snap so spontaneously and break social convention and the law. 

Regarding Adolin joining him, I think as has already been said that he was just trying to get Adolin angry, but also it goes back to the Alethi ideal of might makes right and aggressively fighting for what you want. He sees Adolin as a Dalinar that isn't as well controlled, but he doesn't really know how honorable he is, per se. So it's possible that in Sadeas mind, with Dalinar out of the way, Adolin would fall in with him just to keep Alethekar united and gain power, something he himself did with Gavilar and Dalinar when they were uniting the kingdom. 

 

Regarding his thoughts on Kaladin. For the duel Kaladin did have to go mostly on the defensive, so he would be seen as mostly a distraction allowing Adolin to finish the other opponents. Very talented, Yes, but if he's not actually defeating the other duelist per se, the uninformed (about Stormlight) observers might just see him using cheap tricks, similar to how Adolin was looked down upon for not sticking with standard dueling convention and just rushing in and defeating his first opponent. 

That plus pain old prejudice of his entire life being taught that darkeyes are lesser and it's not surprising that most people, Sadeas included, saw the duel as primarily Adolin's accomplishment. 

Also I believe it was some of Adolin's earlier duels where we get Sadeas's PoV where he realizes how good Adolin is to just barely win while looking like he's struggling. I think on the 4v1 duel he is more worried about his gambit paying off and then leaving before he can be pinned down on a duel once Adolin challenges him. 

Kaladin surviving the high storm strung up is also probably something that should of note to him, but Kal wasn't really in his radar at that point. Plus he's seen Dalinar go out in storms, and Kaladin mentions sheltering from storms while out with the army, so while being strung up during one is very likely a death sentence, surviving probably isn't so unlikely that he would start to suspect magical powers that most of the world believes to be either exaggerated myth or gone forever. 

Even once many of these things start to happen, it's probably a lot lower on his radar than worrying about his plots to take over the kingdom. Once it becomes obvious there's really nothing he can do about it anyway. 

[Long try]

On 6/24/2019 at 10:39 PM, Karger said:

The reason Szeth follows orders is because it his his punishment for a spesific crime.  Kaladin is living proof that Szeth was actually innocent of the crime indicating that he no longer has to follow orders and in fact that the foundations of his belief system is incorrect.  He is not running from physical danger but from moral and spiritual ones.

Well, then shouldn't Szeth be happy about this revelation? Toward the end of the Everstorm fight, even though he admitted the truth, he still wanted to kill Kaladin really bad. How about stopping & shaking hands with Kal, and ask him for more information so he'd be truly free from the curses?

On 6/24/2019 at 10:42 PM, QuantumSpren said:

5. The remarkable healing abilities of a radiant are what saved them. Shallan quickly healed from any damage she received with stormlight and kaladin was given stormlight through his degrading bond with syl.

From every mention in the 1st 2 books, it worked in a way that the damage is done 1st and the repairing comes after. No shielding effect. So it's easy to conclude that if someone is dead fast then there's no chance to heal. Now, we remember that Adolin expected to kill a full Shardbearer just by pushing her down the chasm. There's no indication of the chasm's height where Eshonai fell & where the pair fell. By just the pictures of the Plains, I assume that they're roughly the same height.

OTOH, Kal's bond with Syl was put on hold at that time. Right before & after the incident, he did try really hard to breathe in but to no avail. There's no reason to believe there was Light for him. 

On 6/24/2019 at 10:56 PM, KevinTheHerdazian said:

So just think of a random guy drop kick one of the duelers, its an extremely funny picture in my head

Welp, I can't really counter this argument, lol

 

On 6/24/2019 at 10:57 PM, Pathfinder said:

The only difference is on the shattered plains they didn't do it because Dalinar thought at the time laying a siege would make more sense. The chasmfiends gemhearts were not known to be a thing, so he figured they could practically starve them out.

This one makes sense! Now that you mentioned it, everything can be solved by the deus-ex word "soulcast". I always find it funny to imagine the giant black canvas covering the soulcaster company moves slowly to toward the soulcasted latrines filled up with excrement, then opens up, swallows the structures, and closes trapping all the incredible smells within. After a minute, it's like BAM! and a huge column of smoke rises up from inside the canvas. Then it moves away, and soldiers can only see a bare ground where their latrine last night were. My thought is that they guess the weird canvas bring it with them.

After some hours and some marching, it's time for lunch! Now the monster canvas march out again to the center of the 3 armies. 3 battalions of runners with big pots and pans come near, submit their things to some weird people in robes. They receive them and disappear into the canvas. Then BAM!, they return outside, lumbering with pots full of food, give those to the runners and get more empty ones. These runners then spread out to distribute the meals to the army, meanwhile more BAMs! continue to pop out from the canvas. Well, after seeing what happened in the morning, I can only wonder what the soldiers think where their food come from.

On 6/24/2019 at 10:57 PM, Pathfinder said:

Which is exactly what he did to the light eyes that presided over Kaladin and Gaz. Kaladin kept his stormlight use low in the daylight so no one noticed, and for a good chunk of it Kaladin primarily kept the shardbearer distracted so Adolin could deal with the others. So it "appears" to be Adolin that won the overwhelming duel, not Kaladin. Sadeas always poked and prodded Adolin.

While this, again, makes lots of sense, it also proves Sadeas' stupidity.

