If Maya revives, will she be the same?

[Calderis he/him]

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

I need a little clarity on this statement. Are you saying that the ten heart beat limit would be beaten in that it should take longer all the time, or that because it is based on the speed of light then there would be no variation in heartbeats?

I'm saying that with it being based on the speed of light, any difference in time frame on the world of Roshar would be minute enough to not be noticeable. 

As far as my consistency comment that was in regards to the 7 heartbeats during the perpendicularity, in which case all three times Adolin summoned his blade should have been at the 7 heartbeats, not just the last.

I apologize for the confusion, I made an argument about how the perpendicularity was not to blame for this, and I understood your responses as saying it was a part of it. 

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

Again, where in the book or WoB does it conclusively say “Contact with a person with an active Nahel bond pushes a spren closer to life”.

It's not quite that explicit, but here you go. 

Quote

Questioner

Why does the Shardbearer-- when they are dueling with Adolin and Renarin-- Why does the Shardbearer freak out when Kaladin grabs the sword? The <Shardbearer> like... He screams, and he's like, "I didn't kill you", and ran away.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Why does he do that?

Brandon Sanderson

Because when Kaladin was there, and they were touching it, they actually heard the spren that was inside of it. Right? Because when an--

Questioner

So it wasn't Syl that he heard, it was the sword.

Brandon Sanderson

It was the sword's spren... that Kaladin was touching it. When the Knight Radiant touches it-- You can see when other Knights Radiant pick up swords, they can hear the screaming.

Salt Lake City signing (March 29, 2014)

Radiants hear the spren, and as Relis shows, anyone bonded to the blade when they touch it will as well. 

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

Why can’t a radiant just hold onto a dead spren blade really long, and that be how it is brought back to life? Doesn’t that occur with Renarin? He had a shardblade while being bonded to a radiant spren and he held it for the requisite time period to bond it, and even more so. So why is a radiant touching a shardblade returning it to life briefly, but for Adolin it is a continual effect? Why for Adolin is it a continual effect that will result in permanence with revival? Please elaborate on your statement.

The difference is that the Radiant is not bonding the spren of that blade. The spren needs a bond to revive, in my opinion. A resonant effect with a similar type of Connection does not grant them that Connection no matter how long it's present. They need a bond of their own, which is what Adolin is providing. 

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

So now you are saying the reason the blade is reviving is because he spoke to it in person? How does that not negate all the time he spent speaking to it and acting honorably before hand? If he never ended up in the cognitive realm, are you saying he would have never been able to revive Maya? For me that sounds more far fetched. The shear chances that Adolin would end up in the right place at the right time and act the right way during that time to result in Maya starting to awaken is a bit much to me. But that is why it doesn’t sit right for me. I readily realize and respect it could work for you. Please confirm that is what you meant by that statement as well.

It's not one or the other, it's both. The level of respect and reverence with which he treats his blade before Shadesmar were seemingly unique. Then he sees her in Shadesmar, overcomes his initial reaction to her, and still treats her as not only a tool, but a friend. 

Yes, it is remarkably remote chances, which is exactly why it hasn't happened before, and why it's viewed as an impossibility in world. 

[insert_anagram_here]

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

As far as my consistency comment that was in regards to the 7 heartbeats during the perpendicularity, in which case all three times Adolin summoned his blade should have been at the 7 heartbeats, not just the last.

You are conveniently forgetting that it's about being 'self-aware' of that ability in order to make it work. Because he heard her name, he started believing that she could come sooner and in the urgency of that moment, he 'willed' her to come sooner. So it boils down to 'why' there is that Connection there. You say it's because it's a nahel bond, I still continue to believe it's because of the Bondsmith's Adhesion.  From the Coppermind:

Quote

the Feruchemist, while tapping Connection allows the Feruchemist to form trusting relationships quickly

 

[Winds Alight she/her]

54 minutes ago, insert_anagram_here said:

Because he heard her name, he started believing that she could come sooner and in the urgency of that moment, he 'willed' her to come sooner.

I'm pretty certain he learned her name after summoning her in under ten beats.

Considering Maya's reaction in Shadesmare when Adolin was hurt, I don't think Dalinar's perpendicularity shenanigans was the main reason.
There was just too much from book one to now about how Adolin regarded his blade for me to possibly believe that there's not something more to their bond than between most other shardbearer and blade.

Regardless, something is going on between them, and we can't possibly know what will be the end of it, so RAFO that.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Winds Alight

[insert_anagram_here]

1 hour ago, Winds Alight said:

I'm pretty certain he learned her name after summoning her in under ten beats.

