Warden of Storms Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 So did Dalinar officially ascend? Odium states that he wasn't supposed to. I'm a little confuzzled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 +Invocation Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 He Ascended temporarily. He is not fully Honor (yet, at least). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Warden of Storms Posted January 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) He is unity not honor tho, he may have taken the essence of honor, but that doesn't mean he will become honor. As he screams that he is unity Edited January 7, 2019 by Warden of Storms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Warden of Storms Posted January 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 We see what ascension is like in mistborne though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Quantus Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 It was a partial/temporary ascension, best we can tell. It manifested as Unity rather than Honor because whileTanavast took the root Intent behind Honor (ie promotion of Spiritual Bonds) as more of a personal thing between Individuals, Danilar seems to be taking a broader, more Community view of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 +Invocation Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 38 minutes ago, Warden of Storms said: He is unity not honor tho, he may have taken the essence of honor, but that doesn't mean he will become honor. As he screams that he is unity Like Quantus said, Honor is one of the Shards that can be taken multiple ways (i.e. Ruin or Autonomy), and Dalinar's take is Unity, not Tanavast's Honor interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ripheus23 Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Unity is one of Honor's Purposes. Quote Argent [PENDING REVIEW] Back in ['14] you referred to Honor's Purposes to me at one point. Is that still a thing in the cosmere? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Honor's purpose? Argent [PENDING REVIEW] Honor's purposes. You referred to ten of them. Using the concept of Shardic numbers. But I don't have that on record, I don't know anything about it, it's been a confusing topic ever since. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] So that's still a deal. It just plays into the ten names of the Almighty and the ten attributes of the Fools and the ten attributes of the Almighty. Argent [PENDING REVIEW] Are Purposes something every shard has? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] I wouldn't say...No. It's playing more into the nature of Honor itself. source To Splinter Honor, Odium apparently had to "kill" Honor's Purposes. So far, then, at least as per the scene in question, Dalinar has "resurrected" one of the Ten Purposes. If he "resurrects" all of them, this might lead him to take up the Shard of Honor as a whole, but whether this will be so has been RAFO'ed consistently, and strenuously. For all those who see "Unity" as way off Tanavast's mindset, or just a minor subset of a possible mindset of his, or whatever: this is not so, for it was Tanavast who (indirectly) commanded Dalinar: "Unite them." When Dalinar says, "I am Unity," he is expressing his role as the fulfillment of that commandment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Scion of the Mists Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 It's supposed to be ambiguous. But I agree with the others that he "partially Ascended." Quote [suggestion] Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Dalinar Ascends, right? Like right then there. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] I have RAFO'd that. Whether he is Ascending or not is RAFO. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Okay, because I know he kind of mentions from that I don't know how to say his name but the older guy who has the Diagram Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Taravangian, yeah. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Yeah, he mentions that. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Whether that deserves to be a capital "A" or not is a matter of argument. It can be disputed. [snip] source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Calderis Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Warden of Storms said: He is unity not honor tho, he may have taken the essence of honor, but that doesn't mean he will become honor. As he screams that he is unity I personally think that Unity is just a reinterpretation of Honor, and that the Shards names are only what they are because of their particular Vessels. 4 hours ago, Warden of Storms said: We see what ascension is like in mistborne though And apparently, that is not the only way to Ascend. 4 hours ago, Ripheus23 said: Unity is one of Honor's Purposes. To Splinter Honor, Odium apparently had to "kill" Honor's Purposes. So far, then, at least as per the scene in question, Dalinar has "resurrected" one of the Ten Purposes. If he "resurrects" all of them, this might lead him to take up the Shard of Honor as a whole, but whether this will be so has been RAFO'ed consistently, and strenuously. For all those who see "Unity" as way off Tanavast's mindset, or just a minor subset of a possible mindset of his, or whatever: this is not so, for it was Tanavast who (indirectly) commanded Dalinar: "Unite them." When Dalinar says, "I am Unity," he is expressing his role as the fulfillment of that commandment. This is an interesting idea... But it's definitely guesswork. We have no idea what role the "purposes" play, or what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Yata Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 Like Calderis said. At the moment we know almost nothing of what happened there. Indeed it's also possible Dalinar didn't channeled Honor at all during his Realmsclap, the reaction Odium had from the scene is freaking out and yelling "WE KILLED YOU" notice the "We" that made a lot of people to think Dalinar was in some way channeling