Navani's Ship Theory

[King's Twit he/him]

1 minute ago, Pathfinder said:

There is also Syl to consider. Just because she suffered from some "brain damage" doesn't change she is an ancient spren that bonded multiple times and is slowly regaining her memories of that time. 

That’s true, although I thought Syl survived because her bond was only in the earliest stages of forming; do we know whether she had bonded others before that person?

[Calderis he/him]

1 minute ago, King's Twit said:

That’s true, although I thought Syl survived because her bond was only in the earliest stages of forming; do we know whether she had bonded others before that person?

No. She had bonded one older man, who died. And because she was so young she was pretty much left in a coma. 

Syl is not an experienced bondmate. 

[Pathfinder]

1 minute ago, King's Twit said:

That’s true, although I thought Syl survived because her bond was only in the earliest stages of forming; do we know whether she had bonded others before that person?

I would have to check to be sure, but if I recall correctly yes she was in the early stages, but it was because the old man was the most recent radiant she bonded, and because he died relatively quickly during the desolation, she ended up weak and "asleep" during the recreance. But again I will need to verify my recollection

[RShara she/her]

7 minutes ago, King's Twit said:

Not all. The Skybreakers did not abandon their Oaths when the other orders did, and (completely without evidence) I would bet that there were some few individuals of other orders who decided to not break their Oaths. Plus there’s the possibility of more spren like Glys who potentially used to bond Parshendi but could now choose to bond humans

Right, but they'd also already have experienced members, including a storming Herald, so it isn't particularly noteworthy.

6 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

There is also Syl to consider. Just because she suffered from some "brain damage" doesn't change she is an ancient spren that bonded multiple times and is slowly regaining her memories of that time. 

She only bonded once before, to an older man who died his first skirmish, causing her to go comatose because she wasn't ready for the emotional backlash.

[Pathfinder]

1 minute ago, RShara said:

Right, but they'd also already have experienced members, including a storming Herald, so it isn't particularly noteworthy.

She only bonded once before, to an older man who died his first skirmish, causing her to go comatose because she wasn't ready for the emotional backlash.

I know about the old man, that was who I was referencing, but I thought he was only the most recent prior to her going comatose. I just want to do a little digging to see if I am nuts, or there is something to my madness. 

[King's Twit he/him]

 

1 minute ago, RShara said:

Right, but they'd also already have experienced members, including a storming Herald, so it isn't particularly noteworthy.

True. The point is probably moot anyway, as the spren seem very unwilling to handhold their bonded humans on how to use their powers. Stormfather has bonded people in the past, but refuses to do anything but hint vaguely at what Dalinar can do, saying he has to discover it for himself. I’m fairly certain Syl and Pattern have said similar things at one point or another.

[Pathfinder]

Found it! "Men" to me denotes plural, though I admit it can be open to interpretation

 

Questioner
When Syl says in The Way of Kings that she had been with other men who have killed. Is she-- Why is she able to say that?

Brandon Sanderson
Syl's memories, the longer she's bonded the more access to them she has, from times before. She knows some of these things. She'll never get it all back.

Questioner
From the time before Kaladin.

Brandon Sanderson
From before Kaladin, from before the Recreance, yes.

[+Invocation]

25 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Found it! "Men" to me denotes plural, though I admit it can be open to interpretation

 

Questioner
When Syl says in The Way of Kings that she had been with other men who have killed. Is she-- Why is she able to say that?

Some of that might be that the Windrunners were very active in killing people at the time.

After all, if she had bonded before, I doubt she would have lost herself the way she did after the bond we know had happened, unless she just repeats that cycle forever.

[Pathfinder]

10 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Some of that might be that the Windrunners were very active in killing people at the time.

After all, if she had bonded before, I doubt she would have lost herself the way she did after the bond we know had happened, unless she just repeats that cycle forever.

Yet from what I recall of her conversation with Kaladin (still trying to find it), she says the old man was barely in a single battle before he died. But again, I admit the WoB could be open to interpretation. I just take "has been with other men" as "other" means other than Kaladin, her bonded radiant, and "men" meaning multiple. Will try to find that scene to find out more. 

[+Invocation]

1 minute ago, Pathfinder said:

Yet from what I recall of her conversation with Kaladin (still trying to find it), she says the old man was barely in a single battle before he died. But again, I admit the WoB could be open to interpretation. I just take "has been with other men" as "other" means other than Kaladin, her bonded radiant, and "men" meaning multiple. Will try to find that scene to find out more. 

I agree that it's ambiguous. We shall find out, I guess.

[Karger he/him]

2 hours ago, RShara said:

Right, but they'd also already have experienced members, including a storming Herald, so it isn't particularly noteworthy.

It is like having an invincible older partner who can follow you around and give good advice from hundreds of years of skybreaking experience.

[RShara she/her]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

It is like having an invincible older partner who can follow you around and give good advice from hundreds of years of skybreaking experience.

As soon as they remember how to keep from bumping into walls Or there's Nale, with thousands of years of experience...

[Karger he/him]

1 minute ago, RShara said:

As soon as they remember how to keep from bumping into walls Or there's Nale, with thousands of years of experience...

I think Nalan has better things to do then follow around junior skybreakers and their is only one of him. 

