Bookish Ocelot she/her Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) Basically what it says on the tin: Do the surges of the Knights Radiant have a spiritual form? We saw Dalinar use spiritual adhesion to learn another language. The windrunners use a form of spiritual gravitation to attract squires. I have a theory I’ll put on here later about the Truthwatchers using spiritual Illumination for healing. Could it be that all the surges have a spiritual form unlocked at a higher oath level? Adhesion: Learn a different language, fight as a unit* Gravitation: Attract squires* Division Abrasion: “social lubricant”* Progression Illumination: To show a better/different version of yourself or others* Transformation: soulcast at a distance* Transportation Cohesion Tension *unconfirmed Edited June 11, 2019 by BookishOcelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, BookishOcelot said: Basically what it says on the tin: Do the surges of the Knights Radiant have a spiritual form? We saw Dalinar use spiritual adhesion to learn another language. The windrunners use a form of spiritual gravitation to attract squires. I have a theory I’ll put on here later about the Truthwatchers using spiritual Illumination for healing. Could it be that all the surges have a spiritual form unlocked at a higher oath level? No idea if other orders can have spiritual versions of their surges or not, but just wanted to say if access to spiritual versions of the surges was predicated on the oath level, then Kaladin, Shallan, Jasnah, and Lift all should have already had access to their spiritual versions of their surges. Dalinar is at oath 3. Kaladin, Shallan, Jasnah and Lift are all at or above oath 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive he/him Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 55 minutes ago, Pathfinder said: No idea if other orders can have spiritual versions of their surges or not, but just wanted to say if access to spiritual versions of the surges was predicated on the oath level, then Kaladin, Shallan, Jasnah, and Lift all should have already had access to their spiritual versions of their surges. Dalinar is at oath 3. Kaladin, Shallan, Jasnah and Lift are all at or above oath 3. Well, if they do have spiritual surges, then we have seen them used by some of these characters. Kaladin: strength of squires. (This could also be the resonance...) Shallan: she has done weird things with her drawings. Sketching a person's spiritual aspect/drawing things she shouldn't know about. Jashnah: maybe it's what let's her soulcast from a distance? Lift: no idea.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 38 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said: Well, if they do have spiritual surges, then we have seen them used by some of these characters. Kaladin: strength of squires. (This could also be the resonance...) Shallan: she has done weird things with her drawings. Sketching a person's spiritual aspect/drawing things she shouldn't know about. Jashnah: maybe it's what let's her soulcast from a distance? Lift: no idea.... Having a lot of squires is confirmed to be the Windrunners' resonance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookish Ocelot she/her Posted June 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Pathfinder said: No idea if other orders can have spiritual versions of their surges or not, but just wanted to say if access to spiritual versions of the surges was predicated on the oath level, then Kaladin, Shallan, Jasnah, and Lift all should have already had access to their spiritual versions of their surges. Dalinar is at oath 3. Kaladin, Shallan, Jasnah and Lift are all at or above oath 3. Doesn't necessarily mean they would have discovered that aspect. 43 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said: Well, if they do have spiritual surges, then we have seen them used by some of these characters. Kaladin: strength of squires. (This could also be the resonance...) Shallan: she has done weird things with her drawings. Sketching a person's spiritual aspect/drawing things she shouldn't know about. Jashnah: maybe it's what let's her soulcast from a distance? Lift: no idea.... I like the Shallan one, though I can't quite see how soulcasting from a distance would have an effect spiritually. 3 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said: Having a lot of squires is confirmed to be the Windrunners' resonance. I would still consider a resonance as an aspect of surgebinding. The resonance is the result of the two surges combining in a special way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive he/him Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said: Having a lot of squires is confirmed to be the Windrunners' resonance. It's a resonance on a spiritual level..... So, still works? 