Adonalsium himself. Brandon has also always RAFOed if the "Unite them" come from Honor/SF. Also the killing a Shard by killing its/their intent/mandate/purpose/ecc... is for now completely baseless as the only instances we saw with some details didn't mention something like that at all. One is of course from Mistborn and as I don't know if the OP read it I will skip it. The other is from Odium itself fearing a surprise attack from Cultivation that could be able to murder him.... Def neither of those are about killing or interacting with the "purposes" of Shards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ripheus23 Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 6 hours ago, Yata said: Def neither of those are about killing or interacting with the "purposes" of Shards That's because not every Shard has capital-P Purposes. Quote Argent Back in, I think, Words of Radiance I asked you-- Somebody asked the question that had to do with the number 10 on Roshar and I didn't get the question on the recording--which was horrible--but your answer talked about Honor's purposes. Is what you said, and you mentioned 10 of them and that is why the number 10 is so sacred. Could you say something so I have something on the record? So we know what you said about that? Brandon Sanderson Honor's purposes... Argent Or Shard's purposes... Like what is that all about? Brandon Sanderson That will become-- I said it vaguely on purpose. source There's almost no way Odium was talking about Honor when Dalinar said, "I am Unity." First, Honor, as Tanavast, was not restored. Tanavast is perma-dead. So the "you!" in, "We killed you!" doesn't refer to Tanavast. Did the Shard of Honor have its own mind, aside from Tanavast's, when Odium Splintered it? That's the only way, even vaguely, that "you!" could refer to a Shard as whatever Dalinar was invoking/summoning. But now it really doesn't appear as if Dalinar picked up enough of Honor's Investiture, to become a Shard. I could see him being a Sliver, like the Lord Ruler, but not an outright Shard. However, if only part of Honor's Investiture was "picked up," then "you!" still wouldn't be able to refer to the whole Shard, so not the whole-Shard-as-Unity. And Rayse might be foolish in various ways, but I think he would be able to tell if Dalinar had actually picked up an entire Shard of Honor/Unity. For that matter, we don't even know if the Shard of Honor can be reforged. So the likelihood of "Unity" being a Shard is fairly low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Warden of Storms Posted January 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 Oh man, my friend brought up, what if unity has nothing to do with honor. What if its unity of the shards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Tglassy Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 Honestly, that's my interpretation. Unite Them. Unite the nations. Unite the pieces of Honor. Unite the Shards. I think Honor seeded a plan, the same way Preservation did. I think Honor wanted someone to bring the Shards back together. I think he suffers from Obi-Wan syndrome. He thought he could run things better than Adonalsium, and saw how hard it was when the people he Invested in destroyed their own planet, and then went to conquer Roshar and potentially do the same to them. He saw how horrible things were with Odium and Ruin, and potentially other Shareholders, and I think he realized that they should have never separated the powers. The Shards are pieces of a hole, individual intents without the balance of all the others. Rage without restraint or focus, destruction without consideration. So he put seeds. He had the Stormfather find someone. He maybe even worked with Cultivation to help. And he prepared a way for someone, Dalinar, to be able to Unite the Shards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 +Invocation Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, Tglassy said: the people he Invested in destroyed their own planet, and then went to conquer Roshar and potentially do the same to them. He was always on Roshar, though. That's where he and Cultivation settled initially, Ashyn just ended up dealing with the fallout from two nearby Shards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Quantus Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 18 hours ago, Ripheus23 said: That's because not every Shard has capital-P Purposes. There's almost no way Odium was talking about Honor when Dalinar said, "I am Unity." First, Honor, as Tanavast, was not restored. Tanavast is perma-dead. So the "you!" in, "We killed you!" doesn't refer to Tanavast. Did the Shard of Honor have its own mind, aside from Tanavast's, when Odium Splintered it? That's the only way, even vaguely, that "you!" could refer to a Shard as whatever Dalinar was invoking/summoning. But now it really doesn't appear as if Dalinar picked up enough of Honor's Investiture, to become a Shard. I could see him being a Sliver, like the Lord Ruler, but not an outright Shard. However, if only part of Honor's Investiture was "picked up," then "you!" still wouldn't be able to refer to the whole Shard, so not the whole-Shard-as-Unity. And Rayse might be foolish in various ways, but I think he would be able to tell if Dalinar had actually picked up an entire Shard of Honor/Unity. For that matter, we don't even know if the Shard of Honor can be reforged. So the likelihood of "Unity" being a Shard is fairly low. Well, he may be "perma-dead" but he also left a Cognitive Shadow behind, with orders bond to a new Bondsmith. That might have been enough for it to seem to Rayse, in a moment of surprise/panic, that Tanavast was still around somehow. Rayse is still figuring out how the whole Killing a Shard thing works, so it wouldnt be the first time he was blindsighted by unexpected results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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So did Dalinar officially ascend? Odium states that he wasn't supposed to. I'm a little confuzzled
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