 

23 hours ago, cfphelps said:

Very talented, Yes, but if he's not actually defeating the other duelist per se, the uninformed (about Stormlight) observers might just see him using cheap tricks, similar to how Adolin was looked down upon for not sticking with standard dueling convention and just rushing in and defeating his first opponent.

That's another good point. I don't really know Alethi, but I assume they have physiology very similar to humans. If that's true, then cheap trick or not, I'd still be so impressed. Let's imagine those shardbearers as very, very fat sumo with katana. If I ever saw a 1v4 match, it'd be quite a display. But then, suddenly a tiny, lean sumo with a stick jumps in and draws 2 or 3 big guys out, then somehow manages to survive... Eventually he loses his stick, but then he kicks a fat sumo away!? This new scene is so novel I'd not pay much attention to the other 1v1 or occasionally 1v2 fight of "Adolin-kun" anymore. You know, simple human psychology  

Oh, I have some more questions:

8. The unmasking of Amaram. Kaladin wasn't supposed to be able to appear there, being injured & exhausted after the fall. Then Dalinar led him to Amaram and the story happened as it was. Did Dalinar decide to do it on the fly?

9. Szeth's source of Light. Coppermind says spheres go dun after a week. It's been 2 weeks into the Weeping. WoR also states that even the most valued spheres (emerald broams?) were barely visible at that moment. In every assassination, we're told that Szeth used spheres. This time what powered him? He couldn't carry those big, rough stones like inside the army lanterns because his body would bloat like a hippo, not to mention his clothes can't carry them and they'd hinder his movements so much.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Long try

[Karger he/him]

Just now, Long try said:

Well, then shouldn't Szeth be happy about this revelation? Toward the end of the Everstorm fight, even though he admitted the truth, he still wanted to kill Kaladin really bad.

If his punishment was in error then the entire foundation of his belief system is flawed.  Yes that means that he is no longer punished but it also means that if he had been a bit smarter he would have been able to prevent countless wars and death.  This is the kind of revelation that would leave anyone confused and a little crazy.  Also Szeth lets Kaladin kill him once he realizes that Kaladin is right.

3 minutes ago, Long try said:

From every mention in the 1st 2 books, it worked in a way that the damage is done 1st and the repairing comes after. No shielding effect. So it's easy to conclude that if someone is dead fast then there's no chance to heal. Now, we remember that Adolin expected to kill a full Shardbearer just by pushing her down the chasm. There's no indication of the chasm's height where Eshonai fell & where the pair fell. By just the pictures of the Plains, I assume that they're roughly the same height.

OTOH, Kal's bond with Syl was put on hold at that time. Right before & after the incident, he did try really hard to breathe in but to no avail. There's no reason to believe there was Light for him. 

Kaladin managed to fall 40 feat while testing his abilities without mastering the lashings yet.  This indicates that stormlight allows you to survive blunt force trauma without damage.  Kaladin also falls with Szeth without lashing himself and survives.  Kaladin's bond with Syl is weakening but it does not compleatly die until he falls and Syl sacrifices herself to give him that last bit of stormlight(he herd her screams when he killed her).

 

7 minutes ago, Long try said:

While this, again, makes lots of sense, it also proves Sadeas' stupidity.

More like his recklessness.  Remember Sadeas is killing hundreads of Parshendi every few days.  His most aggressive and reckless tendencies are at the forefront.

9 minutes ago, Long try said:

8. The unmasking of Amaram. Kaladin wasn't supposed to be able to appear there, being injured & exhausted after the fall. Then Dalinar led him to Amaram and the story happened as it was. Did Dalinar decide to do it on the fly?

Dalinar had planned on doing something similar for some time before then.  Kaladin's appearance just made a good opportunity.  Remember he bonded the blade in secret and then left it for Ameram to find as a test of his honor.  He new for a fact that Ameram had failed the test so he chose a good opportunity to tell him that he new.  He chose that exact moment because Kaladin was present(giving Amaram's moral compass time to prod at him) and because it was a public venue so Ameram could not spin the encounter to his advantage latter(there were to many witnesses).

13 minutes ago, Long try said:

9. Szeth's source of Light. Coppermind says spheres go dun after a week. It's been 2 weeks into the Weeping. WoR also states that even the most valued spheres (emerald broams?) were barely visible at that moment. In every assassination, we're told that Szeth used spheres. This time what powered him? He couldn't carry those big, rough stones like inside the army lanterns because his body would bloat like a hippo, not to mention his clothes can't carry them and they'd hinder his movements so much.

There are even larger gemstones that hold a charge for even longer(they are just not used as currency).  A surgebinder can move stormlgiht between gemstones.  So Szeth could have gotten a huge gemestone(like the gemhearts from the casmerefiends for example) and tranfered some it if's stormlight into a smaller gemstone for convenience.  Also a week is more of an average.  Some gemstones hold for a bit longer.

[Pathfinder]

1 hour ago, Long try said:

Well, then shouldn't Szeth be happy about this revelation? Toward the end of the Everstorm fight, even though he admitted the truth, he still wanted to kill Kaladin really bad. How about stopping & shaking hands with Kal, and ask him for more information so he'd be truly free from the curses?

Karger answers this pretty well already, but I just have one more thing to add. Szeth hating killing, but felt forced to because of the oathstone. If the Shamanate is wrong, then all the murders Szeth did, were by his own hand, and laid at his own feet. That is why he ultimately let Kaladin kill him. He owned up to responsibility for all the deaths he caused. That is also why he was upset Nale revived him, and by extension why he now tries to atone for his actions. 

