The Knights might have to learn to Voidbind

[Ixthos]

This is based more on feelings than on facts, but I think that all - or maybe some ... or at least one - of the Knights Radiant, or at least all the main characters, must either have their spren changed, or dual bind to a voidspren.

Initially, this might seem like a bad idea. After all, voidspren serve Odium, and they let Odium gain some control over someone. But we already have seen an Unmade turn against Odium, and Renarin is bonded to a changed spren, which has altered at least part of one of his surges. While access to voidbinding seems dangerous, voidbinding seems like something that needs to be further revealed, and one of the best ways to do that would be for the viewpoint characters to explore it. The Fused use the surges - knights being able to voidbind would be something outside of the expected norm.

And there is one other main point - void binding sounds like a combination of Odium and Honour. If surgebinding is of Honour and Cultivation (and I am aware that this doesn't really match the idea of the Fused having surges unless it is a hack, or simply how surges are accessed, which Fused do differently), and fabrials are of Odium and Cultivation (again an assumption), then voidbinding would be something that itself is not necessarily a power kept from the knights. If a certain young knight can voidbind, then why not let the others also. Honour has been shown to not be entirely good, and Odium not entirely bad.

 

Lastly, and this is a small part, but something I've been wondering is if the knights can have both sword and shield. If they bind two spren, then they can have a sword and shield, or bow and string, at the same time.

 

I should also note that it might be that Fabrials will eventually be used to voidbind instead of having to bond a voidspren, and half-shards could be a knight's shield ... but if Fabrials can be used for voidbinding, and Venli has trapped a voidspren inside her gemheart ... perhaps there is more than one way to gain voidbinding, assuming Fabrials can access voidbinding.

[Bigmikey357]

Binding 2 spren isn't impossible but it's my understanding that spren do not like to share. So it probably falls in the realm of technically possible but functionality impossible. Nor can the spren form 2 different weapons because that would involve the spren splitting themselves. So no sword shield combo or duel-wields except in very special cases like Nale. Or, here's a crazy one. Say Adolin never revives Maya but attracts another Spren. Adolin then gains a Nahel bond but Maya doesn't scream at him because he treats her with honor. Maya won't be able to be variable weaponry but she will still be able to be summoned and dismissed. The other spren can then be his shield.

As far as Radiants learning to voidbind, I would not mind if the narrative turned in that direction for at least a couple of our protagonists.  Grey Jedi are always entertaining after all.

 

[galendo]

This could be a possibility but not, realistically, until the back five books.  Right now there is neither the time nor the need for such a development, and it'll take at least one book's worth of setup just to develop the need for the Radiants to do that and establish the possibility that they can.  Don't expect such a development until book 6 at least, and more realistically book 7 or 8.

[ChetLee]

I don't think this would be necessary and I couldn't see it actually happening, but I would like to see what secrets voidbinders have. We do have one radiant that has bonded a void spren so we will get some insight. I would be interesting if one of the characters were able to bind both types of spren and end up with a devil and angle situation going on.

[Ixthos]

@Bigmikey357 just to clarify, the two weapons idea is for bonding two spren, not a single spren splitting. I like the Adolin idea though! If another spren merged with her that might also change things.

@galendo I can wait :-P voidbinding probably will become more important in the back five, I agree, but it will probably still be showing up before the end of the first five - after all, more about Renarin's abilities need to be shown before his focus book - even if he doesn't master his abilities they probably will experiment in part with them. And if things go the way I suspect, several powers will only be revealed in full near the end anyway.

On the topic of spren sharing, another thing that made me consider this was Kaladin's chapters with the voidspren. We know Kaladin didn't choose to bond Syl, she started it, but he did have to agree to progress it. We don't know if a spren can stop another from bonding their radiant, and her possessiveness over him after he left the singers - batting at the spren surrounding him - along with the way the voidspren had been treating Kaladin seemed like foreshadowing - two spren competing for a knight's loyalty, or making the knight more like themselves. Odium's spren don't seem like they will accept a knight has already bonded, it wouldn't deter them, and Honour's spren wouldn't just let go.

Now, if only Renarin ends up voidbinding, that can still work. Voidbinding might only require a single spren, that is it might be possible to access all nine levels with only a single spren, or maybe only the windrunners to stonewards would need to bind, and Dalinar will remain unaffected. But I think the idea, as @ChetLee said, of the two sides trying to influence the knight ... it would fit the motif well.

