Toxn Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 For the past 24 hours I have been scratching my head about Zahel, in theory, actually being Vasher. While I'm not totally against this fact and would not mind it in the least of ways but I feel like there is something that is pointing to a Dalinar/Vasher tie-in. At first I was trying to tie the two characters together (Dalinar = Vasher), it sounded good in my head but Dalinar's background can easily be argued against, the tie-ins would become to complicated, plus I do not think Sanderson would make things that crazy, it is just not his style and then it hit me, Dalinar's wife. "Navani settled back, sipping her wine, safehand lying across her lap. 'Dalinar, your sons told me that you once sought the Old Magic. Why? What did you ask of the Nightwatcher and what curse did she give you in return?' 'I told them that shame is my own,' Dalinar said. 'And I will not share it." Here's the fun part, Shashara is a Returned. Prior to her Return, there is no record of her past life which makes me wonder, aside from Nightblood being on Roshar what else could possibly bring Vasher to Roshar? Maybe trying to figure out Shashara's past or maybe he does know and he wants to be around someone that knew her during a "simpler" time in her life? Yes, I agree the timelines would be and are different for each world within the cosmere but lets be real, that is the interesting part. Let me know what you guys think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) well, Zahel is Vasher. Its a fact. And this thread is a bit spoiler-y, but I think most people have read WoR already. EDIT: saw that you said *spoilers,* my bad. Edited April 30, 2014 by Khyrindor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well, Dalinar's wife would have to have been around in the last 20 years or so to have Adolin and Renarin. Warbreaker takes place before Stormlight Archive, and in Warbreaker, Shashara was killed hundreds of years ago. So, unless she can time travel and rise from the dead (again), Dalinar's wife can't be her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Thanks for pointing that out. Just found the chronology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well, Dalinar's wife would have to have been around in the last 20 years or so to have Adolin and Renarin. Warbreaker takes place before Stormlight Archive, and in Warbreaker, Shashara was killed hundreds of years ago. So, unless she can time travel and rise from the dead (again), Dalinar's wife can't be her Thanks for pointing that out. Just found the chronology. Time travel is an integral part of worldhopping though, right? I assume every world hopper isn't centuries old, they just travel time and space. Chronology doesn't really seem like an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 We don't have any information on whether time travel is involved in world hopping or not. WoB is that we've seen someone use it to go forward in time, but not backward. So Shashara wouldn't have been able to go forward 300 years, have children, then go back to be killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 We don't have any information on whether time travel is involved in world hopping or not. WoB is that we've seen someone use it to go forward in time, but not backward. So Shashara wouldn't have been able to go forward 300 years, have children, then go back to be killed We don't have information. That doesn't mean it's impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Honestly, I don't think Brandon would go there. Time travel is usually a very convoluted story-element, and he cares way to much about rules and systematics to open that can of worms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Honestly, I don't think Brandon would go there. Time travel is usually a very convoluted story-element, and he cares way to much about rules and systematics to open that can of worms. After reading Words of Radiance, I've given up on this thought. At one point Brandon sounded as though he had several rules he'd enforce on himself when writing, but I've kind of seen those fall apart. For example, he said he was against characters being brought back to life when they are killed, even off screen, because it makes it feel like death isn't a big deal when it happens. Then, in WoR, Szeth dies and gets revived, Jasnah "dies" and comes back, and to a lesser extent Gaz even comes back when we assume he is gone. I personally don't find these things distasteful, especially in a world that is organized so systematically and explained in detail, but it does get me thinking that there is really nothing stopping him from writing the story so it fits his needs and is properly exciting. He is managing a huge universe over decades of writing. If he decides that time travel is somewhat tacky but he needs to utilize it for the benefit of readers, fine by me. I expect it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numb Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Honestly, I don't think Brandon would go there. Time travel is usually a very convoluted story-element, and he cares way to much about rules and systematics to open that can of worms. We've already seen Time travel in Alloy of Law though. It's not the conventional time travel but it is still time travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 We've already seen Time travel in Alloy of Law though. It's not the conventional time travel but it is still time travel. And on that point, we've seen - what, cognitive time travel? - go both forward and backward. You can see shadows of someone's future movement as well as shadows of their past, right? Past/Alternate? Anyway, whether there is evidence or not, I wouldn't be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Well put. I do not think its a matter of his rules falling apart but like you said he could possibly be writing to fit his needs. This certainly would add a complex element to the story at hand. On the flip side, I would hate to see "time travel" become a main focal point in this series. It just does not seem to fit the mold of the story but it is not our story