Quote

From every mention in the 1st 2 books, it worked in a way that the damage is done 1st and the repairing comes after. No shielding effect. So it's easy to conclude that if someone is dead fast then there's no chance to heal. Now, we remember that Adolin expected to kill a full Shardbearer just by pushing her down the chasm. There's no indication of the chasm's height where Eshonai fell & where the pair fell. By just the pictures of the Plains, I assume that they're roughly the same height.

OTOH, Kal's bond with Syl was put on hold at that time. Right before & after the incident, he did try really hard to breathe in but to no avail. There's no reason to believe there was Light for him. 

Stormlight continually heals while you hold it.

Oathbringer spoilers

Spoiler

Dalinar stood impaled by a sword, while talking to the holder. He was crushed by a boulder and healed from it. Renarin was crushed by a thunderclast's hand and healed from it.

Edgedancer spoilers

Spoiler

Nale mentions to Lift that in order to kill her, he will need to leave the shardblade in her for a sustained time for her to die due to stormlight healing.

Oathbringer spoilers

Spoiler

Moash had to hold the spear in Elhokar for an extended time to prevent Elhokar from healing.

So the idea would be their bodies would hit the ground, and as soon as damage was done, the stormlight was already actively healing them. As Kaladin falls into the chasm, it notes he forced his bond with Syl resulting in her screaming in pain. So he was able to use stormlight in that moment, but after that the bond completely left him. 

Quote

This one makes sense! Now that you mentioned it, everything can be solved by the deus-ex word "soulcast". I always find it funny to imagine the giant black canvas covering the soulcaster company moves slowly to toward the soulcasted latrines filled up with excrement, then opens up, swallows the structures, and closes trapping all the incredible smells within. After a minute, it's like BAM! and a huge column of smoke rises up from inside the canvas. Then it moves away, and soldiers can only see a bare ground where their latrine last night were. My thought is that they guess the weird canvas bring it with them.

After some hours and some marching, it's time for lunch! Now the monster canvas march out again to the center of the 3 armies. 3 battalions of runners with big pots and pans come near, submit their things to some weird people in robes. They receive them and disappear into the canvas. Then BAM!, they return outside, lumbering with pots full of food, give those to the runners and get more empty ones. These runners then spread out to distribute the meals to the army, meanwhile more BAMs! continue to pop out from the canvas. Well, after seeing what happened in the morning, I can only wonder what the soldiers think where their food come from.

Well personally I wouldn't call it a deus-ex machina considering there are very real costs to the people who soulcast, and what can be soulcasted via the fabrial is relatively limited in scope, and access. Now having said that, it is commented throughout the novels how soulcasting completely changed how warfare was done on Roshar. Armies could move far faster because there was no need to wait on supply lines, or guard them in transit. Whole cultural foods arose from finding ways to make soulcast food more edible (herdazian chouta if I recall the name correctly). Glad to help 

Quote

While this, again, makes lots of sense, it also proves Sadeas' stupidity.

Lol never said Sadeas was infallible. 

Quote

That's another good point. I don't really know Alethi, but I assume they have physiology very similar to humans. If that's true, then cheap trick or not, I'd still be so impressed. Let's imagine those shardbearers as very, very fat sumo with katana. If I ever saw a 1v4 match, it'd be quite a display. But then, suddenly a tiny, lean sumo with a stick jumps in and draws 2 or 3 big guys out, then somehow manages to survive... Eventually he loses his stick, but then he kicks a fat sumo away!? This new scene is so novel I'd not pay much attention to the other 1v1 or occasionally 1v2 fight of "Adolin-kun" anymore. You know, simple human psychology  

I see where you are coming from. All I can really say is the novel said that Kaladin kept his stormlight from being visible, and although it is noteworthy that he was able to avoid strikes from full shardbearers, Kaladin himself technically didn't land any "big" hits. So at least with the lighteyes, their eyes were focused on Adolin. 

Quote

Oh, I have some more questions:

8. The unmasking of Amaram. Kaladin wasn't supposed to be able to appear there, being injured & exhausted after the fall. Then Dalinar led him to Amaram and the story happened as it was. Did Dalinar decide to do it on the fly?

I do not believe so due to the level of pre-planning required to ambush Amaram. I believe Dalinar had laid the trap, and gathered the info in the background before Kaladin disappeared in the chasm. Dalinar then finished gathering the information while Kaladin was missing. Dalinar said at least he chose to do what he did when he did it, because they were about to leave for the center of the shattered plains if I recall correctly, and he wanted it resolved before they left. (I just checked and I was right, it was just before they were going to leave for the center of the shattered plains.) So I would imagine he wouldn't want a traitor behind his back in the middle of a war zone. 

Quote

9. Szeth's source of Light. Coppermind says spheres go dun after a week. It's been 2 weeks into the Weeping. WoR also states that even the most valued spheres (emerald broams?) were barely visible at that moment. In every assassination, we're told that Szeth used spheres. This time what powered him? He couldn't carry those big, rough stones like inside the army lanterns because his body would bloat like a hippo, not to mention his clothes can't carry them and they'd hinder his movements so much.

If I recall correctly, Szeth mentions in Way of Kings or Words of Radiance that Urithiru for some reason causes the gemstones to lose stormlight slower so he keeps a cache there to grab as needed.

Oathbringer (spoilers below)

Spoiler

I believe this is then confirmed when they all set up shop at Urithiru. They are low on stormlight and using more than they have, but it does last longer in the gemstones somehow that they do not know why yet. 

