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Have we seen Kelser or after effects from him in any other cosmere world?

Ember Hawk

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Ember Hawk

Ember Hawk

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So this has been on my mind for a bit.  I know we see Hoid/Wit popup in the books he is all over the place.  My question is have we see Kelser yet?  I am pretty sure he is a world hopper now and my even be doing as Hoid gaining the powers from different worlds. Any ideas on this would be great.

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RShara

RShara she/her

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Posted (edited)

Brandon said recently that Kelsier has not yet figured out a way to get off of Scadrial.

 

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Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Has Kelsier done any worldhopping?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Kelsier is bound to Scadrial the same way that a spren is bound to Roshar, because of the level of Investiture and the type and the way it happened. It is possible to get offworld but he does not know what it is.

source

 

Edited by RShara
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Glamdring804

Glamdring804

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I noticed on my last reread of WoK that the Devotary of Scincerity has the motto "there is always something more to discover." To me, that struck me as awfully similar to "there is always another secret," with some wording shifts due to translation. Similar enough that I don't think it's a coincidence. I got the chance to ask Brandon about it, and I predictably got a RAFO. 

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Scimmy

Scimmy

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On 10/9/2018 at 7:12 PM, Glamdring804 said:

I noticed on my last reread of WoK that the Devotary of Scincerity has the motto "there is always something more to discover."

We do know that one of his believers got off the world and could very well have passed those words along.  

 

Although extremely interesting that the amount of investiture can actually tie you more strongly to a world.  Kandra probably won’t be going off world easily, but what if they did?  What could they learn from such travel?  And sort of unreleased could hemalurgy be used to take other types of investiture?  What about kandra made from such spikes if they are possible?

damnation now I have a lot more questions!

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Calderis

Calderis he/him

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4 minutes ago, Scimmy said:

Although extremely interesting that the amount of investiture can actually tie you more strongly to a world.  Kandra probably won’t be going off world easily, but what if they did?  What could they learn from such travel?  And sort of unreleased could hemalurgy be used to take other types of investiture?  What about kandra made from such spikes if they are possible?

Kandra have a physical aspect, and can leave the world no problem. We know that there are Kandra worldhoppers. 

Kelsier is bound because he is a Cognitive Shadow. A person who has died and whose soul has been so invested that they don't pass into the Beyond. 

A Kandra is basically just a different species. Without being similarly suffused with Investiture they'd pass on like a human. 

Hemalurgy can be used to take anything, you just need to learn the proper bindpoints. 

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Scimmy

Scimmy

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7 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Kandra have a physical aspect, and can leave the world no problem. We know that there are Kandra worldhoppers. 

Kelsier is bound because he is a Cognitive Shadow. A person who has died and whose soul has been so invested that they don't pass into the Beyond.

Now we don’t know that Kelsier doesn’t have a physical aspect.  He was a cognitive shadow but it’s highly likely he has found a way to come fully into the physical realm.  Because he tied himself to the well and even took up the power briefly, not to mention whatever spikes he has acquired, he is tied very strongly to Scadrial, but reading the WoS, there is a strong implication that Kelsier is powerful enough to jump to other worlds, he just hasn’t figured out the trick yet.  I would bet he can probably coach others to it but because of his unique nature he himself can’t.

Also it will suuuuuuper obvious when he does cause he will be making lots and lots of noise.

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Calderis

Calderis he/him

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Posted (edited)

@Scimmy uh... Have you finished all of the Mistborn books?

Bands of Mourning spoilers. 

Spoiler

The Memory that Wax views at the end reveals that The Sovereign is Kelsier. 

He has a body. 

That still doesn't let him leave. He has been to invested. That's not something you're going to see happen on the scale of a species.

@Scimmy (tag in case you missed the edit) 

 

Edited by Calderis
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Scimmy

Scimmy

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Yes I know the ending shows that.  Which was my point, he wasn’t just a cognitive shadow anymore, which means it is possible to become so connected to a world that leaving becomes physically difficult, which makes sense on a meta level but also in the cosmere itself.  Just read through a huge chunk of the word of Sanderson (word of Brandon just doesn’t work for me and I will not go alone with it.  We get a yearly “state of the Sanderson,” I think I'm following established convention) and Lordy Lordy so many nibblets.  And I realized just how little I know compared to so many others!  It almost breaks my heart that I’ve missed so much!

