Why didn't Mare get used for a spike?

[Lord Mist]

So I've only read the first three Mistborn books and i dont know if this is answered in another book or not. 

Why was Mare not used to create a spike? Why did she get sent to the pits when the lord ruler knew she was a misting. that was the whole point in hunting down the mistings was to use them to create spikes.  is this just a huge plot hole?

 

Thanks. 

[Calderis he/him]

That wasn't the only point. It was also to remove allomancy from the gene pool. Most misting were just killed. 

Making a spike at a time that it's not going to be used immediately is a huge waste of power. Just look at Marsh's creation. The pounder the spikes directly through the victim into him in order to minimize decay. 

Additionally, TLR didn't add more spikes than necessary to his inquisitors. They all had roughly the same number, and that didn't increase until Ruin was in control. And there's very good reason for that. The more spikes, the more open to external influence. And even without external influence, the more mentally unstable. 

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focoma

We've seen Kandra True Bodies made of crystal, stone, or wood. Can a kandra use a True Body made of metal? If so, what happens if each metal "bone" had a Hemalurgic charge, and each one is touching an appropriate bind point?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. And that would work, better than you think, because Kandra have fluid bind points. But too many spikes can be dangerous to the psyche, even with Ati not messing things up.

source

Mare wasn't used to make a spike, because most misting weren't. 

[Weltall]

Welcome to the Shard!

1 hour ago, Lord Mist said:

Why was Mare not used to create a spike? Why did she get sent to the pits when the lord ruler knew she was a misting. that was the whole point in hunting down the mistings was to use them to create spikes.  is this just a huge plot hole?

Nope, you're assuming that all mistings were treated as hemalurgic donors but we know for a fact that's not the case. Consider the case of Camon, who was thought to be a misting and executed in a very distinct way. We're told explicitly that this is how the Steel Ministry kills people who misuse the powers of allomancy and it's well known enough that earlier in the book Clubs alludes to it when he suggests the entire crew might end up with hooks through their throats. The Ministry kills most mistings, they only spike them when they actually need a fresh spike.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Ookla the Gralsritter

[BooksBeforeDeath]

Remember that Mare was a tineye, and Inquisitors don't really need to have their sight enhanced because of their steelvision, and they can see perfectly, so they don't really need other senses enhanced.

[Lord Mist]

i disagree. They thought that misting were being killed but, they were actually being taken and used to make the inquisitors. its seems as if they gathered the mistings they needed until they had enough to make an inquisitor. 

Seems like a waste to just drop her in the pits instead of holding her until that can use her to make an inquisitor. 

The spikes that TLR kept out were the ones from keepers. but all inquisitors were mistborn after TLR finished em. 

[+Ark1002]

Not actually, they were close though though. They didn't have, say, gold, or the metals that were unknown even to TLR.

[Lord Mist]

wasn't that one of the major revealings the fact that they were not hunt and killing mistings, they were hunting them and using them for spikes. Camon died the way he did because he did misuse allomancy but, he wasnt a misting. 

With mistings being so rare wouldnt they need everyone they could get their hands on, not just when we happen to need a spike? 

Also, TLR knew of all 14 metals. he tells them how to make em in the caverns. (16 total metals, 2 still unknown)

[Calderis he/him]

14 minutes ago, Lord Mist said:

wasn't that one of the major revealings the fact that they were not hunt and killing mistings, they were hunting them and using them for spikes. Camon died the way he did because he did misuse allomancy but, he wasnt a misting. 

I'm not aware of any such reveal, other than the origin of inquistor powers, through Marsh... Which I covered in my first response. 

Allomancers aren't all that rare anyways. Every member of the crew was a leader of a group of their own. Ham had thugs that he used for muscle and security. Breeze has siithers and rioters. Clubs had multiple smokers in shifts... Not to mention the city wide soothing stations filled with even more allomancers. 

And one of the big reveals is that, confirmed by Marsh to Vin, inquisitors could pierce copper clouds. So if they needed spikes that badly, they didn't have to hunt all that hard. 

[Lord Mist]

50 minutes ago, Ookla, the Hivemind said:

Allomancers aren't all that rare anyways. Every member of the crew was a leader of a group of their own. Ham had thugs that he used for muscle and security. Breeze has siithers and rioters. Clubs had multiple smokers in shifts... Not to mention the city wide soothing stations filled with even more allomancers. 

When Vin first meets the crew they make a point in the book to talk about how rare allomancers are (1:10,000). 

the reveal was just that they werent killing the mistings, they were turning them into spikes(i know they die).

Yeah, Vin had her own spike.

 

Thanks for the comments, you people rock! 

[Lord Mist]

Brandon Sanderson

Also note that while Mare was an Allomancer, she wasn't what one would call a "dangerous" Allomancer. She was a Tineye, which isn't one of the top tier martial powers. She couldn't have used atium, and even if she HAD somehow found [tin], she'd simply have been able to hear and see better. Which would have made her better at finding the atium.

The Allomancers to keep out of the Pits would have been Lurchers or Coinshots (who could have destroyed the crystals), and to a lesser extent Thugs (who could be difficult to control.) Mistborn, of course, needed to be kept far, far away, lest they get their hands on atium.