Considering Maya's reaction in Shadesmare when Adolin was hurt, I don't think Dalinar's perpendicularity shenanigans was the main reason.
There was just too much from book one to now about how Adolin regarded his blade for me to possibly believe that there's not something more to their bond than between most other shardbearer and blade.

Regardless, something is going on between them, and we can't possibly know what will be the end of it, so RAFO that.

Sorry, you are actually remembering incorrectly.

Quote

Something tickled his mind, very faint, like a sigh. A single word: Mayalaran. A . . . name? Location 22743

Quote

Seven. Maya! he thought, truly desperate. Please! Location 22862

[Winds Alight she/her]

But it was during the process of summoning, right? Not before Adolin started it?

Well, I still think that Dalinar's Bondsmithing might've helped, but it's certainly not the only reason. Meaning: Adolin was the only Shardbearer during the battle at Thaylen City to experience something like this, because his bond with Maya already was special and different from what's considered "normal".

Edited February 9, 2019 by Winds Alight

[Guest]

I don't think the interesting question to ask is, whether or not some other Shardbearer observed the same, but rather if the summoning speed reversed back to 10 heartbeats after the battle. A healing process would suggest it did not, wouldn't it?

[Sedside she/her]

1 hour ago, Winds Alight said:

But it was during the process of summoning, right? Not before Adolin started it?

It was after he summoned it when he first time started fighing the thunderclast. He was talking to her about it and assumed that she was designed for fighting them. Before that and 7 heartbeats were several other PoVs, it was not in the same episode.

[Winds Alight she/her]

32 minutes ago, SLNC said:

I don't think the interesting question to ask is, whether or not some other Shardbearer observed the same, but rather if the summoning speed reversed back to 10 heartbeats after the battle. A healing process would suggest it did not, wouldn't it?

That's a question we'll have to wait for book 4 to be answered. I'd say the summoning time didn't revert back to ten beats.

[Calderis he/him]

2 hours ago, SLNC said:

I don't think the interesting question to ask is, whether or not some other Shardbearer observed the same, but rather if the summoning speed reversed back to 10 heartbeats after the battle. A healing process would suggest it did not, wouldn't it?

Considering it seemed to be a choice, which implies effort, I don't think it would be a question of reversion. It should revert back to the baseline when she's not trying. But can she do it again? 

I think she can, but we'll have to wait and see. I don't think it's going to be a permanent change until she's more fully healed though. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Considering it seemed to be a choice, which implies effort, I don't think it would be a question of reversion. It should revert back to the baseline when she's not trying. But can she do it again? 

I think she can, but we'll have to wait and see. I don't think it's going to be a permanent change until she's more fully healed though. 

I still don't get how her potentially choosing to come faster irrevocably denotes a healing process, as it is presented by its proponents here. If there was a bond forming, it would be a permanent change of state and if it was a singular effort done by Maya, it would be a temporary change of state, which you seem to think it is.

[CrazyRioter she/her]

42 minutes ago, SLNC said:

I still don't get how her potentially choosing to come faster irrevocably denotes a healing process, as it is presented by its proponents here. If there was a bond forming, it would be a permanent change of state and if it was a singular effort done by Maya, it would be a temporary change of state, which you seem to think it is.

I don't think she would have the capacity to make that choice if she was not healing.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, CrazyRioter said:

I don't think she would have the capacity to make that choice if she was not healing.

Well, I don't even think it was her that did it, but rather Adolin's urgency. Aside from the perpendicularity, that is another oddity in all of that. It was the first time, that he *really* urged to get her faster into the Physical Realm. Remember that the gemstone bond basically forces the spren to transcend into the Physical Realm, where it manifests as the Shardblade.

I know it's romantic to believe, that it was Maya willing herself to come to Adolin's aid, but it isn't the only possibility.

[deacon he/him]

5 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Well, I don't even think it was her that did it, but rather Adolin's urgency. Aside from the perpendicularity, that is another oddity in all of that. It was the first time, that he *really* urged to get her faster into the Physical Realm. Remember that the gemstone bond basically forces the spren to transcend into the Physical Realm, where it manifests as the Shardblade.

I know it's romantic to believe, that it was Maya willing herself to come to Adolin's aid, but it isn't the only possibility.