3 hours ago, BookishOcelot said: I like the Shallan one, though I can't quite see how soulcasting from a distance would have an effect spiritually. My thought was that there is no space in the spiritual realm so it would allow her to use her surge through the spiritual realm to soulcast from a distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheFoxQR Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) Lightweaver Resonance is their ability to project on the people around them. Somewhat like how Shallan can capture the best in people - access to the Surge of Transformation allows her to "transform" people around her into this better/ideal version. One interesting thing is that because of this resonance, the name Lightweaver works on multiple levels. Not only do they literally "weave" stormlight into illusions, they also weave a metaphorical light into the people around them, where light means "happiness", "inspiration" or "contentment". I would say that Surges as concepts are separate from the Knights Radiant, who each access a version of their Surge, as facilitated by the spiritweb of the spren they bond. Dalinar having access to spiritual adhesion isn't a different version of the Surge, just a different way of accessing the same surge. Each order of Radiants accesses Surges in its own special way. Also, I speculate Truthwatchers would then have access to true spiritual Illumination. They "watch" the "truth", as opposed to weaving light. Edited June 11, 2019 by TheFoxQR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchcry he/him Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 Aren't these just resonances? With Renarin healing Adolin and showing him a perfect sense of himself is a result from healing in general, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger he/him Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 Lift has some odd abilities in terms of communication. We see her pick up slang rather quickly. This is in line with the WoR quote that Edgedancers were the most refined of the orders. Perhaps spiritual adhesion greases social interactions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter she/her Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Karger said: Lift has some odd abilities in terms of communication. We see her pick up slang rather quickly. This is in line with the WoR quote that Edgedancers were the most refined of the orders. Perhaps spiritual adhesion greases social interactions? You mean abrasion? A lot of people think it's a resonance, but it could also just be Spiritual Abrasion I guess? 'Social lubricant' you might say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger he/him Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said: You mean abrasion? Yes sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Steel Inquisitive said: 19 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said: Having a lot of squires is confirmed to be the Windrunners' resonance. It's a resonance on a spiritual level..... So, still works? You said: "Kaladin: strength of squires. (This could also be the resonance...)" - I was just confirming that it was, indeed, the resonance. 15 hours ago, TheFoxQR said: Lightweaver Resonance is their ability to project on the people around them. The Lightweaver resonance is not projection. It's their mnemonic abilities. 19 hours ago, BookishOcelot said: I would still consider a resonance as an aspect of surgebinding. The resonance is the result of the two surges combining in a special way. I can see where you're coming from, but I would disagree that the resonance is part of Surgebinding. A resonance isn't just a synergistic way of combining different powers - they're usually not even directly tied to the powers themselves (e.g. gravity + stickiness = squires? holograms + Transformation = memorization?). If you only had access to one Surge (e.g. via a fabrial), you would not have a resonance. Also, if you were to gain more powers (e.g. via medallions or something) you would lose your resonance, but you'd still be a Surgebinder. Edited June 11, 2019 by Scion of the Mists Removed confusing reference to Renarin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheFoxQR Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said: The Lightweaver resonance is not projection. It's their mnemonic abilities. I was mostly referring to this WoB: Quote Questioner In Stormlight, with Kaladin and his brother Tien, is there a connection or a reason why, whenever his brother finds a rock, that keeps coming up several times? Brandon Sanderson Yes. So, there's a couple themes going on here. One is just the subtle theme that Tien tends to find beauty in things that Kaladin finds dull. That's, of course, kind of the metaphor. But Tien also was a budding Lightweaver, and he saw color and light a little bit differently than other people did. And he has the same general effect that you'll see Shallan having on people, which is how the Lightweaver views you influences a little bit more how your mood is, and things like that... And there is a magical element to that, as well. There's both a metaphoric reason and an in-world reason. The Great American Read: Other Worlds with Brandon Sanderson (Oct. 25, 2018) If Mnemonics are confirmed to be their resonance, then do they have two? Or is this mood influencing thing something else entirely? Or maybe they're both different components of the same resonance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter she/her Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said: You said: "Kaladin: strength of squires. (This could also be the resonance...)" - I was just confirming that it was, indeed, the resonance. The Lightweaver resonance is not projection. It's their mnemonic abilities. I can see where you're coming from, but I would disagree that the resonance is part of Surgebinding. A resonance isn't just a synergistic way of combining different powers - they're usually not even directly tied to the powers themselves (e.g. gravity + stickiness = squires? holograms + Transformation = memorization?). If you only had