[RShara she/her]

Quote

“Where did you live?” he asked Syl, still carrying his pack, hiking along the seemingly infinite peninsula. “When you were young, on this side?”

“It was far to the west,” she said. “A grand city, ruled by honorspren! I didn’t like it though. I wanted to travel, but Father kept me in the city, especially after … you know…”

“I’m not actually sure that I do.”

“I bonded a Knight Radiant. Haven’t I told you of him? I remember…” She closed her eyes as she walked, chin up, as if basking in a wind he could not feel. “I bonded him soon after I was born. He was an elderly man, kindly, but he did fight. In one battle. And he died.…”

She blinked open her eyes. “That was a long time ago.”

“I’m sorry.”

“It’s all right. I wasn’t ready though for the bond. Spren normally weather the death of their Radiant, but I … I lost myself when I lost him. It all turned out to be morbidly fortuitous, because soon after, the Recreance happened. Men forsook their oaths, which killed my siblings. I survived, for I didn’t have a bond then.”

Syl bonded him too young, he died in his first battle. While it doesn't say specifically that he was her first bondmate, it's pretty firmly implied imo. I mean, unless she had the misfortune to bond multiple people who died shortly, and the first ones somehow didn't cause the trauma of the last one.

[Calderis he/him]

@Pathfinder honestly, I'd have to call it a contradiction in the text.

Notum's story about Syl makes it clear that She bonded the old man, and his desth left her in a coma for centuries. Considering the tough timing of the recreance, possibly millenia. 

Spoiler

The Stormfather created only a handful of children. All of these, save Sylphrena, were destroyed in the Recreance, becoming deadeyes. This loss stung the Stormfather, who didn’t create again for centuries. When he was finally moved to remake the honorspren, he created only ten more. My great-grandmother was among them; she created my grandfather, who created my father, who eventually created me.
“It was only recently, even by your reckoning, that the Ancient Daughter was rediscovered. Asleep. So, in answer to your question, yes, Sylphrena is both old and young. Old of form, but young of mind. She is not ready to deal with humans, and certainly not ready for a bond. I wouldn’t trust myself with one of those.”

I find it very hard to reconcile that with the idea that she had previous bondmates, as they still consider her "too young" for the bond. 

Edit: and R found the thing I was looking for but didn't know what to search for. Well done. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Calderis

[Merlin]

Yeah. She says she bonded him right after she was born. How are spren born?

 

[+Invocation]

1 minute ago, WannabeWorldhopper said:

Yeah. She says she bonded him right after she was born. How are spren born?

A massive source of Investiture. Some spren who want a child go there and they come back with a chunk of the Investiture that was there that was ready to become a spren (likely just needing a pattern to work off of) and boom new spren. At least that's the gist of it from an OB explanation.

[Merlin]

Wow. I'm sure mothers would like it to be that easy!

[+Invocation]

51 minutes ago, WannabeWorldhopper said:

Wow. I'm sure mothers would like it to be that easy!

Honestly, yeah, probably.

[Karger he/him]

Although Syl says the presses is "less messy" you are creating a sentient individual so I doubt it is simple.  Also spren take centuries to age without a bond I imagine many parents would be a bit put off with that.

[+Invocation]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Although Syl says the presses is "less messy" you are creating a sentient individual so I doubt it is simple.  Also spren take centuries to age without a bond I imagine many parents would be a bit put off with that.

Many are. She does remark that it isn't very frequent for spren to have children.

[Pathfinder]

15 hours ago, RShara said:

Syl bonded him too young, he died in his first battle. While it doesn't say specifically that he was her first bondmate, it's pretty firmly implied imo. I mean, unless she had the misfortune to bond multiple people who died shortly, and the first ones somehow didn't cause the trauma of the last one.

 

15 hours ago, Calderis said:

@Pathfinder honestly, I'd have to call it a contradiction in the text.

Notum's story about Syl makes it clear that She bonded the old man, and his desth left her in a coma for centuries. Considering the tough timing of the recreance, possibly millenia. 

  Reveal hidden contents

The Stormfather created only a handful of children. All of these, save Sylphrena, were destroyed in the Recreance, becoming deadeyes. This loss stung the Stormfather, who didn’t create again for centuries. When he was finally moved to remake the honorspren, he created only ten more. My great-grandmother was among them; she created my grandfather, who created my father, who eventually created me.
“It was only recently, even by your reckoning, that the Ancient Daughter was rediscovered. Asleep. So, in answer to your question, yes, Sylphrena is both old and young. Old of form, but young of mind. She is not ready to deal with humans, and certainly not ready for a bond. I wouldn’t trust myself with one of those.”

I find it very hard to reconcile that with the idea that she had previous bondmates, as they still consider her "too young" for the bond. 

Edit: and R found the thing I was looking for but didn't know what to search for. Well done. 

This is a response to @RShara and @calderis in one go. Lol I found it late last night. I was having trouble locating it because I couldn't think of the right search terms, so ended up having to type in Syl and go entry by entry by the time I got there. You both are totally right, and I happily concede and have learned something more. My one consolation is that the WoB shows I wasn't completely nuts and got the idea from somewhere lol. Thank you both for going through the trouble of pulling up the scenes! I do appreciate it. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Pathfinder