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Karger he/him]

21 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Stormlight

He has not read Oathbringer yet delete this.

 

[Pathfinder]

9 minutes ago, Karger said:

He has not read Oathbringer yet delete this.

 

edited to account for spoilers. 

[QuantumSpren]

 

1 hour ago, Long try said:

Well, then shouldn't Szeth be happy about this revelation? Toward the end of the Everstorm fight, even though he admitted the truth, he still wanted to kill Kaladin really bad. How about stopping & shaking hands with Kal, and ask him for more information so he'd be truly free from the curses?

From every mention in the 1st 2 books, it worked in a way that the damage is done 1st and the repairing comes after. No shielding effect. So it's easy to conclude that if someone is dead fast then there's no chance to heal. Now, we remember that Adolin expected to kill a full Shardbearer just by pushing her down the chasm. There's no indication of the chasm's height where Eshonai fell & where the pair fell. By just the pictures of the Plains, I assume that they're roughly the same height.

OTOH, Kal's bond with Syl was put on hold at that time. Right before & after the incident, he did try really hard to breathe in but to no avail. There's no reason to believe there was Light for him. 

Welp, I can't really counter this argument, lol

 

This one makes sense! Now that you mentioned it, everything can be solved by the deus-ex word "soulcast". I always find it funny to imagine the giant black canvas covering the soulcaster company moves slowly to toward the soulcasted latrines filled up with excrement, then opens up, swallows the structures, and closes trapping all the incredible smells within. After a minute, it's like BAM! and a huge column of smoke rises up from inside the canvas. Then it moves away, and soldiers can only see a bare ground where their latrine last night were. My thought is that they guess the weird canvas bring it with them.

After some hours and some marching, it's time for lunch! Now the monster canvas march out again to the center of the 3 armies. 3 battalions of runners with big pots and pans come near, submit their things to some weird people in robes. They receive them and disappear into the canvas. Then BAM!, they return outside, lumbering with pots full of food, give those to the runners and get more empty ones. These runners then spread out to distribute the meals to the army, meanwhile more BAMs! continue to pop out from the canvas. Well, after seeing what happened in the morning, I can only wonder what the soldiers think where their food come from.

While this, again, makes lots of sense, it also proves Sadeas' stupidity.

 

That's another good point. I don't really know Alethi, but I assume they have physiology very similar to humans. If that's true, then cheap trick or not, I'd still be so impressed. Let's imagine those shardbearers as very, very fat sumo with katana. If I ever saw a 1v4 match, it'd be quite a display. But then, suddenly a tiny, lean sumo with a stick jumps in and draws 2 or 3 big guys out, then somehow manages to survive... Eventually he loses his stick, but then he kicks a fat sumo away!? This new scene is so novel I'd not pay much attention to the other 1v1 or occasionally 1v2 fight of "Adolin-kun" anymore. You know, simple human psychology  

Oh, I have some more questions:

8. The unmasking of Amaram. Kaladin wasn't supposed to be able to appear there, being injured & exhausted after the fall. Then Dalinar led him to Amaram and the story happened as it was. Did Dalinar decide to do it on the fly?

9. Szeth's source of Light. Coppermind says spheres go dun after a week. It's been 2 weeks into the Weeping. WoR also states that even the most valued spheres (emerald broams?) were barely visible at that moment. In every assassination, we're told that Szeth used spheres. This time what powered him? He couldn't carry those big, rough stones like inside the army lanterns because his body would bloat like a hippo, not to mention his clothes can't carry them and they'd hinder his movements so much.

There is a WoB

Questioner

So how did Shallan rescue Kaladin when they fell in the chasm?

Brandon Sanderson

She did not. It was actually Syl, but he was in the process of breaking the bond, and so she was able to get some Stormlight to him. But that is what really set it really poorly. Like you can imagine, she-- this bond was really a strain for her to use at that point, so it was her. But doing what she did just about destroyed her, which is why you don't hear from her after that.

Salt Lake City signing (March 29, 2014)

[Quantus he/him]

On the bridges, it's not just the lower gravity of the world, they also invented a super-strong, super-light soulcast wood for it:

 

 

Quote

 

Brandon Sanderson

Now also keep in mind a couple of things: 0.7 Earth gravity, a very important aspect for actually making this bridge weight work for carrying it; and it is a soulcast wood. The only way to get the numbers to work if you've got engineers, the weight-- you actually have to realize that we've got a wood that is slightly stronger, yet lighter, than what-- it's like a-- Peter came up, it's like a balsa, there's a soulcast wood that is really a great wood for this sort of thing.

That doesn't mean it's light, it's still a really heavy book

Questioner

*Laughter*

Brandon Sanderson

A really heavy bridge.

Words of Radiance Seattle signing (March 8, 2014)

 

 

[Nymeros]

Incredibly, none of those points mentioned are actually inconsistencies. Other posters have already explained why.

[Long try]

On 6/26/2019 at 9:54 PM, Karger said:

He chose that exact moment because Kaladin was present(giving Amaram's moral compass time to prod at him) and because it was a public venue so Ameram could not spin the encounter to his advantage latter(there were to many witnesses).

Woah, yes I knew that Dalinar prepared all those but for him to grab the opportunity when it came like that... he's mastering the art of politics! Respect.

On 6/26/2019 at 9:54 PM, Karger said:

A surgebinder can move stormlgiht between gemstones.  So Szeth could have gotten a huge gemestone(like the gemhearts from the casmerefiends for example) and tranfered some it if's stormlight into a smaller gemstone for convenience.