access to one Surge (e.g. via a fabrial or special-case Renarin), you would not have a resonance. Also, if you were to gain more powers (e.g. via medallions or something) you would lose your resonance, but you'd still be a Surgebinder. I think Renarin does have access to two Surges it's just that one is the Voidbinding version due to Glys being corrupted. So he does have a resonance (that is likely completely unique to him). Edited June 11, 2019 by CrazyRioter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, CrazyRioter said: I think Renarin does have access to two Surges it's just that one is the Voidbinding version due to Glys being corrupted. So he does have a resonance (that is likely completely unique to him). Yes. I agree completely. Maybe I didn't word it the best. Renarin is not really the point of the statement, so I'll edit it to prevent confusion. Edited June 11, 2019 by Scion of the Mists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookish Ocelot she/her Posted June 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 6 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said: You said: "Kaladin: strength of squires. (This could also be the resonance...)" - I was just confirming that it was, indeed, the resonance. The Lightweaver resonance is not projection. It's their mnemonic abilities. I can see where you're coming from, but I would disagree that the resonance is part of Surgebinding. A resonance isn't just a synergistic way of combining different powers - they're usually not even directly tied to the powers themselves (e.g. gravity + stickiness = squires? holograms + Transformation = memorization?). If you only had access to one Surge (e.g. via a fabrial), you would not have a resonance. Also, if you were to gain more powers (e.g. via medallions or something) you would lose your resonance, but you'd still be a Surgebinder. I suspect the Nahel bond and the changes in the spiritweb are part of what create the resonance. Spiritual gravitation (I think) is what creates the squires- they are pulled towards a radiant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, BookishOcelot said: I suspect the Nahel bond and the changes in the spiritweb are part of what create the resonance. Spiritual gravitation (I think) is what creates the squires- they are pulled towards a radiant. Could you clarify? The way I am reading this is you are saying the windrunner's resonance is the strength of the squires, and spiritual gravitation is why they have squires at all. If that is the case, we have confirmed that other orders also get squires. Orders that do not have the surges adhesion nor gravitation. How do they have squires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger he/him Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 I believe that the spiritual surge of adhesion might make Kaladin's group better at fighting as a unit. The gravitation aspect may be the reason that Kaladin is so good with a spear(so much of fighting is about balance and momentum). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookish Ocelot she/her Posted June 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 59 minutes ago, Pathfinder said: Could you clarify? The way I am reading this is you are saying the windrunner's resonance is the strength of the squires, and spiritual gravitation is why they have squires at all. If that is the case, we have confirmed that other orders also get squires. Orders that do not have the surges adhesion nor gravitation. How do they have squires? No, gravitation isn’t the sole reason for squires, but it contributes greatly to the amount/strength thereof. Other orders have squires, but there aren’t as many. (most can only have one at a time IIRC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, BookishOcelot said: No, gravitation isn’t the sole reason for squires, but it contributes greatly to the amount/strength thereof. Other orders have squires, but there aren’t as many. (most can only have one at a time IIRC) Ah gotcha. I disagree, and lend towards with Scion of the Mists posted regarding resonances, but now I understand better what you are saying. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 17 hours ago, BookishOcelot said: I suspect the Nahel bond and the changes in the spiritweb are part of what create the resonance. Spiritual gravitation (I think) is what creates the squires- they are pulled towards a radiant. Resonances are not only limited to Nahel bonds. They occur any time a person has multiple magic powers (and then fade away if they have too many). For example, Twinborn have resonances as well. See the Coppermind page: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Resonance. 16 hours ago, BookishOcelot said: No, gravitation isn’t the sole reason for squires, but it contributes greatly to the amount/strength thereof. Other orders have squires, but there aren’t as many. (most can only have one at a time IIRC) The increased number of squires for Windrunners is to to their resonance, not a single Surge. If you only had Gravitation (because you were a Windrunner who's Adhesion had been spike out, or you gained just the one Surge from a fabrial or medallion) you would not have that ability because you would not have a resonance. To get back to the original topic, I do believe that most of the Surges can be used in a Spiritual way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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