Well, why couldn't it be both? Why does it have to be one or the other? It can have a nice romantic reason and a cold logical reason at the same time. Insofar as I'm understanding the arguments here, I'm sure many people with Shardblades have desperately needed their Blades to come faster than the ten heartbeats and it didn't work that way. I'm sure people even at the Perpendicularity would've likely wanted their Blades coming much faster and there was no response. It sounds very likely it can be both Adolin desperately needing it and Maya recognizing that need and hurrying the process along.

Also this topic has been so interesting to follow! The other book series forums don't have as much fun character discussions at all.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, deacon said:

Insofar as I'm understanding the arguments here, I'm sure many people with Shardblades have desperately needed their Blades to come faster than the ten heartbeats and it didn't work that way. I'm sure people even at the Perpendicularity would've likely wanted their Blades coming much faster and there was no response. It sounds very likely it can be both Adolin desperately needing it and Maya recognizing that need and hurrying the process along.

Sorry, doesn't convince me. You can't be "sure" about something like this. There is no evidence, that any other Shardbearers actively urged their blade along like Adolin did. It is a claim being made to support a certain theory and discredit others.

[deacon he/him]

Just now, SLNC said:

Sorry, doesn't convince me. You can't be "sure" about something like this. There is no evidence, that any other Shardbearers actively urged their blade along like Adolin did. It is a claim being made to support a certain theory and discredit others.

That's okay. We don't all have to agree with each other or be convinced. I've seen plenty of arguments that didn't convince me, but it's easy to just walk away and say "we'll see in SA4" haha. That's how I feel about it all, anyway.

[Guest]

Well, my issue with the whole discussion is, that it's so focused on the wished outcome, that everything gets bent to fit to that and everyone, who dissents gets dogpiled and is on the defensive, until they are so annoyed that they leave.

Edited February 9, 2019 by SLNC

[deacon he/him]

Do you think people on the other side of the conversation ever get annoyed and leave, too? I'm sure it happens, too. Are there people who wish for it not to happen? Everyone has biases; it doesn't make the arguments any of us make inherently illogical because we have an opinion about what we want or don't want to see.

Edited for extra clarity

Edited February 9, 2019 by deacon

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I find it incredibly unlikely that people have not urged their blades to appear faster in the past. Granted it's not common to personify one's Blade to the degree Adolin did even before he learned about the origins of Shardblades, but lots of people have a subconscious tendency to personify objects to some degree. How often do people urge their computers, appliances or what have you to work faster even though logically they know it's an inanimate object.

[Calderis he/him]

If all it took was urgency, then every shardbearer in battle would have summoned them under the limit numerous times.

[Mage of Lirigon he/him]

6 hours ago, SLNC said:

I know it's romantic to believe, that it was Maya willing herself to come to Adolin's aid, but it isn't the only possibility.

It's not just being romantic. We've seen Maya defend Adolin before. 

 

5 hours ago, CrazyRioter said:

I find it incredibly unlikely that people have not urged their blades to appear faster in the past. Granted it's not common to personify one's Blade to the degree Adolin did even before he learned about the origins of Shardblades, but lots of people have a subconscious tendency to personify objects to some degree. How often do people urge their computers, appliances or what have you to work faster even though logically they know it's an inanimate object.

Yeah!

I can't tell the number of times I've wanted my computer or phone to do things faster. I find it impossible to believe that no one has wanted their Shardblade to do the same. 

[Winds Alight she/her]

16 hours ago, CrazyRioter said:

I find it incredibly unlikely that people have not urged their blades to appear faster in the past. Granted it's not common to personify one's Blade to the degree Adolin did even before he learned about the origins of Shardblades, but lots of people have a subconscious tendency to personify objects to some degree. How often do people urge their computers, appliances or what have you to work faster even though logically they know it's an inanimate object.

I agree with this.

You can't possibly tell me that no Shardbearer in mortal danger ever was like "OMG why can't this come faster than within ten heartbeats pl-" and then be cut down by their enemy at the seventh heartbeat or so.
Mortal danger alone is not enough.

[Pathfinder]

So I have a lot to catch up on, and am going to do my best to try and make this as coherent as possible. The first portion will be a direct response to @Calderis in the same format as before so I may respond to each point without having to try to multiple quote him and separate them, and well make a mess lol. Then I will follow up with direct quotes to individuals that have responded further while I was away. There, now that the process has been established, to begin!

 

I'm saying that with it being based on the speed of light, any difference in time frame on the world of Roshar would be minute enough to not be noticeable. 

As far as my consistency comment that was in regards to the 7 heartbeats during the perpendicularity, in which case all three times Adolin summoned his blade should have been at the 7 heartbeats, not just the last.