Though not specifically mentioned in the 1st 2 books, I should have thought of this probability. Shallan could blow out images and Kal managed to 'heave' his hand back to life... are indications of Light manipulation like that. Brandon did a good job!

On 6/26/2019 at 10:55 PM, Pathfinder said:

He owned up to responsibility for all the deaths he caused.

Yeah, plus the fact that he had been constantly haunted by all the screams until that, we can see that Szeth was near the limit of sanity. Poor guy. When you're traumatized, your actions doesn't make much sense. I'm reading 'The body keeps the scores' and am a bit shocked what PTSD can do.

On 6/26/2019 at 10:55 PM, Pathfinder said:

Edgedancer spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

Nale mentions to Lift that in order to kill her, he will need to leave the shardblade in her for a sustained time for her to die due to stormlight healing.

Oathbringer spoilers

I refuse to look at these tempting evils  tSA is the best collection of books in my life till now and I may regret it by spoiling what the coming books can bring. So let's say I wholeheartedly agree with your assertion, at least until I finish ED & OB, hehe

On 6/26/2019 at 10:55 PM, Pathfinder said:

it notes he forced his bond with Syl resulting in her screaming in pain. So he was able to use stormlight in that moment, but after that the bond completely left him. 

Ah, I should reread the book sometime. Missed this important part.

On 6/26/2019 at 10:55 PM, Pathfinder said:

because they were about to leave for the center of the shattered plains if I recall correctly, and he wanted it resolved before they left. (I just checked and I was right, it was just before they were going to leave for the center of the shattered plains.) So I would imagine he wouldn't want a traitor behind his back in the middle of a war zone. 

Well I doubt it. If Kal were not there then things would be normal and Dalinar would wait until after the march to deal with Amaram. After all, Amaram's a force himself not counting his army. In a march into the unknown, Dalinar surely would figure he needed every ounce of help. And being double-faced as Amaram was, he wouldn't just betray Kholin in the middle of the battle. So I imagine that all the preparation accounts for like 80% of his decision, but Kaladin's appearance fills in the remaining 20%, and thus he made it on the spot like that. By doing so he's cutting his own resources, but that was the "right thing to do" - using the phrase of the honor guy, Kaladin

On 6/26/2019 at 10:55 PM, Pathfinder said:

Szeth mentions in Way of Kings or Words of Radiance that Urithiru for some reason causes the gemstones to lose stormlight slower so he keeps a cache there to grab as needed.

I don't remember any of this, but smart guy indeed. He reminds me of Bourne in Identity.

On 6/26/2019 at 11:17 PM, Karger said:

He has not read Oathbringer yet delete this.

That's very thoughtful of you, @Karger! [online hug]

On 6/26/2019 at 11:30 PM, QuantumSpren said:

There is a WoB

Questioner

So how did Shallan rescue Kaladin when they fell in the chasm?

Brandon Sanderson

She did not. It was actually Syl, but he was in the process of breaking the bond, and so she was able to get some Stormlight to him. But that is what really set it really poorly. Like you can imagine, she-- this bond was really a strain for her to use at that point, so it was her. But doing what she did just about destroyed her, which is why you don't hear from her after that.

Er... what is a WoB? Words of Brandon? Anyway, his answer is interesting. If 'the process of breaking the bond' was started by Kal making a controversial statement and his wrongdoing, then I wonder when the bond was initiated and what caused it? IIRC, when he was young he's already felt 'a rush' when picking up a stick to fight farmers.

On 6/27/2019 at 3:53 AM, Quantus said:

On the bridges, it's not just the lower gravity of the world, they also invented a super-strong, super-light soulcast wood for it:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Well, that's a very convincing explanation from the team. Still. There's like no explanation at all from the 1st 2 books about the bridges, and I feel like they came up with this new info when pressed by fans. It's like fans began asking a lot about the bridges in the mail, and Brandon said to his team: "We need to address this sht". As they brainstormed, Peter suddenly stood up: "Hey, they asked how heavy it was, right? Now look, we haven't mentioned about how strong gravity is, hehe" and another gal: "What about deus-ex soulcast? We haven't used that plot device on the bridges yet". So and so...

IMHO, even with 0.7G the bridges are still hard to pull off in reality. What if that side of the chasm is only 1ft higher than this side? How can you push it up from here?? Even with a design of sloping backside, the bridges will face great difficulty if now instead of just 25cm, the other side is 5ft higher, what I consider commonplace on a terrain so shattered as the Plains.

17 hours ago, Nymeros said:

Incredibly, none of those points mentioned are actually inconsistencies. Other posters have already explained why.

Some of them, while wonderfully explained, don't mean that they're now not inconsistencies at all. For example, Sadeas with all his "weaknesses" like that should not be portrayed as an dangerous eel or something. It leaves us a feeling that he was just used as a plot device to propel the story through 2 books, and now his role is done as the new arc of Desolation has descended upon everyone, he's killed very conveniently.

Or Shallan's curiosity. Previously, Sanderson described she had been distracted even when her own life is on the line, (fractions of) seconds before being killed. Veden or Alethi or whatnot, when your existence is being threatened then it's really, very big deal. Like, the HUGEST deal. It demonstrated how strong the scholar mind was. And we humans are super good at procrastination, or delaying important things for present pleasurable distractions even though we know those crucial things will benefit us a lot. Sounds similar to this 'save the world' situation?

