Did the Shards split shu-keseg?

[WhiteEmporer]

I get the distinct impression that the religions we see in the book Elantris are influenced by the Shards of that world.  Shu-Korath fits Devotion,  and Shu-Dereth Dominion. What's interesting about that is that they did not spring up independently, as you would expect from two religions caused by two different shards. Instead they were both offshoots of shu-keseg. Keseg's two students went two different directions with his teachings. 

We also know that Sel existed before Dominion and Devotion came there. So their religions would develop after they got to Sel.

So I think in this we may have a definitive time for when the two Shards arrived on Sel: during the lifetime of Keseg's two students. After they arrived, their two diverse intents influenced the respective students and the religions that came from them. 

Just something my wife thought of. 

 

Edit: not sure how this relates to any other religions of Sel (like the ones we see in Emporer's soul)

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by WhiteEmporer

[Calderis he/him]

The main issue here is that the Shards were splintered in what Khriss refers to as human prehistory on Sel. 

So while I agree that the religions do seem to be very well aligned with the respective Shards, the Shards should have been killed before any of those religions ever existed. 

In the case of Shu-Dereth though, there is a very good reason for the alignment. The Skaze, the Dominion version of Seons, are very influential there. 

[RShara she/her]

The Shards on Sel arrived and were Splintered in the pre-history of that world. I don't think any records remain from that period of time. Also, Brandon has said that the Splintering predates Shu-Keseg.

Quote

Chris King

Does Shu-Keseg predate the splintering of Devotion and Dominion?

Brandon Sanderson

No, I don't believe it does.

Chris King interview (Sept. 24, 2013)

 

 

[WhiteEmporer]

Okay, I had not remembered that quote from Khriss. Never mind then.  

@Calderis good point about the Skaze. could Shu-Korath have been influenced by interaction with Seons? Maybe the religions seem to associate with shards because of the influence of sapient Splinters on them.

[Wandering Investor]

@Calderis Where is it stated that the deaths of the Dev and Dom were pre-humanity on Sel?

 

That said, the religions are definitely came after their deaths. However, their essence still permeates the world and is a big influencer, so the creater's of the religion were likely influenced by what remained of the shards, possibly by the magic systems that exist. Entry into AonDor appears to require devotion, and the Dakhor monks requires domination. The central areas of the two child religions correlate to where these magic systems exist.

[Calderis he/him]

@Wandering Investor

The Selish System Essay in Arcanum Unbounded. 

Quote

I believe that early on, the Shards took an unconcerned approach to humankind—and society was shaped by the slow, steady discovery of the powers that permeated the landscape. This is difficult to determine for certain now, however, as at some point in the distant past, both Devotion and Dominion were destroyed. Their Investiture—their power—was Splintered, their minds ripped away, their souls sent into the Beyond.
I am uncertain whether their power was left to ravage the world untamed for a time, or was immediately contained. This all happened during the days of human prehistory on Sel.

 

[Elegy he/him]

I wonder where the humans on Sel came from if the Shards were already dead before they inhabited the planet ...

23 hours ago, WhiteEmporer said:

Okay, I had not remembered that quote from Khriss. Never mind then.  

@Calderis good point about the Skaze. could Shu-Korath have been influenced by interaction with Seons? Maybe the religions seem to associate with shards because of the influence of sapient Splinters on them.

This is probably the case. Maybe not from the start, but I imagine the Skaze had a huge impact on what Shu-Dereth came to represent over the centuries. After all, the Fjordell Empire insists on dominating the continent.

[RShara she/her]

7 minutes ago, Elegy said:

I wonder where the humans on Sel came from if the Shards were already dead before they inhabited the planet ...

This is probably the case. Maybe not from the start, but I imagine the Skaze had a huge impact on what Shu-Dereth came to represent over the centuries. After all, the Fjordell Empire insists on dominating the continent.

Pre-history doesn't necessarily mean pre-existance, though.

[Elegy he/him]

8 minutes ago, RShara said:

Pre-history doesn't necessarily mean pre-existance, though.

Yeah, that's certainly how it's meant. It wouldn't make any sense for two Shards to settle on a vast vacant planet.

[Calderis he/him]

I never meant to imply that. 

But there is a written record of the history of Shu-Keseg and its split so the splintering of the Shards is invariably prior to that. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Calderis