I apologize for the confusion, I made an argument about how the perpendicularity was not to blame for this, and I understood your responses as saying it was a part of it. 

I understand, and agree it would not be noticeable, but with the correct tools (which I acknowledge at this stage in their technological advancements they do not have), it can be measured. It the measurement only becomes noticeable in such an extreme situation such going to an entirely different planet for distance. Such a distance would result in 3 years passing before the blade would appear. We are talking about 3 heart beats worth of speed increase. I maintain that it is a reasonable possibility that the realms being brought closer together could potentially decrease this "distance" and result in Maya coming sooner. Now the point of me pointing that out, is to show Maya being summoned under 10 heartbeats could potentially be attributed to something other than healing. Which is why "Maya is healing" is a supposition. Now also to clarify, I did not type that to beat a dead horse, but to clarify the entire purpose of me starting this discussion with you to begin with. I am not the verbal police. I am not here to tell you how you are allowed to talk. All I am doing is calling attention to how the language chosen is read. Maya healing is a theory. One you have worked hard on, and researched and I genuinely and truly wish you luck with it. But is still a theory. And I do not label it as such in a derogatory manner, nor to belittle the work you did in coming to its conclusion, but to label it accurately. No problem on the confusion, it happens. 

  On 2/8/2019 at 9:29 PM, Pathfinder said:

It's not quite that explicit, but here you go. 

  Quote

Questioner

Why does the Shardbearer-- when they are dueling with Adolin and Renarin-- Why does the Shardbearer freak out when Kaladin grabs the sword? The <Shardbearer> like... He screams, and he's like, "I didn't kill you", and ran away.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Why does he do that?

Brandon Sanderson

Because when Kaladin was there, and they were touching it, they actually heard the spren that was inside of it. Right? Because when an--

Questioner

So it wasn't Syl that he heard, it was the sword.

Brandon Sanderson

It was the sword's spren... that Kaladin was touching it. When the Knight Radiant touches it-- You can see when other Knights Radiant pick up swords, they can hear the screaming.

Salt Lake City signing (March 29, 2014)

Radiants hear the spren, and as Relis shows, anyone bonded to the blade when they touch it will as well. 

And I completely agree with all of that, but with all due respect that is not what you stated, or you misunderstood my own statement. Yes when Relis (when Kaladin touched the blade, and Dalinar (a bonded radiant), and Renarin (a bonded radiant)  touched a dead shardblade they heard screaming. The difference between the three is while Relis heard it yell "I didn't kill you!" (which as we know Relis did not in fact kill his shardblade), Kaladin just heard screaming, and we are given the implication that Renarin only hears screaming, Dalinar on the other hand heard whimpering that the Stormfather translated into remembering the oaths you had made and broken, and so it hates you less than it hates most. Now that is not an exact quote, but if you would like for reference I will be happy to follow up with it. With Relis, the blade is just remembering the pain of its dead and screaming. Kaladin only hears screaming. Renarin (I believe) would hear only screaming. Dalinar on the other hand, he is remembered. The stormfather says it is actively hating him less. That denotes to me a greater degree of recognition wouldn't you say when compared to Relis? A degree of recognition I think we begin to see too with Maya. The shardbearer is potentially going from just the possessor of the blade, to an identified individual by the dead spren. So I still maintain that I think what happened between Dalinar and Oathbringer, is similar to what is happening with Maya and Adolin.

 

The difference is that the Radiant is not bonding the spren of that blade. The spren needs a bond to revive, in my opinion. A resonant effect with a similar type of Connection does not grant them that Connection no matter how long it's present. They need a bond of their own, which is what Adolin is providing. 

See that is where this discussion took an interesting turn for me. When we refer to the WoB where Sanderson discusses what happens when a shardblade is summoned, he says the reason for the ten heartbeats is that is how long it takes to revive the spren. Revive is the word he chose to use. How does an average person bond a dead shardblade? They use a gemstone with stormlight and keep the blade with them for about a week or so (I cannot recall off the top of my head the exact duration). After that the gemstone is no longer needed, it is purely ornamentation. However, you can walk around with the dead shardblade as long as you want, but without the gemstone (from what we are told), no bond will form. That reads to me, that the investiture in the gemstone in the form of stormlight, helps fuel/build the Connection between the person and the blade. That allows the person to now summon and dismiss it. The connection would not have formed if the person did not spend every moment with that blade, regardless of the stormlight charged gemstone. It maintains in the book that the bond requires constant presence with the blade during that time for it to form. That, to me, adds to my theory that by strengthening the Connection of the faux bond with Maya, coupled with a greater infusion of investiture which could only be supercharged by a bondsmith, would rebuild the bond allowing for a true living spren bond. So basically I posit and maintain that I think in order to revive Maya, they need to build on the process that in my opinion began it. 

