Theory: Adolin is Dalinar's Squire

[Firiel she/her]

Okay, this will be a bare-bones theory.  I've only read WoK twice and WoR once, I don't have either book with me, and I'm at work.  Oh, and I'm also not crazy-genius-into-this like you all are (compliment!).  I did a quick search but didn't see this covered.

 

So feel free to flesh out or dismiss.

 

I theorize that Adolin will be Dalinar's squire for several reasons:

 

1. I can't stomach him being a Radiant at this point.  There are already too many Kholin Radiants.  I also think that his story arc needs him to deal with suddenly NOT being the best, most powerful, and most desireable for the first time in his life, and it needs to deal with that fully.

 

2. He may have already used Stormlight.  In the duel, he admits that taking on two Shardbearers is possible but difficult, and yet he ALMOST defeats four on his own before he starts losing and Renarin and Kaladin jump in.

 

3. If anyone were a squire to Dalinar, it would be Adolin.  I think it would flow nicely from their relationship in WoK as Adolin learns to understand and respect Dalinar's views more and begins to see the strength his father has.

 

4. The only REAL evidence: he doesn't feel the Thrill when fighting Eshonai.  The lack of the Thrill was a big part of Dalinar's arc in WoK, and I don't think it's just happenstance that Sanderson specifically mentions Adolin not feeling the Thrill.  Being a squire to Dalinar would explain it.

 

So yeah, thoughts?

Edited May 16, 2014 by Firiel

[Aleksiel]

The Thrill is caused by one of the Unmade, thus not feeling it doesn't make one Radiant/surgebinder/squire and only shows Nergaoul wasn't present.

 

I personally think Bondsmiths don't have squires, because they are supposed to unite everyone, not show any favoritism. Regardless, that wouldn't prevent Adolin from being Renarin's squire. However, I think Adolin is a very skilled warrior without stormlight on his side, at least I see no textual evidence for the opposite.

 

edit: adding the Unmade's name

Edited May 16, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Firiel she/her]

But wasn't Eshonai feeling the Thrill in that scene?

[Aleksiel]

Adolin claimed to feel the Thrill in her (or something), however that might have been related to her stormform or something else he mistook for the Thrill. Regardless, what makes you think Radiants and their squires don't feel the Thrill? I don't think it's canon, just speculation.

 

edit: Also, he feels the Thrill only in Eshonai, nobody else, so I'd argue it's Eshonai who was different then, not Adolin.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Firiel she/her]

Well, Brandon put in that part about Adolin sensing the Thrill in Eshonai on purpose.  You are right-- it could very well be to reveal something about Stormform to us.  But it is just as likely that Adolin wasn't feeling the Thrill when Eshonai was.

 

I don't think that Radiants and their squires don't feel the Thrill.  I think that it was a very important part of Dalinar's story arc in WoK that he stopped feeling/was disgusted by the Thrill, and I find it interesting that in the same general time period that Dalinar officially bonds with the Stormfather and we start seeing real evidence of Windrunner squires we also see Adolin experiencing something so reminiscent of Dalinar's previous experience.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Firiel

[Two McMillion he/him]

Personally, I kind of hope Adolin stays a normal human. Every group of people saving the world needs at least one of those. But this seems possible and is likely the next best thing. I especially like the possibilities you pointed out it opens up for his character arc.

[hoser he/him]

There is WoB that Kaladin is immune to the thrill as of tWoK.  IIRC, it is implied that he wasn't always.  That suggests to me that Radiance or surgebinding or spren bonding w/an Honorspren interferes w/the Thrill.

 

As for Eshonai, I imagine that the voices that are controlling her are of Odium, possibly Unmade.  I can imagine that that gave her greater access to the Thrill over greater distance (or something like that).

 

Edit: gramur

Edited May 16, 2014 by hoser

[Guest]

Adolin not feeling the Thrill is important. Not only is he not feeling it, he is feeling nauseated, he drops his sword (Adolin dropping his sword because he couldn't stand the fighting any longer is something BIG) and he wonders how he will even manage to keep on going before Eshonai crashes into him. Afterwards, he secretly thanks Eshonai for offering him something he can do: a fair duel.

 

Even before this scene, when he tries to win his Plateau, he got to a point where the only solution was to get behind the Parshendi. The first suggestion he receives was to try to climb a cliff or something crazy and reckless along the sort. He rejects it because he is NOT feeling the Thrill. He is not feeling as reckless as usual and he comments on it, He then starts to think on how he could win his Plateau and this is when he gets the hollow rock idea which was quite clever.