Also keep in mind that Shallan had no specific countdown like Dalinar. While she knew that Urithiru was the key, she was under no pressure when she joined the army. Only near the end of the march that Dalinar suggested that her discovery could be a lifeline for his troops. So closing herself in a carriage and reading our book (er, I mean Words of Radiance) nonstop for more than a week while a spectacle was happening right outside is just nonsense. Remember, some of us Sandersonites here completed this heavy tome in, like, 2 days. Must be the same case with her.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Long try

[Ammanas]

43 minutes ago, Long try said:

Er... what is a WoB? Words of Brandon?

Yes, it means Words of Brandon. Not sure if you know what that means, or not, but basically fans ask him deep and obscure questions about the finer details of the cosmere and sometimes he gives answers to them at signings, events etc. You can search by key word or event here:

https://wob.coppermind.net/

[Pathfinder]

4 hours ago, Long try said:

Yeah, plus the fact that he had been constantly haunted by all the screams until that, we can see that Szeth was near the limit of sanity. Poor guy. When you're traumatized, your actions doesn't make much sense. I'm reading 'The body keeps the scores' and am a bit shocked what PTSD can do.

Pretty much. Which is why I am looking forward to Szeth's continuing evolving character. 

Quote

I refuse to look at these tempting evils  tSA is the best collection of books in my life till now and I may regret it by spoiling what the coming books can bring. So let's say I wholeheartedly agree with your assertion, at least until I finish ED & OB, hehe

Lol sorry. Enjoy reading them!

Quote

Ah, I should reread the book sometime. Missed this important part.

No problem. it happens.

Quote

Well I doubt it. If Kal were not there then things would be normal and Dalinar would wait until after the march to deal with Amaram. After all, Amaram's a force himself not counting his army. In a march into the unknown, Dalinar surely would figure he needed every ounce of help. And being double-faced as Amaram was, he wouldn't just betray Kholin in the middle of the battle. So I imagine that all the preparation accounts for like 80% of his decision, but Kaladin's appearance fills in the remaining 20%, and thus he made it on the spot like that. By doing so he's cutting his own resources, but that was the "right thing to do" - using the phrase of the honor guy, Kaladin

So I started, but unfortunately have lagged, looking at every quote associated with Amaram to give him a thorough over look like I did to Jasnah. Amaram is a glory hound. He tried to convince Dalinar to leave behind Sebarial and the other highprince, so just Dalinar, Amaram and Dalinar's men could go off to the center of the Shattered Plains for glory. Dalinar said how they should be beyond such vainglory. Dalinar wasn't sure he would have any other Highprinces to back him up at all, but if you know a military leader lied to you, stole from you, and killed men under his command in the past to further his own goals, would you trust him to lead your own men? For myself, I most certainly would not. So I would out him before leaving, to minimize the potential sabotage he could do to my excursion in retaliation. But that at least is just me. So I do believe Dalinar would have done it around that time regardless, but since Kaladin returned, he did it the way he did. 

Quote

I don't remember any of this, but smart guy indeed. He reminds me of Bourne in Identity.

So although not the quote I thought, it does still answer your question:

Words of Radiance page 709

"He had just enough Light to free himself from the mo9untains and land in a village in the foothills. They often set out spheres for him there as an offering, considering him some kind of god. He would feed upon that Light, and it would let him go farther distance until he found another city and more stormlight."

This was the scene where Szeth hung out at Urithiru

Quote

Well, that's a very convincing explanation from the team. Still. There's like no explanation at all from the 1st 2 books about the bridges, and I feel like they came up with this new info when pressed by fans. It's like fans began asking a lot about the bridges in the mail, and Brandon said to his team: "We need to address this sht". As they brainstormed, Peter suddenly stood up: "Hey, they asked how heavy it was, right? Now look, we haven't mentioned about how strong gravity is, hehe" and another gal: "What about deus-ex soulcast? We haven't used that plot device on the bridges yet". So and so...

Brandon tends to focus heavily on world building and thinks of this stuff in advance. The chasmfiends are a prime example of this. Insects and crustaceans cannot get larger than they are due to the inverse square law. Their own body would crush them from the weight. So in order for chasmfiends to still be a thing, Brandon had Roshar have lower than what we know of on earth gravity. But he didn't stop there because the reduced gravity would still result in the chasmfiend crushing their own body. It isn't enough by itself. Which is why he came up with the ecosystem having natural fauna have natural bonds with various spren. The spren the chasmfiend is bonded to, and hangs around it, cause it to be lighter, and thereby exist. Roshar also has a higher oxygen content which scientists theorize would allow for larger insectoid life forms which we do see on Roshar. The is one of the big reasons a lot of people do love Brandon's writing. Because he does account for these things. Or at least to the best of his ability. For instance soulcasting is mass conservative unless certain situations where it is not. Not sure if you know what I mean by that, so if you would like me to explain, let me know!

