Ashertliden Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 In the Hemalurgy table from the leather-bound Hero of Ages, it's shown that a Lerasium spike "steals all abilities." Given that the Hemalurgy Table is "an in-world chart according to the knowledge of some people at a certain stage in the history of Scadrial," according to Peter Ahlstrom, at some point in Scadrial's history someone must have fashioned a lerasium spike. I don't believe the chart is from MBE1, given the lack of both lerasium and hemalurgic knowledge. Thus, I believe at some point Harmony must have begun again producing lerasium and possibly atium. These metals seem like too powerful a potential weapon against the Set or other enemies for him to ignore, and otherwise it should be impossible for the knowledge of a lerasium hemalurgic spike to become available to the creator of the chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 It could be that they just asked Harmony what a lerasium spike would do until he told them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mailnaise she/her Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 30 minutes ago, Invocation said: It could be that they just asked Harmony what a lerasium spike would do until he told them. They would also have to know what Lerasium was, and I haven't heard it mentioned at all. Although I suppose the kandra could know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Mailnaise said: They would also have to know what Lerasium was, and I haven't heard it mentioned at all. Marsh might have known. Kell knew. Spook probably would have known from that, and wasn't it supposed to be Spook's book that chart was based on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mailnaise she/her Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Invocation said: wasn't it supposed to be Spook's book that chart was based on? I didn't know that, but it makes a lot of sense. 36 minutes ago, Invocation said: It could be that they just asked Harmony what a lerasium spike would do until he told them. Yeah, I second that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, Mailnaise said: Yeah, I second that It would be the easiest way to do it, honestly. Just bug the big guy, asking him if he would rather just tell you the answer or make you go experiment. 1 hour ago, Ashertliden said: Thus, I believe at some point Harmony must have begun again producing lerasium and possibly atium. I actually have a theory that the beads the Lord Ruler had when he moved the Well weren't the only Lerasium beads around. It seems like Preservation would have made sure there were enough beads plus some extra in case his foresight was wrong. Plus, there weren't 16 beads that we know of, which, given Leras's obsession with signaling about the number 16 in stuff, would have made a lot more sense. Counting the 9 given to the original nobles, the one Hoid stole, and the one Elend burned, there's still 5 around somewhere, theoretically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mailnaise she/her Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Invocation said: I actually have a theory that the beads the Lord Ruler had when he moved the Well weren't the only Lerasium beads around. It seems like Preservation would have made sure there were enough beads plus some extra in case his foresight was wrong. Plus, there weren't 16 beads that we know of, which, given Leras's obsession with signaling about the number 16 in stuff, would have made a lot more sense. Counting the 9 given to the original nobles, the one Hoid stole, and the one Elend burned, there's still 5 around somewhere, theoretically. The Cosmere is so number oriented, it seems strange that it wouldn't be sixteen. Preservation did so many things in sixteens, it looks so out of place not being a confirmed 16. I'd bet money that there are definitely 5 more like you said. Oh! And I may be remembering this wrong, but didn't burned atium show up back in the Pits of Hasthin? It's Ruin's body, it wouldn't just disapear, so maybe we can make the same argument for Preservation~maybe there are still 16 or so peices of Lerasium that have renewed their physical form since Leras died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashertliden Posted January 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 31 minutes ago, Mailnaise said: They would also have to know what Lerasium was, and I haven't heard it mentioned at all. Although I suppose the kandra could know. I'm not entirely sure, but I believe either Lerasium or Atium is mentioned as either missing or mentioned in the Words of Founding in MBE2. The quote from Peter, although it may not be 100% reliable, does state that the chart is an in-world chart based on the knowledge of "some people," which seems to imply that it isn't a Kandra document. (Both for the reasons that they could be considered as "non-people" and for the fact that it would be pointless for them to have a hemalurgy chart. 