  On 2/8/2019 at 9:29 PM, Pathfinder said:

So now you are saying the reason the blade is reviving is because he spoke to it in person? How does that not negate all the time he spent speaking to it and acting honorably before hand? If he never ended up in the cognitive realm, are you saying he would have never been able to revive Maya? For me that sounds more far fetched. The shear chances that Adolin would end up in the right place at the right time and act the right way during that time to result in Maya starting to awaken is a bit much to me. But that is why it doesn’t sit right for me. I readily realize and respect it could work for you. Please confirm that is what you meant by that statement as well.

It's not one or the other, it's both. The level of respect and reverence with which he treats his blade before Shadesmar were seemingly unique. Then he sees her in Shadesmar, overcomes his initial reaction to her, and still treats her as not only a tool, but a friend. 

Yes, it is remarkably remote chances, which is exactly why it hasn't happened before, and why it's viewed as an impossibility in world. 

I guess what I was asking is, are you positing that had Adolin not gone into the cognitive realm (which lead to as you said him talking to Maya and seeing her as a person), Maya would not have come in less heartbeats, spoke her name, and etc? Or to put it another way, do you feel had Adolin not gone to the cognitive realm, but still on his own came to view Maya as a person and treat her as such, she would not have come in less heart beats, spoke her name, and etc?

 

So after typing my response to @Calderis I attempted to multi quote and it ended up putting all of them up top screwing up my formatting, so I will make a separate post and hope an understanding Moderator will very nicely combine them at a later time. Thank you in advance!

 

On 2/9/2019 at 1:42 PM, deacon said:

Well, why couldn't it be both? Why does it have to be one or the other? It can have a nice romantic reason and a cold logical reason at the same time. Insofar as I'm understanding the arguments here, I'm sure many people with Shardblades have desperately needed their Blades to come faster than the ten heartbeats and it didn't work that way. I'm sure people even at the Perpendicularity would've likely wanted their Blades coming much faster and there was no response. It sounds very likely it can be both Adolin desperately needing it and Maya recognizing that need and hurrying the process along.

Also this topic has been so interesting to follow! The other book series forums don't have as much fun character discussions at all.

 

On 2/9/2019 at 2:05 PM, CrazyRioter said:

I find it incredibly unlikely that people have not urged their blades to appear faster in the past. Granted it's not common to personify one's Blade to the degree Adolin did even before he learned about the origins of Shardblades, but lots of people have a subconscious tendency to personify objects to some degree. How often do people urge their computers, appliances or what have you to work faster even though logically they know it's an inanimate object.

 

On 2/9/2019 at 3:43 PM, Calderis said:

If all it took was urgency, then every shardbearer in battle would have summoned them under the limit numerous times.

 

On 2/9/2019 at 7:59 PM, Mage of Lirigon said:

It's not just being romantic. We've seen Maya defend Adolin before. 

 

Yeah!

I can't tell the number of times I've wanted my computer or phone to do things faster. I find it impossible to believe that no one has wanted their Shardblade to do the same. 

 

On 2/10/2019 at 6:42 AM, Winds Alight said:

I agree with this.

You can't possibly tell me that no Shardbearer in mortal danger ever was like "OMG why can't this come faster than within ten heartbeats pl-" and then be cut down by their enemy at the seventh heartbeat or so.
Mortal danger alone is not enough.

So I quoted a bunch of people but my response is for all of them. Technically we have seen a difference in summoning when there is a need. When you are in danger, or anxious or what have you, what happens to your body? Your heart rate increases. What do we know happens when you summon a blade? It comes in ten heartbeats. As in the exact number. Not a time frame, a count. If your heart beats 10 times in 10 seconds (just throwing numbers out arbitrarily to illustrate a point), then the blade comes in 10 seconds. If your heart beats 10 times in 5 seconds, then the blade comes sooner in 5 seconds. The need is greater, and as result of your emotions or exertion your heart rate increases, leading to you summoning your blade faster. Even then, as per the WoB which I will post below for everyone's reference, the need could have resulted in a faster summons (lesser number of heartbeats), just until that point the difference was so tiny (let us say a tenth of a heart beat sooner) as to be unnoticed but not incalculable. Once the realms were brought closer together, potentially because of the distance decrease, the decrease in time was then noticed. 

edit: gotta run for a sec. when i get back i will add the WoB

So while I was pulling up that WoB, I actually found a bunch more that are very interesting and I feel is pertinent to this thread. Shown all below, and bolded the parts I think are pertinent

Edit2: now that I have a chance, I will add in blue my thoughts on each of the WoB I posted. 

