Crimes Of Grindelwald "Plot Twist" does not make sense. (Spoilers)

[_Tempus_]

DO NOT READ IF YOU WANT TO SEE BUT NOT HAVE SEEN CRIMES OF GRINDELWALD, FOR THERE WILL BE BIG SPOILERS.

Credence being Albus Dumbledore's brother is the single most ridiculous, illogical thing I have ever heard. The movie was already mehh by itself, but that "plot twist"? It's another Cursed Child again.

According to the Harry Potter wiki, who got its source from Ezra Miller, the actor of Credence Barebone is 18 in the first Fantastic Beast Film, and so Credence is probably born in 1907-1908. Albus Dumbledore, on the other hand, was born in 1881. His mother, Kendra Dumbledore, died soon after Albus graduated from Hogwarts, so about 17-18 years old. That would place the year around 1899. 1899, 1908. It's entirely impossible for Credence to be Albus Dumbledore's younger brother. His father? Well, he was locked up in Azkaban around 1890. I doubt he would have a child in Azkaban, and if he does had one...well, even the strongest wizards die in the presence of dementors. But if thats truly is the case, I'm out. 

At best, Credence is a dumbledore relative, a cousin perhaps. Or maybe grindelwald just lied to him. Though the phoenix family legend thing just leans towards Credence being a dumbledore.

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by _Tempus_

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I think this makes sense. Ezra Millers comments are not canon. They can be taken as the things Brandon says at signings. Canon unless the story says something different later. The twist does work, I feel. A lot of things in the movie was built up rather poorly, but the twist is the least of the problems here, I think. 

Overall, I like the story decisions in the film, but the execution was not that good.

[Indigrl]

Grindelwald had to have lied about being brothers, there could be a relation but I doubt it. It seems clear to me that the reason he went after Credence in the first place is you use him as his tool to destroy Dumbledore. Credence only wanted one thing, to know who is family was. The kid is also at his most powerful when angry and scared.. Telling Credence he has a brother who could take care of him but did not would fester and build hatred, resentment..Actually all Grindelwald did is tell the story of what happened to Arianna just omitting her fate. Nor do I think that it would take much to fool Credence with magic, he does not seem to know much. Lets not forget Grindelwald is as powerful as Dumbledore, creating a Phoenix to sell his tale, would be easy, even getting it to stay as long as Grindelwald is alive not that far fetched either...

 

[Iarwainiel I she/her]

[[[again - SPOILERS if you've not seen the "Grindlewald" movie]]]

Grindlewald's whole programme reminds me of a line from The Diagram (one of the epigraphis in WoR Part 5): "Can we make a Truthless to use ...Can we craft a weapon"

So I'm thinking that Credence is to Grindlewald as Szeth was to Taravangian.

If G. knew he'd eventually want to destroy Albus D., what if he arranged for Dumbledore's father to have a "visitor" in Azkaban? He probably had sympathizers there who'd help him, "for the greater good." Who was that woman on the ship anyway? They showed her face quite clearly - like we were supposed to remember it later.

And if G. wanted to create an obscurial, what better place to leave a child than with Barebone? Why did the half-elf Irma leave the baby with her, of all people? Who steered her there? And how did Barebone know that the baby's mother was a witch? Who told her? Maybe that series of events is what caused her to found Second Salem? And as Tina points out, Barebone seemed to hate Credence the most: maybe he was the one child who she knew positively had magical blood?

It's very convenient that, at this point, everyone who knew anything about those events (Leta, Irma, & Barebone) is dead. Of course, this is the wizarding world, so there will be a way Albus D. will figure it out.

The only thing that really doesn't make sense is that LeStrange never sent anyone, ever, to check up on the son he supposedly loved. At what point were they planning on bringing "Corvus" back into the LeStrange household? Weren't they concerned about his magical education?

I found the prophecy of Tycho Dodonus online:
Son Cruelly Banished
Despair of the Daughter
Return, Great Avenger
With Wings from the Water

In "Fantastic Beasts 1," Graves didn't seem to know whether the obscurial was a boy or a girl, nor to know the child's age. He treated Credence so badly until he found out the truth - there was no hint that he recognized Credence as a Dumbledore then. It seems like Rowling ret-conned this whole part of the story after the movie proved popular enough for sequels (she's not Brandon, after all...).

Edited November 24, 2018 by Lump-wing

[Iarwainiel I she/her]

One more thing:

The way Grindlewald is able to sound so reasonable & talk people into agreeing with him reminds me a WHOLE LOT of Saruman in TLotR - specifically, the chapter named "The Voice of Saruman."

Anyone else notice that?

[Mulk he/him]

Credence may not know that Graves was Grindelwald.  Or he may have taken the apology at face value. 

I think the whole you're a Dumbledore thing is a convenient lie and nothing more.  Wouldn't surprise me if the phoenix in question turns out to be Fawkes.  Grindelwald is trying to get someone strong enough to fight Dumbledore while hitting Dumbledore at his most vulnerable - the family he loves and feels so guilty for not treating better.  I've seen and read nothing of Grindelwald that suggests he wouldn't try something like that if he thought it would help him win against just about the only wizard he harbors doubts about defeating.

He also has to be a gifted Occlumens - I wonder if a future plot point isn't going to revolve around his control momentarily slipping in Queenie's presence, thus causing her to learn something that makes her question what she's doing.  Maybe around this very thing, when he discovers that the charm(or whatever you want to call the thing the Niffler stole) is missing.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

3 hours ago, Mulk said:

Graves

I want to see the real Graves. Colin Farrell was the best part in the first movie.

[Use the Falchion]

My pet theory is that Credence is actually Grindlewald and Dumbledore's son somehow. That way Credence can be a Dumbledore without retconning Albus' family tree. My friend thinks it's actually Albus' sister's son. Her point is that the muggles who bullied and traumatized her did something that resulted in Dumbledore going after then (and killing them? I honestly don't remember). Either way, it allows Albus to have another family member that isn't from his line, but still needs Fawkes more than he does at the moment.