to tell. *In response to Bloodfalcon* Edited April 30, 2014 by Toxn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) We've already seen Time travel in Alloy of Law though. It's not the conventional time travel but it is still time travel. By that definition, we are all time travellers. I wouldn't really categorise Sliding and Pulsing aren't really about time travel in my book, but about time manipulation. And yes, Bloodfalcon, he does seem to have done a 180o on that one. I can understand Jasnah, as she has still got a story to tell, but she needed to be removed so that Shallan could grow, but his demise at the hands of Kaladin would have been more or less a perfect end to Szeth's character arc. I think his PoV book could easily have been about his backstory (as it will be), all the while keeping him relevant by letting him cast a long shadow over Roshar with the after-effects of his rampage. Another acceptable end to it would have him to just run away from Kaladin, as it would have fitted well with the "coward" theme, and the next book could then be about him coming to terms with that. His resurrection was kind of stupid, and it only really served to make Surgebinding seem a bit over-powered. I do love that he has teamed up with the Skybreakers, though, and that he has gained Nightblood. Edited April 30, 2014 by Aether 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Brandon said during the WoR tour that he really regretted having Kaladin actually kill Szeth. He wished that he had Kaladin let Szeth live, and live with his sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Then why didn't he just change it? It would only take a rewrite of like, three pages or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifth of Daybreak he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Then why didn't he just change it? It would only take a rewrite of like, three pages or so. I think we might see some continuity issues arise in the next book about the spiritual bond to his oathstone and the honorblade that could only be solved by Szeth's spiritual death. Edited April 30, 2014 by EMTrevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 He thought of it after the final draft was done and sent in, I would assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I think we might see some continuity issues arise in the next book about the spiritual bond to his oathstone and the honorblade that could only be solved by Szeth's spiritual death. You might be right there, but I still think a symbolic death would have sufficed. Nothing quite like an actual death and subsequent resurrection to rub in a "death and rebirth" motive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifth of Daybreak he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) You might be right there, but I still think a symbolic death would have sufficed. Nothing quite like an actual death and subsequent resurrection to rub in a "death and rebirth" motive. Brandon usually has a cost for his magic, and I think there's more, or rather less, to his rebirth than is first evident. If his soul was killed, I doubt it can come back whole or unaltered, if at all. If he had to agonize over the decision, I bet there's more to the story that will satisfy the need to do it. Edited April 30, 2014 by EMTrevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Which is why I am holding back my disappointing smirk until I've read the next book. While I might not immediately like or see where this is going, I respect Brandon enough to just go with it and see where it leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Which is why I am holding back my disappointing smirk until I've read the next book. While I might not immediately like or see where this is going, I respect Brandon enough to just go with it and see where it leads. Agreed. I didn't mean any of this as a jab - not at all. I just don't think we should limit the universe to what we think we know because Brandon himself seems to want certain outcomes more than he wants to avoid time travel or resurrection or whatever. It's not a bad thing, I am just trying to allow myself appropriate open-mindedness. There's only so much you can hold the guy to when his current plan spans multiple decades. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky-eyes she/her Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) And on the note of death being cheap in WOR, only Szeth died. We never got confirmation on Jasnah and Gaz's deaths since we never saw a body. As far as we know neither actually died it was just heavily implied they did. So they at least are consistent with the rules. Edited July 11, 2014 by Cheeky-eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navybrandt he/him Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 I really felt like I had confirmation of Jasnah's death. I think we need to find out more about what Elsecallers can do as those powers seem to be what saved her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefftucker0525 Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Well Brandon did say he was against resurrections and such because of the fact that people would just decide a character dying is nothing, but he also mentioned that he would resurrect some characters, it was just a special event. I cant find the quote but I think it was in a post in the Mistborn forums. EDIT: found it. It wont let me copy and paste the actual quote but heres the page, hopefully it will let me post that. Ok it wont even let me post that but its in the Mistborn forums under Theory: Hemalurgy will bring Kelsier back about half way down the page. Edited July 11, 2014 by jefftucker0525 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeromancer he/him Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 No way, no how. Hate to be a killjoy, but Shashara possessing worldhopping powers? Aside form that, it wouldn't fit Sanderson's style to combine major characters like that. (but they aren't major characters)(Yes they are - they are symbolically important.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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