32 minutes ago, Invocation said: Marsh might have known. Kell knew. Spook probably would have known from that, and wasn't it supposed to be Spook's book that chart was based on? It is possible that Marsh may have known, but his knowledge of Hemalurgy comes from his inquisitor experiences, and I don't believe that any of the inquisitors had a Lerasium spike. As for him learning after the Catacendre, which is, admittedly possible, he would've had to obtain the Lerasium somewhere, and the phrasing of the "some people" quote again seems to imply more than one person. As for Kel, he had minimal knowledge of Hemalurgy prior to his death, it still seems unlikely that he would've found out what a Lerasium spike can do without assistance from Harmony. I hadn't seen any evidence of the chart being from Spook's book, do you by any chance have some? 1 hour ago, Invocation said: It could be that they just asked Harmony what a lerasium spike would do until he told them. It seems unlikely to me both that Harmony would make this information available and that it would be included on the in-world chart if there was no way of obtaining Lerasium. 1 hour ago, Mailnaise said: Oh! And I may be remembering this wrong, but didn't burned atium show up back in the Pits of Hasthin? It's Ruin's body, it wouldn't just disapear, so maybe we can make the same argument for Preservation~maybe there are still 16 or so peices of Lerasium that have renewed their physical form since Leras died. Eventually it would have, but production stopped after the Catacendre. However, it is still possible for Harmony to create more beads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 Dozens of possible sources of how whoever wrote the chart knew about Lerasium Hemalurgy. It could be Harmony(unlikely considering he disapproves of his own magic system .. or so he may pretend as he is still a shard who plans like millions of possibilities.. all shards are like that even the nice ones holdback alot of information or a bunch of actors), it could be Marsh ( think he might be the most knowledgeable outside of Harmony considering he has the most hemalurgic experience of them all and well you see Ruin personally puppeting you are bound to learn stuff) and the maybe the most possible Spook/Kelsier(the knowledge did come from them). I'm more fascinated by the fact that Lerasium works just as good as Atium which is personally the same essence as Hemalurgy. Gives me a clue that all godmetals might have the same capabilities as Trellium also so far showed just about any allomantic/feruchemical abilties. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mailnaise she/her Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 11 hours ago, goody153 said: and the maybe the most possible Spook/Kelsier(the knowledge did come from them). This makes a lot of sense to me because they were researching how to get Kel's body back, right? Makes sense that they would find information like what Lerasium is and it's hemalurgic properties along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin he/him Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mailnaise said: This makes a lot of sense to me because they were researching how to get Kel's body back, right? Makes sense that they would find information like what Lerasium is and it's hemalurgic properties along the way. I think it's definitely the most plausible in-world conclusion - that the chart is rooted in Spook's research with Ghost Kelsier, who had Ascended and knew a lot more about a lot of things than he had as a mortal. He admitted he "hadn't focused" on the mechanics of hemalurgy (Ruin's magic) or "he'd have it all figured out", but "knew enough to be dangerous", and one of the parts of "knew enough" would likely be all the effects of "lerasium", the god-metal of the very Shard he had held. I doubt the physical metal was available to them to test, and if they did come across an actual bead of lerasium, wouldn't they have used it to make more Mistborn rather than making a spike out of it to steal "all abilities" from someone in a world where Spook was the only full Mistborn and there were no living full Feruchemists? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 minute ago, robardin said: I doubt the physical metal was available to them to test, and if they did come across an actual bead of lerasium, wouldn't they have used it to make more Mistborn rather than making a spike out of it to steal "all abilities" from someone in a world where Spook was the only full Mistborn and there were no living full Feruchemists? I doubt it. Kelsier is just vain enough to like himself and Spook to be the only two with access to the power of all Allomantic abilities, plus a lerasium Mistborn would have overshadowed Kell himself, and he wouldn't have liked that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin he/him Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 41 minutes ago, Invocation said: I doubt it. Kelsier is just vain enough to like himself and Spook to be the only two with access to the power of all Allomantic abilities, plus a lerasium Mistborn would have overshadowed Kell himself, and he wouldn't have liked that. Not sure if that applies to Spook, but the point is still relevant that there wasn't any Metalborn with more than one ability to steal that would warrant wasting an ultrarare metal to spike for "all" of their abilities. Just hold on to it. The only really good use of a lerasium spike after the Catacendre would be if they got a hold of a Full Feruchemist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 Note Abilities vs. Powers. That isn’t an accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: Note Abilities vs. Powers. That isn’t an accident. No word choice is ever an accident in Sanderson writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 Exactly! Someone needs to ask about this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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