 

There are many puns in WoR about Adolin and the Thrill, about how he actually start to feel disgusted by many things he previously rejoiced in. In his first duel, he lets the Thrill take him in order to teach the crowd a lesson, because they are at war and he felt they needed to understand that. This was his way of telling.

 

I do not think Brandon would mentions all of this about Adolin and the Thrill if it was unimportant. The scene where Kaladin tries to spear fight after having lost Syl was telling: he sucked. He then realize how his bond, even before it was even there, made him such a great fighter. Adolin being such a great swordsman could be an indicator that something is not right there. Everyone comments on how talented he really is, better than Galivar, better then Dalinar and he is only 22.

 

Personally, I cannot see how Adolin would not become a KR. He has shown many times over that he is a good person, always willing to do what must be done. He goes at lengths to help those he cares for. He is not afraid of danger or ridicule and he is just such a good warrior. Why wouldn't the KR want him of all people? It would be a tragedy to reject him just because his father, his brother and his cousin were already chosen.

 

As for the original question, I guess it would be sweet if Adolin turned out being Dalinar's squire, but I guess see him more as a KR than a squire.

 

Edit: If I knew I was to fight in a Desolation, Adolin would probably be one of the first person I'd want on my KR team. I would chose him way before some others who have been revealed so far.

Edited May 16, 2014 by maxal

[Firiel she/her]

Yeah, but I don't want him to be a KR! *pouts and stomps*

 

I would be okay with him becoming a KR eventually, but it would have to be far later into the series.  Thus far, Adolin has been a somewhat static character-- his maturation is all in relation to others.  He learns to understand his father.  He reaches an understand/bromance with Kaladin.  Adolin's realization that he is now the weaker member of his relationship with Shallan is telling and sets up a great way for him to grow in relation to himself-- having to deal with no longer being top dog.  Sanderson sets it up well, and I would be disappointed if he didn't explore that arc throughout the next 2-3 books at least.  And he can't become a KR until/unless he works through that.

 

Perhaps he's Dalinar's squire and when Dalinar dies at the end of book four or five, he will break enough to become a KR.

 

(Note that the above argument is all narrative based and not Roshar science based.)

 

I also agree that his not feeling the Thrill is a big deal or else it wouldn't be mentioned in the detail that it is.  I highly suspect it relates to some sort of Surgebinding effect, whether it means squirehood or knighthood because of Dalinar and the confirmation that Kaladin is no longer affected by the Thrill.

[Guest]

Yeah, but I don't want him to be a KR! *pouts and stomps*

 

I would be okay with him becoming a KR eventually, but it would have to be far later into the series.  Thus far, Adolin has been a somewhat static character-- his maturation is all in relation to others.  He learns to understand his father.  He reaches an understand/bromance with Kaladin.  Adolin's realization that he is now the weaker member of his relationship with Shallan is telling and sets up a great way for him to grow in relation to himself-- having to deal with no longer being top dog.  Sanderson sets it up well, and I would be disappointed if he didn't explore that arc throughout the next 2-3 books at least.  And he can't become a KR until/unless he works through that.

 

I completely agree with you. If Adolin becomes KR, it shouldn't happen in book 3 or even in book 4. Brandon needs to explore the murder of Sadeas, the "my entire family is KR but not me" story arc: he needs to bring down the Golden Boy. Besides, I do not think Adolin is ready just yet, but it would be a total waste to leave him on the side. Most of the arguments I read about why Adolin should not be a KR are because of his family....

 

However, I do not agree he is a static character. He's grown up a lot since WoK! At first, he was an arrogant spoiled kid who was more interested in dating girls, getting drunk with his friends and looking good than the actual war. Despite all this, I thought he came out likeable enough as he clearly cared for his family well being. I could see how he didn't understand his father and how he angst on how to deal with his father's growing potential madness. Then, out of nowhere, Adolin started showing his true colors by rescuing this prostitute. At that point in the story, it probably was the last thing we expected shallow Adolin to do and yet he did. Afterwards, he started maturing a little, he started trying to understand and he came to believe in his father.