[Bigmikey357]

Kinda like angel and devil riding each shoulder.

[ChetLee]

1 hour ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Kinda like angel and devil riding each shoulder.

Exactly:) it's fun to imagine the two spren with personality similar to crowley and aziraphale. Lol 

[ND103]

Haven't we already seen a case of a knight radiant bound to both a radiant spren and a voidspren? Namely Venli. Venli is bonded to Timbre, and the unnamed voidspren of some sort. It was considered impossible for a radiant spren to bond the Parsh but that's clearly not the case. Why should the reverse of Venli's case not be possible where a void spren can bond an already bonded knight/an already bonded knight can bond with a void spren that their radiant spren defeats? Or depending on how dark you want to imagine, the void spren binding a knight, and defeating the radiant spren so it's not really dead but suppressed until the knight/void spren wants to use is a surges?

 

The only contradiction I see to this is - humans ain't got no gemhearts. So there's a chance that can't happen. But honestly, I'm not sure why that would be any kind of problem. And that's not even without introducing hemalurgy to the mix. Anyone know any WOBs on multiple spren bonding one person?

 

EDIT - here's something interesting I noticed about Renerin and Glys. In OB (Kindle edition, pg 1175) -

 

It will fear you! Glys said from within Renarin. 

Glys said from within Renarin. Even if humans don't have gemhearts apparently a spren like Glys can bond with Renarin in a way similar to Venli and the voidspren/Timbre. 

Hmmm. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by ND103

[.S.A.M.K.M]

It is said for a knight radiant to bond a spren, they need a crack in their soul. Gem hearts provide an easier access point. This is usually from trauma, but there is a theory that Renarin is autistic. So he was born with a condition. Could it allow him to bond more that one spren? A spen binds him, then he suffers another trauma which allow another crack for a spren.

[CrazyRioter]

I wouldn't be surprised if somebody did end up with a double nahel bond at some point.

There's also a theory going on about Sja-anat becoming effectively a fourth Bondsmith spren since she claims to want to defect from Odium's side.

[Scion of the Mists]

On 10/14/2018 at 1:33 AM, .S.A.M.K.M said:

It is said for a knight radiant to bond a spren, they need a crack in their soul. Gem hearts provide an easier access point. This is usually from trauma, but there is a theory that Renarin is autistic. So he was born with a condition. Could it allow him to bond more that one spren? A spen binds him, then he suffers another trauma which allow another crack for a spren.

It is certainly possible to bond more than one Spren, the issue is being able to abide by multiple Orders' oaths simultaneously.  

Additionally, it's not necessary to undergo trauma to be bond-able.  

[.S.A.M.K.M]

If they find a good way to heal the shard blades, then joining more than knight order would be less risky.

[Spoolofwhool]

8 hours ago, .S.A.M.K.M said:

If they find a good way to heal the shard blades, then joining more than knight order would be less risky.

Not really. If the spren is healed, then it would have all the choice to bond or unbond someone based on how they're holding to the needed oaths. 

[Bigmikey357]

If a double Nahel bond is possible and is inevitable to take place within the narrative, why are we assuming that they must be spren from a different order? Say Syl had a twin sister or something like that. 

[Scion of the Mists]

34 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

If a double Nahel bond is possible and is inevitable to take place within the narrative, why are we assuming that they must be spren from a different order? Say Syl had a twin sister or something like that. 

That would be a lot easier, but I don't think that there'd be very much benefit to have two of the same spren.  You'd get another shardblade, but no additional Surges.  

[Spoolofwhool]

6 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

That would be a lot easier, but I don't think that there'd be very much benefit to have two of the same spren.  You'd get another shardblade, but no additional Surges.  

There would be a slight amplification is surgebinding ability, but that's it.

 

[Bigmikey357]

But you could fully duel wield or do the combo weapons like bow and arrow or sword shield. We want the extra surges and the additional resonances but maintaining the additional Oaths to make the magic work would be quite untenable, at least for most people. Radiants are already exceptional; asking for a random Radiant to be even more exceptional seems like we may be asking for too much.

[StormblessedSurvivor]

I'd say it would be easier to bond two spren that shared a surge, because then the orders would share a Divine Attribute

[Yata]

On 16/10/2018 at 8:49 PM, StormblessedSurvivor said:

I'd say it would be easier to bond two spren that shared a surge, because then the orders would share a Divine Attribute

Near orders don't share a divine attribute.