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
Is there any effect on a Shardblade if the deadeye is really far away from where the Blade is?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Define really.
Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
The one that's trapped on the ship. Let's say they're taking him to the far side of Shadesmar, but the dude that owns that Blade lives in <inaudible>.
Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
We will deal with that in the books. There is an effect, but that's not enough of an effect.
Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW]
Considering no one says that their Shardblade is acting weird in two and a half thousand years.
Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
That happens all the time in Shadesmar. If you were able to get it off the planet, it would have an effect.
Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
If you as the owner of the Shardblade were offworld and you tried to summon it, that would be the effect?
Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Either way. But you can't take spren off-world. I mean, you can, but you can't really. Really all that I have in the notes for it to do right now, is to add slightly more time. So you're like, "That's weird that felt like not ten heartbeats, it felt like twelve."
But it's like, you're on another planet, then it's suddenly speed of light type stuff. So suddenly it's like, "This is taking three years instead. That's a pretty big deal!"
So I've got a few weird speed of light things mixed into the cosmere, and that's one of them

So the above reads to me that there is an effect based on distance, just normally it is so small as to go unnoticed for the most part. However, just because it has not been noticed before, does not mean it never occurred before. By the realms being closer together, that was the little bit of extra closeness that the change was more noticeable. So it would be like taking an ice cube, and leaving it in a room that is slightly above freezing. It would melt, but you would need to watch it with a speed time elapsed camera to see the change over time. Meanwhile put it in a room that is a few more degrees above freezing, and the melting becomes more apparent. 
Phantine
Silly shardblade question: Dick Cheney's artificial heart was a continuous flow model, which meant he had no pulse. If you gave him a shardblade, how would summoning it work?
Brandon Sanderson
You know, I've actually had to think about this. (Not because of Cheney, but because of cosmere applications.) Just as blind people dream differently from people without visuals, I feel a shardbearer without a pulse would end up having another method of representing the way their soul reaches toward a dead shardblade and summons it. But it would vary based on the individual

The big take away for this one for me is the "their soul reaches toward a dead shardblade and summons it". I think that could come into play with a whole host of theories. From those that posit Adolin would be filling Maya's cracks instead, to the theories that say she is healing, and those that say she is not. Not saying this WoB proves or disproves any of those theories. I just think all of the theories could find something in this WoB to add to their own.   
Kaladin al'Thor
I noticed my last time reading Words of Radiance that there were several times-- vines that were on Adolin's shardblade as he summoned it. So I was wondering if maybe the Radiant who used it had was an Edgedancer?
Brandon Sanderson
You are right.
Kaladin al'Thor
You mentioned before that it would be possible to revive a dead shard[blade], but it would be very difficult--
Brandon Sanderson
Very difficult.
Kaladin al'Thor
Like I think what you said is that it would have to be the same person that broke the bond?
Brandon Sanderson
That would be the-- Yeah.
Kaladin al'Thor
So if it was an Edgedancer's blade if he made those same oaths could potentially he…
Brandon Sanderson
That would most likely not be enough. Something else would have to happen. Good guess though.

So I am open to disagreement and would love to hear the responses, but is it safe to say this is pretty cut and dry that making the oaths alone would not be enough to revive Maya?

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
If you Hemalurgically steal a Shardblade, what <entropy takes place>?
Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Like, if you were going to steal someone's Connection to that Shardblade?
Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
The bond with the Shardblade.
Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
The bond with the Shardblade?
Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
Would it take longer to summon?
Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Well, no, you just wouldn't summon it anymore, the person who got it Hemalurgically would summon it. That would be kind of a wasted use, to get a dead Shardblade. Lot easier ways to do that.
Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
I was just wondering if it would take longer to summon if somebody used Hemalurgy to steal it.
Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Oh, yeah, there's a little bit of leak to it, so probably.
Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
It wouldn't make sense for it to be less sharp.
Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
No.
 