 

In WoR, we saw the real Adolin, the one that hides behind all the bravado, the arrogance and the cockiness. We was the one who is not so sure of himself and yet goes into impossible fights because it needs to be done. We saw the respect he has for his shardblade, treating it like a living thing instead of a tool, understanding it did not belong to him and being grateful it deemed to help him fight. We also saw how pathetic he really was with women, how deep down he just wanted to be with someone. We also saw how he was able to overcame his original dislike and stereotype about darkeyes to actually befriend Kaladin, how he was able to see and appreciate one lesser than him besting him in a fight. He was not jealous then: he was impressed. Bottom line is Adolin is a nice person, he's a sweet kid, really. The fact that he snap and killed the scum bag that was Sadeas doesn't change a thing. We just saw he had a threshold: shove him enough on one side and he bursts. Needs to learn how to control himself better, but I certainly do not see that as "none KR material". Kaladin spent weeks planning to kill Elhokar for seer incompetence, he lost his bond and yet was able to reclaim it.

 

In WoR, we saw how deeply he cared for his family, for his father's cause,, we saw how far he was willing to go to do his part. He is still immature, but we've got to see the real Adolin, the one that cares, the one that is just deep down a sweet and nice kid.

 

 

 

I also agree that his not feeling the Thrill is a big deal or else it wouldn't be mentioned in the detail that it is.  I highly suspect it relates to some sort of Surgebinding effect, whether it means squirehood or knighthood because of Dalinar and the confirmation that Kaladin is no longer affected by the Thrill.

 

 

I agree more or lest as I do not think Dalinar was involved in it,

[Aleksiel]

Yeah, but I don't want him to be a KR! *pouts and stomps*

 

Yeah, but I want Adolin to awaken his Shardblade! 

 

 

I completely agree with you. If Adolin becomes KR, it shouldn't happen in book 3 or even in book 4. Brandon needs to explore the murder of Sadeas, the "my entire family is KR but not me" story arc: he needs to bring down the Golden Boy. Besides, I do not think Adolin is ready just yet, but it would be a total waste to leave him on the side. Most of the arguments I read about why Adolin should not be a KR are because of his family....

 

 

Uh, I don't want two books of whining, thank you.

 

 

It'll be flat to explain Adoloin's skills with squire/nahel bond. Can't somebody just be a skilled swordsman? Else it'd look like nobody can't have any abilities on their own. It'll be like 'You're good at (something)? Oh, you Radiant!'. 

[kari-no-sugata]

btw, has anyone noticed that Adolin is practically a definition of "prince charming"?

 

is a prince - check

is charming - check

has majestic white horse - check (at least up until part 5 of WoR)

has big shiny sword - check

has shiny suit of armour - check

is nice but bit shallow - check

 

[Guest]

Yeah, but I want Adolin to awaken his Shardblade! 

 

Me too Someone needs to do this. There is too much foreshadowing for it not to happen. He would then get a very experienced spren instead of one that doesn't understand the world.

 

 

 

Uh, I don't want two books of whining, thank you.

 

Well I didn't see it as two books of whining, but more as two books of personal growth    We did get two books of Kaladin whining and we may still get a third. We also got one full book of Shallan being smarter and wittier than anyone else living while still being 17 and we will probably get another 8 books of such.... I wouldn't mind a bit of Adolin angst for a book or 2

 

 

It'll be flat to explain Adoloin's skills with squire/nahel bond. Can't somebody just be a skilled swordsman? Else it'd look like nobody can't have any abilities on their own. It'll be like 'You're good at (something)? Oh, you Radiant!'. 

 

Yeah I know... I sort of agree. I thought of it because of how Brandon linked Kal abnormal talent with the spear to his nahel bond. Adolin just happen to be a very skilled swordsman too. The parallel between him and Kaladin is there: they both picked up quickly with their given weapons and they both got ridiculously good at a rather young age.

[Aleksiel]

Well I didn't see it as two books of whining, but more as two books of personal growth    We did get two books of Kaladin whining and we may still get a third. We also got one full book of Shallan being smarter and wittier than anyone else living while still being 17 and we will probably get another 8 books of such.... I wouldn't mind a bit of Adolin angst for a book or 2

 

One depressed character is enough for me   But yeah, he'll have some 'I'm the only non-Radiant in my family. Except Elhokar, but at least he's the king'. It's normal. I wonder if that'll harm his relationship with Renarin. I mean, his own brother has been hiding something so big from him. I'd be very hurt to learn my sister didn't want to confide in me on something that important and wonder what else she's not telling me...