As to deus-ex, with all due respect, I do feel you are not using that term correctly. It originated during greek tragedies, because the play would put the protagonist in such a horrible situation that there was no way the person could come back from that. The writers wanting the audience in some situations to still have "a happy ending", would insert a literal god, who would take pity on the protagonists plight, snap their fingers, and "fix everything". This is a problem because the god insert had no foreshadowing, no reason, and took away agency from the protagonist. It also removed any means of drama, because you would know that no matter how bad things got, it could just be "fixed". So it became known as a literary device for whenever something has not been explained, foreshadowed, or makes sense in the world it is in, occurs for no discernible reason. Soulcasting comes up repeatedly throughout the novels. It is explained at length. It was a very real cost to those using the fabrials. It is a rare relic and it is employed as such. The ardentia regulates and restricts it extensively. The fact that Jasnah has one is seen as a great heresy, danger, and she has to fight off people trying to rob her of it constantly. It is discussed in the novels how the highstorms and soulcasting create a great military dilemma. Do you go for the high ground to lay siege to a city, risking your army getting wrecked in a highstorm, or do you go for cover, but lose the advantage? Siege warfare is not something you can wait out. Between highstorms battering your troops, and soulcasters keeping a city supplied despite loss of access to their farm land, generals have to find someway to cope. This is further expounded upon in Oathbringer, but there are plenty of mentions of it in Way of Kings and Words of Radiance. Just like it is constantly mentioned how those in the stormlands live their lives by the storm. Sloping buildings, and the materials they are built with. Purelake functions completely different due to their experience. Shin act even "stranger". 

As an aside, another literary device that is tossed around a lot is Chekov's Gun. I am not sure if you heard of that or not, but that is when something is mentioned, and then forgotten. So if the writer makes a point to mention a gun. Describe the gun and call the reader's attention to the gun, then the gun had better matter or fire at some point, otherwise it is just wasted page space. 

 

[Karger he/him]

7 hours ago, Long try said:

! [online hug]

(Pats back)

 

7 hours ago, Long try said:

Er... what is a WoB? Words of Brandon? Anyway, his answer is interesting. If 'the process of breaking the bond' was started by Kal making a controversial statement and his wrongdoing, then I wonder when the bond was initiated and what caused it? IIRC, when he was young he's already felt 'a rush' when picking up a stick to fight farmers.

Yes.  At signings and public venues you can ask Brandon questions.  The fans record and upload these to an online database(we call them word of Brandon's or WoBs for short) but you should probably stay away from them until you have finished basically all of his work.

 

7 hours ago, Long try said:

Well, that's a very convincing explanation from the team. Still. There's like no explanation at all from the 1st 2 books about the bridges, and I feel like they came up with this new info when pressed by fans. It's like fans began asking a lot about the bridges in the mail, and Brandon said to his team: "We need to address this sht". As they brainstormed, Peter suddenly stood up: "Hey, they asked how heavy it was, right? Now look, we haven't mentioned about how strong gravity is, hehe" and another gal: "What about deus-ex soulcast? We haven't used that plot device on the bridges yet". So and so...

Actually Brandon designed Roshar in part with Bridge runs in mind.  The entire idea comes from an earlier work that he cannibalized for Way of Kings.  If you look closely Kaladin does note the professionalism of Sadea's carpenters and the materials they are made from.  Dalinar tries to make bridges himself that can take more weight unsuccessfully.

7 hours ago, Long try said:

Also keep in mind that Shallan had no specific countdown like Dalinar. While she knew that Urithiru was the key, she was under no pressure when she joined the army. Only near the end of the march that Dalinar suggested that her discovery could be a lifeline for his troops. So closing herself in a carriage and reading our book (er, I mean Words of Radiance) nonstop for more than a week while a spectacle was happening right outside is just nonsense. Remember, some of us Sandersonites here completed this heavy tome in, like, 2 days. Must be the same case with her.

The march was likely quite boring.  The project would have allowed her something to do.  Her avoiding thinking when her life is on the line is a defense mechanism that she developed for various reasons and is part of what attracted Pattern to her.

[Scion of the Mists]

On 6/26/2019 at 10:54 AM, Karger said:

There are even larger gemstones that hold a charge for even longer(they are just not used as currency).  A surgebinder can move stormlgiht between gemstones.  So Szeth could have gotten a huge gemestone(like the gemhearts from the casmerefiends for example) and tranfered some it if's stormlight into a smaller gemstone for convenience.  Also a week is more of an average.  Some gemstones hold for a bit longer.

Where does it mention this?  I must have missed it.  

 

On 6/26/2019 at 10:38 AM, Long try said:

From every mention in the 1st 2 books, it worked in a way that the damage is done 1st and the repairing comes after. No shielding effect. So it's easy to conclude that if someone is dead fast then there's no chance to heal. Now, we remember that Adolin expected to kill a full Shardbearer just by pushing her down the chasm. There's no indication of the chasm's height where Eshonai fell & where the pair fell. By just the pictures of the Plains, I assume that they're roughly the same height.

There's a difference between a Shardbearer and a Surgebinder.  Shardbearers have Plate an/or Blade, but dead Blades/Plate do not give them the ability to breathe in Stormlight or heal.  

 

10 hours ago, Long try said:

Er... what is a WoB? Words of Brandon? Anyway, his answer is interesting. If 'the process of breaking the bond' was started by Kal making a controversial statement and his wrongdoing, then I wonder when the bond was initiated and what caused it? IIRC, when he was young he's already felt 'a rush' when picking up a stick to fight farmers.

Yes, Word of Brandon.  There's a repository of them that we maintain called The Arcanum.  It's pretty nifty - you should check it out (although fyi, there are Oathbringer spoilers there).  