The big take away for me on this one is the "there's a little bit of a leak to it, so probably". Basically a shardblade would potentially take longer to summon because hemalurgy is leaky with investiture. That is poignant to me, because I think that leans towards investiture is needed to bring a dead spren back. if investiture leaking slows it, then an increase investiture could potentially speed it up, or even restore it. At least that is how I read that one. 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Pathfinder

[deacon he/him]

6 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

So I quoted a bunch of people but my response is for all of them. Technically we have seen a difference in summoning when there is a need. When you are in danger, or anxious or what have you, what happens to your body? Your heart rate increases. What do we know happens when you summon a blade? It comes in ten heartbeats. As in the exact number. Not a time frame, a count. If your heart beats 10 times in 10 seconds (just throwing numbers out arbitrarily to illustrate a point), then the blade comes in 10 seconds. If your heart beats 10 times in 5 seconds, then the blade comes sooner in 5 seconds. The need is greater, and as result of your emotions or exertion your heart rate increases, leading to you summoning your blade faster. Even then, as per the WoB which I will post below for everyone's reference, the need could have resulted in a faster summons (lesser number of heartbeats), just until that point the difference was so tiny (let us say a tenth of a heart beat sooner) as to be unnoticed but not incalculable. Once the realms were brought closer together, potentially because of the distance decrease, the decrease in time was then noticed. 

I'm sorry, but I don't find this to be a relevant argument because I don't think anybody was talking in terms of faster summoning in terms of seconds. Obviously many times when filled with adrenaline, ten heartbeats goes faster than when you're relaxed - but it's still ten heartbeats. Under stress or in a relaxed state, seven heartbeats will always go by faster than ten heartbeats. I don't think anyone is arguing that you can say some ten heartbeats are faster than others - but Maya coming faster than ten heartbeats is the first time we've ever seen or heard of this rule being broken. I'm afraid I just don't see how timing it in seconds has any relevance to the question of timing it in heartbeats. We even see in book people talk about how much faster it is to summon their Blades when they're already afraid/in the middle of battle/etc. so this is known information.

Quote

So I am open to disagreement and would love to hear the responses, but is it safe to say this is pretty cut and dry that making the oaths alone would not be enough to revive Maya?

I think so, but I haven't seen anyone in this conversation say just saying the oaths alone would do the trick. I've seen people say forming a nahel bond, swear and live out the first few oaths as well as a full Edgedancer would have (three oaths, I think I saw someone say, because that's when you can make the spren go in and out of Blade form? iirc? I'm not sure), a combination of the oaths AND external healing, but I don't think anyone has been arguing this point.

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
If you Hemalurgically steal a Shardblade, what <entropy takes place>?
Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Like, if you were going to steal someone's Connection to that Shardblade?
Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
The bond with the Shardblade.
Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
The bond with the Shardblade?
Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
Would it take longer to summon?
Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Well, no, you just wouldn't summon it anymore, the person who got it Hemalurgically would summon it. That would be kind of a wasted use, to get a dead Shardblade. Lot easier ways to do that.
Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
I was just wondering if it would take longer to summon if somebody used Hemalurgy to steal it.
Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Oh, yeah, there's a little bit of leak to it, so probably.
Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
It wouldn't make sense for it to be less sharp.
Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
No.
 

The big take away for me on this one is the "there's a little bit of a leak to it, so probably". Basically a shardblade would potentially take longer to summon because hemalurgy is leaky with investiture. That is poignant to me, because I think that leans towards investiture is needed to bring a dead spren back. if investiture leaking slows it, then an increase investiture could potentially speed it up, or even restore it. At least that is how I read that one. 

Actually, in the WoB, Brandon doesn't say that it's investiture that's leaking. I don't think it can be investiture, actually. Spren themselves are investiture. That just doesn't work with the information that we have, especially since Brandon confirms the physical form of the Blade is still intact and the person wouldn't lose bits of the spren. It seems like a much better fit to say that the Connection has a leak, that hemalurgy does an inferior job of taking the bond itself. The gem bond is already an inferior bond to a real living nahel bond, that's why Radiants can summon their spren instantaneously and dead Blades need ten heartbeats to be summoned - it's because the connection is inferior, not the spren itself. The hemalurgy just takes the inferior gem bond and makes it worse. Saying that it's investiture is an idea, but it just doesn't work with what we know about how Shardblades work. 

[Pathfinder]

57 minutes ago, deacon said:

I'm sorry, but I don't find this to be a relevant argument because I don't think anybody was talking in terms of faster summoning in terms of seconds. Obviously many times when filled with adrenaline, ten heartbeats goes faster than when you're relaxed - but it's still ten heartbeats. Under stress or in a relaxed state, seven heartbeats will always go by faster than ten heartbeats. I don't think anyone is arguing that you can say some ten heartbeats are faster than others - but Maya coming faster than ten heartbeats is the first time we've ever seen or heard of this rule being broken. I'm afraid I just don't see how timing it in seconds has any relevance to the question of timing it in heartbeats. We even see in book people talk about how much faster it is to summon their Blades when they're already afraid/in the middle of battle/etc. so this is known information.