 

Anyway, back on topic: if not feeling the Thrill and following Dalinar's leadership is all the proof for Adolin's squireship, I am not convinced. Besides, it would be a step back for Adolin's development to be anyone's squire.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Guest]

One depressed character is enough for me   But yeah, he'll have some 'I'm the only non-Radiant in my family. Except Elhokar, but at least he's the king'. It's normal. I wonder if that'll harm his relationship with Renarin. I mean, his own brother has been hiding something so big from him. I'd be very hurt to learn my sister didn't want to confide in me on something that important and wonder what else she's not telling me...

 

 

 

Well angst and depressed are not the same thing I suspect Elhokar will not become a KR, but something is going on with those sprens he sees. I believe they very well might be voidsprens or something evil and I also believe Elhokar may try to convince everyone he is a Radiant too......... Bottom line, I see Elhokar taking the dark role in the Kohlin's family. It would suit him well

 

I also think there will be a wedge drawn between Adolin/Renarin, Adolin/Dalinar and Adolin/Shallan in the next book. Misunderstanding, confusion and severity in the applications of rules in a book will isolate/separate Adolin from his family and the ones he loves. As a result, I think he'll get into some trouble as he angered many people and has set quite a large target on his head. We'll get a lot of angst there, but not depressed sort of angst like Kaladin.

 

And Navani will through Dalinar out of her chamber for being this stubborn with his son

[LuzdeTormenta she/her]

I'm so glad someone else brought this possibility up! In another thread I joked about Adolin becoming Renarin's squire, but as I read the carefully thought out replies (heehee) explaining why that probably wouldn't happen, I actually thought, well why couldn't Adolin become someone else's squire?

At first I thought maybe Kaladin, but the obvious choice *would* be Dalinar. After all, Adolin is ALREADY emulating his father and being mentored by Dalinar. Why not?

I don't buy the theory that Adolin is on his way to KR-hood just yet either. I would actually be a little disappointed if he became a KR in the next book. That seems to easy and it seems like Adolin has a lot he needs to grow through first. Do to get me wrong, I think Adolin is really cool, but he has some major challenges ahead and the way he navigates them will be very important in the next book/s.

And I still think Adolin may turn to the dark side.

[Guest]

I don't buy the theory that Adolin is on his way to KR-hood just yet either. I would actually be a little disappointed if he became a KR in the next book. That seems to easy and it seems like Adolin has a lot he needs to grow through first. Do to get me wrong, I think Adolin is really cool, but he has some major challenges ahead and the way he navigates them will be very important in the next book/s.

 

 

I think you can rest assure, it is extremely unlikely he would become a KR in the next book. If it happens, it probably won't be until book 4 or 5 or even much later.

 

 

And I still think Adolin may turn to the dark side.

 

I do not believe he would go against his family. I believe he would rather die than to take on that role unless he gets brainwashed first, but I do not see that happening either.

[kaellok he/him]

I think you can rest assure, it is extremely unlikely he would become a KR in the next book. If it happens, it probably won't be until book 4 or 5 or even much later.

 

 

 

I do not believe he would go against his family. I believe he would rather die than to take on that role unless he gets brainwashed first, but I do not see that happening either.

Who said his family would be alive when he turns ?  Imagine what Adolin's response would be if Mr T manages to kill Dalinar and Renarin (or, god forbid, Shallan), and Adolin knew it was him but couldn't prove it.  Temptation wouldn't lure him from the side of good, but bloody vengeance?  He would cut a swathe so deep and wide that Szeth's would be the work of an amateur in comparison.

 

[Aleksiel]

I don't think Bondsmiths have squires, because their Order focuses on uniting without discriminating and having a squire bond seems like an out of place favoritism. Also, making Adolin a squire would feel like a step back for his character development. 

 

It would make sense for Adolin to become an anti-hero for the sake of further exploring the theme of journey before destination. That being sad, I want to emphasize on anti-hero, not villain. It would be interesting to read, certainly not what I've expected of him after WoK. However, WoR gave Adolin a new edge I hope he'll explore.

[Aether he/him]

That being sad

Pun noted.

 

And I agree with you that Bondsmiths, along with Truthwatchers, would be the prime candidates for the Orders without squires at all. Or alternatively, very few.

[Firiel she/her]

I don't think Bondsmiths have squires, because their Order focuses on uniting without discriminating and having a squire bond seems like an out of place favoritism. Also, making Adolin a squire would feel like a step back for his character development. 