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RShara

RShara she/her

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6 hours ago, Scimmy said:

Yes I know the ending shows that.  Which was my point, he wasn’t just a cognitive shadow anymore, which means it is possible to become so connected to a world that leaving becomes physically difficult, which makes sense on a meta level but also in the cosmere itself.  Just read through a huge chunk of the word of Sanderson (word of Brandon just doesn’t work for me and I will not go alone with it.  We get a yearly “state of the Sanderson,” I think I'm following established convention) and Lordy Lordy so many nibblets.  And I realized just how little I know compared to so many others!  It almost breaks my heart that I’ve missed so much!

He's still a Cognitive Shadow, just one that's stapled to a body.

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Scimmy

Scimmy

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Posted
8 hours ago, RShara said:

He's still a Cognitive Shadow, just one that's stapled to a body.

 

7 hours ago, Nathrangking said:

@Scimmy as @RShara said Kelsier is like the returned or the heralds who have physical bodies, but are most definitely Cognitive Shadows.

do you happen to have a link or links to where you got this idea?  Cause that is fascinating and I wanna read more!

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RShara

RShara she/her

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Scimmy said:

 

do you happen to have a link or links to where you got this idea?  Cause that is fascinating and I wanna read more!

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Iceblade44

So White Sand [than Elantris] is earlier... Then how the heck old is Kriss then? Will we ever get an answer as to why every worldhopper is flipin immortal?

Brandon Sanderson

There is some time-dialation going on. I'll explain it eventually; we're almost to the point where I can start talking about that. Suffice it to say that there's a mix of both actual slowing of the aging process and relative time going on, depending on the individual. Very few are actually immortal.

Faera

Implying that some are actually immortal? :D

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on which definition of immortal you mean.

Doesn't age, but can be killed by conventional means. (You've seen some of these in the cosmere, but I'll leave you to discuss who.)

Heals from wounds, but still ages. (Knights Radiant with Stormlight are like this.)

Reborn when killed. (The Heralds.)

Doesn't age and can heal, but dependent upon magic to stay this way, and so have distinct weakness to be exploited. (The Lord Ruler, among others.)

Hive beings who are constantly losing individual members, but maintaining a persistent personality spread across all of them, immortal in that as long as too much of the hive isn't wiped out, the personality can persist. (The sleepless.)

Bits of sapient magic, eternal and endless, though the personality can be "destroyed" in specific ways. (Seons. Spren. Nightblood. Cognitive Shadows, like a certain character from Scadrial.)

Shards (Really just a supercharged version of the previous category.)

And then, of course, there's Hoid. I'm not going to say which category, if any, he's in.

Some of these blend together--the Heralds, for example, are technically a variety of cognitive shadow. I'm not saying each of these categories above are distinct, intended to be the end-all definitions. They're off the cuff groupings I made to explain a point: immortality is a theme of the cosmere works--which, at their core, are experiments on what happens when men are given the power of deity.

Shagomir

Heals from wounds, but still ages.

Would Bloodmaker Ferrings exist in this category as well? If not, what about someone compounding Gold?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you are correct.

Shagomir

As a Bloodmaker ages what keeps them from healing the damage and carrying on as a very old, but very healthy person? Do they come to a point where they can't store enough health to stave off the aches, pains, diseases, and other things that come with old age?

This makes sense for traditional Feruchemy as it is end-neutral, so storing health becomes a zero sum game - eventually, you're going to get sick and you're not going to be able to overcome it with your natural healing ability no matter how much you manipulate it with a goldmind.

...Unless you've got a supply of Identity-less goldminds lying around. Would a Bloodmaker with a sufficient source of identity-less goldminds (or the ability to compound, thus bypassing the end-neutral part of Feruchemy) eventually just die from being too old?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, yes. They can heal their body to match their spiritual ideal, but some things (like some genetic diseases, and age-related illnesses) are seen as part of the ideal. Depends on several factors.

source

 

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