StormblessedSurvivor he/him Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 So I'm rereading WoR, and i just passed the part where Hoid comes to Shallan and delivers a message from Helaran. Hoid specifically tells Shallan Quote "You do not yet understand the nature of lies. I had that trouble myself, long ago. The Shards here are very strict. You will have to see the truth, child, before you can expand upon it." Could Hoid once have tried to bond a spren (a Cryptic)? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mailnaise she/her Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) You've got a big storm coming...I'm pretty sure you've read OB at this point but since you're asking this question, idk, so...yeah spoilers for OB Spoiler Fun fact, at the end of OB, he DID bond a cryptic. That cryptic was the whole reason Kholinar was being targeted and destoyed~the enemy wanted that crptic to avoid another Knight Radiant. It was in the physical realm because it was going to bond to Elhokar, but since ya know, he died, the cryptic was just kinda hanging out at that point, so while people were searching for the spren Hoid came and swooped in and took it himself. He's a lightweaver, of course. But yeah from that quote you put in, maybe he tried to bond one in the past as well. Edited January 24, 2019 by Mailnaise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormblessedSurvivor he/him Posted January 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 Yeah I've read OB, that quote just seemed like he may have in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 Yes, the wording there does seem rather purposefully ambiguous. It could also be read that Hoid previously struggled with mastering his Yolen based lightweaving power in a similar manner as Shallan. The question becomes whether the sentence "the shards here are very strict" is referring to just Shallan's current situation or Hoid's past experiences also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormblessedSurvivor he/him Posted January 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 It specifically says the "nature of lies", I don't know if Yolish Lightweaving would be connected to lies like the Surgebinding version is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ILuvHats he/him Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 I don’t think Hoid is talking about the Lightweaver oaths/truths. Whenever you lightweave you create a lie. An illusion is nothing more than an elaborate deception intended to be believable. So I don’t think the fact that Hoid references “the nature of lies” means he can’t be referencing Yolish lightweaving since lightweaving in any form is intrinsically related to lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter she/her Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 the current rough draft of Hoid's early backstory is literally called the Liar of Partinel, so it's not like Hoid's never been associated with lying before.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 11 minutes ago, ILuvHats said: I don’t think Hoid is talking about the Lightweaver oaths/truths. Whenever you lightweave you create a lie. An illusion is nothing more than an elaborate deception intended to be believable. So I don’t think the fact that Hoid references “the nature of lies” means he can’t be referencing Yolish lightweaving since lightweaving in any form is intrinsically related to lying. Agreed. The nature and power of Lies is a common Cosmere theme, it's even at the heart of Forgery (one of the more potent powers around) which is described as crafting a believable Lie about the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 hours ago, Quantus said: Agreed. The nature and power of Lies is a common Cosmere theme, it's even at the heart of Forgery (one of the more potent powers around) which is described as crafting a believable Lie about the target. Yep and just like Forgery I think the power of the lie is based on how detailed and probable it is. Rather than creating something purely false, you're creating an alternate perspective of the truth. In a way it seems very similar to alternate versions of self that an allomancer sees when they burn gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 11 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said: Yep and just like Forgery I think the power of the lie is based on how detailed and probable it is. Rather than creating something purely false, you're creating an alternate perspective of the truth. In a way it seems very similar to alternate versions of self that an allomancer sees when they burn gold. Honestly I think we've see Shallan do this to people more than once, and I dont think it even has any real Investiture involved, but several times she's drawn a picture of somebody that was almost them, but really it's a version of themselves they'd rather be, and in so doing I think she (or really They) have changed their Self Image, altering their Cognitive and Spiritual Aspects accordingly. We saw her do this with several of her men, and even with Elhokar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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