 

What makes you feel like it would be a step back for his character development?

 

I do think that Bondsmiths are more likely to not have squires than a lot of other orders.  I suspect that if they do have squires, it's perhaps just one-- kind of a mentor/mentee relationship.  That doesn't seem to overlap with any sort of discrimination/division, IMO.

 

Skybreakers seem like the kind that wouldn't have any sort of squires at all to me.  From what we've seen of Nale and Szeth, that order seems to be kind of a lone ranger harbinger of justice type deal.*

 

*Pure speculation

[Aleksiel]

What makes you feel like it would be a step back for his character development?

 

I'll be all lazy and quote myself 

Adolin is too proud to be anyone's squire. Don't get me wrong, eh how can I explain it... I don't see it in his personality to be someone who can live in anyone's shadow, he must shine on his own. My best hopes are for Adolin to awaken his Blade and thus make himself a Radiant. Not because a spren chosen him, but because he chose it himself. Get the difference? 

 

 

Also, being a squire for Adolin will be like he went from the Golden boy to being the family's disappointment. Just take a look at the Kholins:

 

Elhokar - the king

Dalinar - renowned warlord and KR

Jasnah - renowned scholar and KR

Renarin - KR

Navani - renowned  engineer and former queen

Adolin - Shardbearer

 

Adolin turning into a squire won't be an improvement when compared to the rest of his family. Adolin being only a Shardbearer or a squire would feel out of place to me, like Adolin would suddenly become just a supporting character, not a leading one.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Firiel she/her]

I'll be all lazy and quote myself 

 

Also, being a squire for Adolin will be like he went from the Golden boy to being the family's disappointment. Just take a look at the Kholins:

 

Elhokar - the king

Dalinar - renowned warlord and KR

Jasnah - renowned scholar and KR

Renarin - KR

Navani - renowned  engineer and former queen

Adolin - Shardbearer

 

Adolin turning into a squire won't be an improvement when compared to the rest of his family. Adolin being only a Shardbearer or a squire would feel out of place to me, like Adolin would suddenly become just a supporting character, not a leading one.

Okay.

 

To me, learning humility and learning to play second-fiddle gracefully when he's always been top dog and lovably haughty would actually be a step forward in character development and not a step back, so we just differ in that.

 

I loved Shallan talking to Kaladin about how Adolin gets along with people/is friendly when Kaladin was ragging on Adolin (true!), but I also felt like one of the reasons Adolion is so personable is because he has it so easy socially (upper class, talented, naturally friendly, etc.).  It's easy to be friendly when you are on top.  I'd love to see Adolin learn to be just as friendly and gracious when things aren't going his way and he is no longer leading the pack.  That'd be great character development, I think.

[Confused]

What makes you feel like it would be a step back for his character development?

 

I do think that Bondsmiths are more likely to not have squires than a lot of other orders.  I suspect that if they do have squires, it's perhaps just one-- kind of a mentor/mentee relationship.  That doesn't seem to overlap with any sort of discrimination/division, IMO.

 

Skybreakers seem like the kind that wouldn't have any sort of squires at all to me.  From what we've seen of Nale and Szeth, that order seems to be kind of a lone ranger harbinger of justice type deal.*

 

*Pure speculation

What!! No law clerks!!

 

[My 100th post!! Whoopee!]

[Moogle]

Skybreakers seem like the kind that wouldn't have any sort of squires at all to me.  From what we've seen of Nale and Szeth, that order seems to be kind of a lone ranger harbinger of justice type deal.*

 

*Pure speculation

 

I disagree here. They seem like the perfect type to have them. Even Nalan gets a ton of use out of his mooks. I'd be surprised if Skybreakers couldn't get squires. If you're crashing a drug den, you'll want backup covering the exits even if you do go in alone.

 

Particularly considering if you go by that "Abstract Surge" theory, Skybreakers have abstract Gravity, which means they should either draw people to them or be supernaturally convincing, something along those lines. I was initially opposed to that theory, but it's growing on me. Shallan certainly has a sort of ability to use Transformation in more abstract, given how she transformed Gaz and co.

 

As further speculation on squires, if we see having squires as cultivating bonds between people (H+C), I'd expect the pure Honor (Bondsmiths) and pure Cultivation (Truthwatchers) Orders to have no ability to make squires. Highly speculative, and we don't even know if honorspren are "pure" Honor or what.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Moogle