I think so, but I haven't seen anyone in this conversation say just saying the oaths alone would do the trick. I've seen people say forming a nahel bond, swear and live out the first few oaths as well as a full Edgedancer would have (three oaths, I think I saw someone say, because that's when you can make the spren go in and out of Blade form? iirc? I'm not sure), a combination of the oaths AND external healing, but I don't think anyone has been arguing this point.

Actually, in the WoB, Brandon doesn't say that it's investiture that's leaking. I don't think it can be investiture, actually. Spren themselves are investiture. That just doesn't work with the information that we have, especially since Brandon confirms the physical form of the Blade is still intact and the person wouldn't lose bits of the spren. It seems like a much better fit to say that the Connection has a leak, that hemalurgy does an inferior job of taking the bond itself. The gem bond is already an inferior bond to a real living nahel bond, that's why Radiants can summon their spren instantaneously and dead Blades need ten heartbeats to be summoned - it's because the connection is inferior, not the spren itself. The hemalurgy just takes the inferior gem bond and makes it worse. Saying that it's investiture is an idea, but it just doesn't work with what we know about how Shardblades work. 

So to clarify my statement on "leaking". This was in reference to using hemalurgy to steal a dead shardblade bond. Inherent to ruin, and hemalurgic spikes is a "loss" of power, a decay. I took the way Brandon responded to mean that the spike would "leak"/decay in power, or lose investiture which is the nature of hemalurgic spikes. I then extrapolated that if the leak of power would slow down the summoning of the blade, then investiture would play a role in summoning of a dead spren over all. So my comment was not to say the spren would "leak". It is the spike that is "leaking", and since a spike steals investiture in various forms (spirit web associated traits), then the leaking to me would be leaking investiture. By extension if the spike leaking investiture would result in the summoning of the dead spren taking longer, then I theorize that a greater amount of investiture could potentially make the summoning come faster, or even restore the spren to life. Hopefully that clarified matters.

edit: i would also like to add, that it is my interpretation of this WoB, that causes me to believe the dead spren are in fact damaged and missing something. But understandably there are multiple interpretations (Calderis's theory foremost among them) that disagree. I have bolded what I consider the pertinent parts below

 

Jerich
Is the Hoed from Elantris similar to the state of [dead] Shardblades? If so is it possible to awaken a Shardblade if the bearer speaks the oaths of the Knights Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson
The status is... I would say not as similar as you're probably thinking, but it does have a similarity in that two bacteria causing a disease are both caused by a bacteria, so there is a similarity there.

I can imagine a sequence where a Shardblade would be reawakened, but I think it would be very difficult.

It's not the same that they're in the middle of a transition, like in Elantris.

Jerich
Oh, okay. So you have to actually... it'd be harder.

Brandon Sanderson
It'd be harder, yeah. It's not the same, they're not in the middle of a transition. They have had something ripped from them, and it's very painful and it's left them mostly mindless.

Jerich
So they have to have that something added back?

Brandon Sanderson
Yeah. So what you've got going on: the spren gain-- the bond lets them have sentience in the physical plane, like they can think and all these things, and when that was ripped away from them-- imagine... (this is a very bad metaphor, it's the first one coming to my head though): imagine you had wetwear, you had a head-jack or something like that, and someone just ripped it out of your head. 

Jerich
*stunned/horrified*

Oh.

Brandon Sanderson
Instead of surgically operating it out. Like that's what's happened, a piece of their soul's been ripped off.

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Calderis he/him]

@Pathfinder

You are still missing my point when it comes to consistency and the distance mechanism. 

I understand perfectly that you're saying that the perpendicularity could have created the different "distance" but there is a problem with that. 

After Dalinar opened the perp, Adolin summoned Maya three times.

10 heartbeats. 

10 heartbeats. 

7.

If the perpendicularity were responsible for the difference, it should be either consistent at 7 across the board, or the first should have been the shortest and they should have gotten successively longer as the perpendicularity was fading. 

Instead, she summons at the normal speed twice and then comes faster when Adolin asks her with a plaintive please. 

Which is why I keep saying it was a choice on her part. A difference of 3 heartbeats can't be blamed on the perpendicularity when it made no difference in the first two instances.