 

10 hours ago, Long try said:

Well, that's a very convincing explanation from the team. Still. There's like no explanation at all from the 1st 2 books about the bridges, and I feel like they came up with this new info when pressed by fans. It's like fans began asking a lot about the bridges in the mail, and Brandon said to his team: "We need to address this sht". As they brainstormed, Peter suddenly stood up: "Hey, they asked how heavy it was, right? Now look, we haven't mentioned about how strong gravity is, hehe" and another gal: "What about deus-ex soulcast? We haven't used that plot device on the bridges yet". So and so...

Brandon puts a ton of time and effort into his worldbuilding, especially Roshar.  As others have mentioned, the reduced gravity was something that was settled on well before the books were released.  It's how he was able to have these giant monsters (i.e. the chasmfiends and other greatshells) exist at all.  He cares a lot about grounding his works in as much real-world physics as possible, where he can.  He even worried about red shift when designing the speed bubbles!

 

10 hours ago, Long try said:

Some of them, while wonderfully explained, don't mean that they're now not inconsistencies at all. For example, Sadeas with all his "weaknesses" like that should not be portrayed as an dangerous eel or something. It leaves us a feeling that he was just used as a plot device to propel the story through 2 books, and now his role is done as the new arc of Desolation has descended upon everyone, he's killed very conveniently.

Or Shallan's curiosity. Previously, Sanderson described she had been distracted even when her own life is on the line, (fractions of) seconds before being killed. Veden or Alethi or whatnot, when your existence is being threatened then it's really, very big deal. Like, the HUGEST deal. It demonstrated how strong the scholar mind was. And we humans are super good at procrastination, or delaying important things for present pleasurable distractions even though we know those crucial things will benefit us a lot. Sounds similar to this 'save the world' situation?

Also keep in mind that Shallan had no specific countdown like Dalinar. While she knew that Urithiru was the key, she was under no pressure when she joined the army. Only near the end of the march that Dalinar suggested that her discovery could be a lifeline for his troops. So closing herself in a carriage and reading our book (er, I mean Words of Radiance) nonstop for more than a week while a spectacle was happening right outside is just nonsense. Remember, some of us Sandersonites here completed this heavy tome in, like, 2 days. Must be the same case with her.

While these things may feel inconsistent to you, that doesn't make them inconsistencies.  They're not objectively inconsistent, as evidenced by the people disagreeing with you. 

People interpret things in different ways.  For example, it feels inconsistent to you that Sadeas would goad Adolin because you think it's obvious that Adolin would try to kill him.  However, there were a ton of people on the forum who cried foul because Adolin murdering someone in cold blood felt extremely out of character to them.  

[Karger he/him]

6 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Where does it mention this?  I must have missed it.  

We see surgebinders put stormlight back into gemstones throughout the series.

 

[Pathfinder]

36 minutes ago, Karger said:

We see surgebinders put stormlight back into gemstones throughout the series.

 

Although I do think I can recall what you are speaking of, I think he or she was asking for a reference. From what I remember it happened once with Kaladin and once with Shallan, but I am going off of recollection. If you could produce a page number, I think that would help. 

[Nymeros]

On 6/28/2019 at 6:05 AM, Long try said:

Some of them, while wonderfully explained, don't mean that they're now not inconsistencies at all. For example, Sadeas with all his "weaknesses" like that should not be portrayed as an dangerous eel or something. It leaves us a feeling that he was just used as a plot device to propel the story through 2 books, and now his role is done as the new arc of Desolation has descended upon everyone, he's killed very conveniently.

Or Shallan's curiosity. Previously, Sanderson described she had been distracted even when her own life is on the line, (fractions of) seconds before being killed. Veden or Alethi or whatnot, when your existence is being threatened then it's really, very big deal. Like, the HUGEST deal. It demonstrated how strong the scholar mind was. And we humans are super good at procrastination, or delaying important things for present pleasurable distractions even though we know those crucial things will benefit us a lot. Sounds similar to this 'save the world' situation?

Also keep in mind that Shallan had no specific countdown like Dalinar. While she knew that Urithiru was the key, she was under no pressure when she joined the army. Only near the end of the march that Dalinar suggested that her discovery could be a lifeline for his troops. So closing herself in a carriage and reading our book (er, I mean Words of Radiance) nonstop for more than a week while a spectacle was happening right outside is just nonsense. Remember, some of us Sandersonites here completed this heavy tome in, like, 2 days. Must be the same case with her.

To quote a separate story, you seem to want it to be one way.......but it's the other. 

Sadeas is too fallible to be a villain? Shallan has trouble focusing and so cannot devote herself to a task under any circumstances?

 

....what are you talking about? Please provide your definition of "inconsistency."

[Steel Inquisitive he/him]

8 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

To quote a separate story, you seem to want it to be one way.......but it's the other. 

Sadeas is too fallible to be a villain? Shallan has trouble focusing and so cannot devote herself to a task under any circumstances?

 

....what are you talking about? Please provide your definition of "inconsistency."

Art is subjective. At the end of the day a book is a form of art. People will always like some parts of books more than others. That's okay. I read things differently than others all the time and that is why every human on the planet doesn't like all the same books. It's okay to disagree but you seem determined to... I was going to say force him to see it your way, but you haven't even stated your opinion. Long try has very clearly detailed why he saw things as inconsistencies. Maybe you should talk instead of accuse. I guess all I'm trying to say is please be respectful to others and their opinions. Thank you.

 

 

[Nymeros]

20 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

Long try has very clearly detailed why he saw things as inconsistencies. 

.....I dont find his explanations to be clear at all. This is why Ive asked for clarification on how he is using "inconsistent."

Edited June 30, 2019 by Nymeros