There's more going on here, of course. If I ever write the Kelsier short story that talks about him discovering the Eleventh Metal, I will get into why the Inquisitors weren't given Mare as they wanted. The Lord Ruler specifically chose to send her to the Pits rather than handing her over to the Inquisitors. (Note: She wouldn't have ended up on a hook. Inquisitors had other...uses for skaa Mistings they captured. See book three.)

source

[+robardin he/him]

On 12/18/2018 at 7:23 PM, Lord Mist said:

Brandon Sanderson

Also note that while Mare was an Allomancer, she wasn't what one would call a "dangerous" Allomancer. She was a Tineye, which isn't one of the top tier martial powers. She couldn't have used atium, and even if she HAD somehow found [tin], she'd simply have been able to hear and see better. Which would have made her better at finding the atium.

The Allomancers to keep out of the Pits would have been Lurchers or Coinshots (who could have destroyed the crystals), and to a lesser extent Thugs (who could be difficult to control.) Mistborn, of course, needed to be kept far, far away, lest they get their hands on atium.

There's more going on here, of course. If I ever write the Kelsier short story that talks about him discovering the Eleventh Metal, I will get into why the Inquisitors weren't given Mare as they wanted. The Lord Ruler specifically chose to send her to the Pits rather than handing her over to the Inquisitors. (Note: She wouldn't have ended up on a hook. Inquisitors had other...uses for skaa Mistings they captured. See book three.)

source

Nice find! But that WoB dates to Jan. 22, 2008.

The "Kelsier short story that talks about him discovering the Eleventh Metal" eventually appeared in the Mistborn Adventure Game, which was released in December, 2011, and is also in Arcanum Unbounded:

https://brandonsanderson.com/mistborn-the-eleventh-metal/

OK, that is just the first passage that you can read at his website. But in re-reading the full short story in AU, there isn't any scene with TLR designating Mare for the Pits versus the Inquisitors wanting her for spike fodder. In doing an e-book search, the words/substrings "Inquisitor" or "Lord Ruler" don't occur at all in The Eleventh Metal, other than as an expletive, only in Mistborn: Secret History, the latter of which of course takes place after Kelsier's mortal demise.

So this WoB is still the best we have to go on.

The points already made are all still valid, though: not all Mistings caught by the Inquisition were needed for spike fodder, and in any case, a spike for A-tin would probably be minimally useful for an Inquisitor who wasn't originally endowed with the power (Tineye or Mistborn) while having a cost to mental stability. And apparently, the Inquisitors still had a use in mind for Mare, which TLR didn't feel like obliging.

[Vikachu]

Just wanted to plug the theory that [SPOILERS for Shadows of Self] Mare is Bleeder.  It makes the betrayal much more understandable (as she literally can't disobey TLR), explains why she was the only Allomancer sent to the Pits (as punishment for developing feelings for Kelsier and starting to genuinely conspire against TLR), and explains why her actions mirror Kelsier's so well as she tries to destabilize Elendel.  The big blow against this theory is that Mare was a Tineye, but perhaps TLR was able to hack things for his personal kandra to give her that ability even before Trellium came into the picture.[/s]  Of course, this goes against the idea that he would originally tell us about this in The Eleventh Metal, but seeing as the finished story omits Mare at all, maybe this was a later addition.

[+robardin he/him]

On 12/26/2018 at 0:52 PM, Vikachu said:

Just wanted to plug the theory that [SPOILERS for Shadows of Self] Mare is Bleeder.  It makes the betrayal much more understandable (as she literally can't disobey TLR), explains why she was the only Allomancer sent to the Pits (as punishment for developing feelings for Kelsier and starting to genuinely conspire against TLR), and explains why her actions mirror Kelsier's so well as she tries to destabilize Elendel.  The big blow against this theory is that Mare was a Tineye, but perhaps TLR was able to hack things for his personal kandra to give her that ability even before Trellium came into the picture.[/s]  Of course, this goes against the idea that he would originally tell us about this in The Eleventh Metal, but seeing as the finished story omits Mare at all, maybe this was a later addition.

Ehh, I don't see TLR letting his Personal Kandra actually get sent to the Pits of Hathsin for a few months, even if she'd posed in the role of Mare to go after Luthadel's most wanted skaa thief. What would be the point? Just have her die immediately at the Pits and come back to her next assignment, she's not going to learn anything at the Pits. And there'd be even less reason for a kandra Mare to sacrifice herself (even in a fake beating) to extend the life of Kelsier with the gift of an atium geode.

Plus, Mare had associated not just with Kelsier but also Marsh, Sazed the super-sought-after-by-the-Ministry Keeper, and presumably other skaa Mistings of their mutual acquiantance (including the Smoker they'd brought with them to Kredik Shaw who was killed off straightaway by the Inquisitors). Since we know Bleeder remained loyal to TLR to his end, it seems unlikely that such information acquired in the guise of Mare would have gone unforwarded and unused by the Steel Ministry.

That's on top of Kelsier recalling in Secret History how Mare had wanted Kelsier to give up the dangerous life of a Luthadel thief, and retire on their savings to the far West where skaa could have a quiet and better life. Sure, you could say that a skilled kandra could be applying reverse psychology, but added to the other bits, I don't think it's plausible.

If you're supposing that Mare-as-Bleeder did all that because she'd "fallen for" Kelsier the way she'd later do with Wax, I think that's too much of a repeat (so her falling for Wax wasn't a completely unexpected development for her and even Harmony, but something she'd actually had a history of?)

Edited January 3, 2019 by robardin

[Ryan Diggory he/him]

Very intriguing, but I think it was more out of punishment for Kaladin.