Limits on becoming a Radiant?

[Adzos he/him]

I’ve tried multiple times to figure out the right way to put this so here we go.

Im assuming we all know different spren are attracted to people based on their main attribute/s, therefore determining what order of Radiant they become. 

So, if ones main attribute that they currently posses conflicts with that they value most / aspire to become, how does that affect what spren is attracted? My first guess is to say that they would still bond a spren that is attracted to the former of the two options, opinions?

 

sorry if this makes no sense whatsoever, but oh well, what’re you gonna do?

[Quantus he/him]

Id say the spren would be attracted to them regardless of their aspirations, we have multiple examples of nascent radiants that did not want their spren at all.  As long as they speak the Ideals, actually mean them, and dont violate them, the bond would form and continue to grow.  They can Change as a person in all kinds of ways after that so long as it doesnt violate their Ideals.

[Calderis he/him]

Being a Radiant doesn't actually demand that you are a combatant. 

Quote

Argent (paraphrased)

Did all orders of Knights Radiants use Shardplate?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It was available to all of them, and they could (all) use it. Many Knights (not Orders) chose not to. There were Knights who were not soldiers and had not interest in wearing Shardplate.

source

As long as they are living according to the Ideals they swear, they can still go on to do anything that they wished. 

Radianthood is not in itself an end to whatever they wished prior. 

[Zelly]

I think there's a lot of wiggle room based on Intent and reasoning.  People are complex.  We do terrible things with good intentions and (far less often) do incredible things with terrible intentions.

I also think your question is the one that the knights often ask themselves and is perhaps suppose to be part of the process.  We know Kaladin struggles walking a line between killing and protecting.

 

[Furamirionind They/Any/All]

I think as well, each order of radient represents something worth striving for.  So while an individual may not in that moment want to go in that direction, they may change eventually.

For instance, Kaladin at one point wanted to pursue justice over protection.  He eventually understood why he should protect and went towards that path.

I think the spren can change humans just like the humans change the spren.  So perhaps even just bonding an Honor spren is going to make you much more likely to go down the path of protection, where if the same person bonded a high spren they may pursue justice.

...if my view makes any sense... : )

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

Things change when unlike beings merge and achieve symbiosis. The Kaladin who swore the 1st Oath isn't the same person as the on on the verge of the 4th. The Syl who accepted that 1st Oath is certainly not the same spren that comforts Kaladin in Shadesmar.

We know that not everyone who swore Oaths makes the full progression. We also know some people can go their whole life as squires without ever attracting a spren of their own. It's possible that one if the reasons for non progression is unresolved conflict between what a person is inside and what they want to be.

[Rakei]

So I'm reading Oathbringer again and I was just reading the bit where Dalinar is observing the soldiers carrying around spheres "for luck" to try to become radiant and the storm father says.

Quote

They go about this backward. Foolish men. They can’t draw in Light and become Radiant; they first must be approaching Radiance, and look for Light to fulfill the promise.

So what I took that to mean is to swear the first oath and become radiant you must strive for a specific divine attribute, and then start drawing in light to fulfill the promise.

So every order and their oaths are connected to a divine attribute and once they swear that second oath they bind the spren truly I believe that one of the third one I'm not quite certain. But we've seen what happens with Kaladin and Syl when he veers off his divine purpose their bond breaks. Perhaps it's stronger now with greater oaths and that leads to greater flexibility.

[Adzos he/him]

On 10/28/2018 at 5:07 AM, Rakei said:

So I'm reading Oathbringer again and I was just reading the bit where Dalinar is observing the soldiers carrying around spheres "for luck" to try to become radiant and the storm father says.

So what I took that to mean is to swear the first oath and become radiant you must strive for a specific divine attribute, and then start drawing in light to fulfill the promise.

So every order and their oaths are connected to a divine attribute and once they swear that second oath they bind the spren truly I believe that one of the third one I'm not quite certain. But we've seen what happens with Kaladin and Syl when he veers off his divine purpose their bond breaks. Perhaps it's stronger now with greater oaths and that leads to greater flexibility.

This is pretty interesting actually. Kind of combining what some people have said so far (Especially @Furamirionind), wouldn't it be possible for someone to embody one attribute, but who want to follow another, devote themselves to their chosen attribute, thus attracting the correct spren, and eventually changing the individual significantly so that they actually do in fact embody the chosen attribute?

Edited October 30, 2018 by Adzos

[+Oltux72 he/him]

Well the first oath is broad, but it has some meaning it should be incompatible with:

• suicidal tendencies - it does not rule out sacrificing yourself for something, but an outright wish to die clashes with "life before death"
• nihilism - the journey has to matter
• being a serial killer - life before death
• pacifism - strength before weakness, self defense is implied in the oath
• working as a contract killer - life before death

 

[Calderis he/him]

If you can do the mental gymnastics enough to justify it, then I don't honestly see how the first oath can prevent anything.

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

suicidal tendencies - it does not rule out sacrificing yourself for something, but an outright wish to die clashes with "life before death"

Syl prevented it from happening, but Kal had decided to kill himself, and unlike when something he decided on cause her to go stupid, she was still actively getting stronger. 

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

nihilism - the journey has to matter

Why? A journey is a journey. If you're more focused on where you are then where your going, how does that clash with the oath considering how lax it is? 

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

being a serial killer - life before death

That would be different than Malata opening an oathgate for the enemy how? 

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

pacifism - strength before weakness, self defense is implied in the oath

Lift is literally a pacifist. Wyndel is as well. She has hurt absolutely no one. It's why Wyndel manifests as a Rod in the first place. 

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

working as a contract killer - life before death

Life before death does not mean what Teft says it means. It means whatever the person believes it means. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Calderis

[Rakei]

I don't believe anything is incompatible with the first oath tbh.

It's extremely accessible, many of our mains actively battle self-destructive tendencies, in fact it's basically a requirement. It's when a certain spren gets involved that things gets more tricky. Like Kaladin mentions about Syl taking away his abilities when he's going against his word. It seems like it's a function of the both of them together knowing what he's doing is wrong.