Themasterhunter Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 Oathbringer Spoilers Spoiler Hey So what if Vivienna's sword was forged with bones (or bone shaped things) in it to awaken it? would that negate the "consuming" aspect of nightblood? Even then would the breath required end up being the same? Sorry if this has been asked before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 redshadow310 he/him Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 I think that her blade was actually forged while in the Cognitive Realm. Assuming breath was used and not stormlight to craft it, I'm sure a lot of emotional baggage comes with that investiture. A smith in the Cognitive Realm would perhaps be able to see these impurities and hammer them out before the sword itself gains it's own cognitive identity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Calderis he/him Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 I think it's just a type 4 that turned out right. A normal sword awakened without whatever weirdness went on to make Nightblood so storming broken. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Spoolofwhool Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 Like what Cal said. The power that Nightblood exhibits is not present by default in other Type IV Awakened Entities. Like all awakening, the results are due to the command and visualization of the awakener at the time of awakening. Shashara visualized something weird to make it work, and as a result Nightblood is really weird. Whoever made Azure's sword probably did something similar, while still achieving a significant ability on the weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Weltall Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) Vivenna's sword is noted to be related to Nightblood but explicitly different from it (where Brandon described the latter's creation as going 'horribly horribly wrong') so yeah, it's either because her sword lacks whatever made Nightblood the way it is if there was some external catalyst or because the Awakening was more refined due to a couple centuries passing between the two Awakenings and whoever did it (Vasher or Yesteel almost certainly) was thus more experienced than Shashara. This may be related to a question Brandon was asked about whether one could create a weapon like Nightblood that wouldn't feed off the weilder's Breath and he said it's possible but that it would be 'a dangerous thing to do'. @Spoolofwhool Technically, Nightblood is the only confirmed Type-IV Entity. There's a difference between a Type-III Entity that's Awakened from inorganic material (requires the Ninth Heightening and a lot of spare Breath) and Nightblood (essentially a Type-III that attained sapience). Edited September 5, 2018 by Weltall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Spoolofwhool Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Weltall said: Nightblood (essentially a Type-III that attained sapience). So... a Type-IV Awakened Entity by definition. I'm not sure what the rest of your comment to me is correcting me on because I never said they were the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Calderis he/him Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 I think this bit from OB in itself confirms its a type-IV Quote “Draw her carefully,” Azure said to Borea, the first mate, as Shallan approached. “Don’t pull her out all the way—she doesn’t know you.” Borea wore a uniform like the captain’s, all stiff and no-nonsense. She undid a small latch on the Shardblade, eased it from its sheath a half inch, then drew in a sharp breath. “It … tingles.” “She’s investigating you,” Azure said. “It really is as you say,” Borea said. “A Shardblade that requires no spren—no enslavement. This is something else. How did you do it?” “I will trade knowledge, per our deal, once we arrive.” Borea snapped the Blade closed. “A good bond, human. We accept your offer.” Surprisingly, the woman held the weapon toward Azure, who took it. If that doesn't imply a level of sentience to the blade at least, I've misunderstood Awakening. A type-III shouldn't be capable of investigating anything beyond what it's been commanded to, and it shouldn't be able to "know" anyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Weltall Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 7 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said: So... a Type-IV Awakened Entity by definition. I'm not sure what the rest of your comment to me is correcting me on because I never said they were the same. Most of my post wasn't directed at you specifically, just musing on what might distinguish Vivenna's sword from Nightblood. But the part I did direct at you was simply pointing out that we don't know of any Type-IV entities other than Nightblood, so we don't actually know that it's traits are "not present by default in other Type IV Awakened Entities" because there is no 'default' to compare it to, yet. Dunno, maybe I thought you weren't clear on the distinction between stone/metal Type-III entities and our one Type-IV? If so, apologies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 goody153 Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 (edited) Wasn't Nightblood weird because Endowment was involved with it ? (don't have the WoB btw but i heard about it). It might be likely that Vivienna actually has the normal version of what nightblood should be. Edited September 6, 2018 by goody153 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Spoolofwhool Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 9 hours ago, Weltall said: But the part I did direct at you was simply pointing out that we don't know of any Type-IV entities other than Nightblood, so we don't actually know that it's traits are "not present by default in other Type IV Awakened Entities" because there is no 'default' to compare it to, yet. True, but it seems very likely that Azure's sword is a Type IV Awakened Entity because of how she refers to it. In any case, based on what we know of Awakening, there should be no reason that the power exhibited by Nightblood is default for all Type IVs. 6 hours ago, goody153 said: Wasn't Nightblood weird because Endowment was involved with it ? (don't have the WoB btw but i heard about it). It might be likely that Vivienna actually has the normal version of what nightblood should be. As far as I'm aware they aren't any WoBs on the matter, but some people do suspect that that is the case. Saying that Vivienna has a normal version of Nightblood isn't accurate per se since it's not like Nightblood is an abnormality from another standard, as he's the first of his kind. It would be more accurate to say that her sword is closer to what Nightblood was planned to be, imitating more closely the abilities of sprenblades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Yata he/him Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 Like others already pointed Azure's Blade is simply an example of a normal outcome for a Type IV. Nightblood is something oddity that happen for whatever sequence of weird events (willing or unwilling) that made him the overeccitable Eldrich Abomination we all love. Es example: Quote Megasif [PENDING REVIEW] In London I wanted to ask about Nightblood. The way he is Invested, is that a one-off-case kind of thing, or is it possible to do another of that level? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] It was really bizarre, and I will explain it eventually and that will let you know why. It's theoretically possible to do almost anything so it's theoretically possible to do what he did but it'd be very hard. source Here Brandon stated how making another Nightblood would be extremely hard. While we know from Warbreaker Annotations that if the war was truly started in the book. Yestrell would mass produce Type IV for the Idrisians to fight Halladren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Tglassy Posted September 25, 2018 Report Share Posted September 25, 2018 I feel like there's a WoB that suggests that Nightblood was made using different kinds of investitures, all mixed together. Since Nightblood used 1000 breaths, but seems to be invested so much that 1000 breaths just isn't enough to cover it. Someone asked if Nightblood could be used as a Hemalurgic Spike, but I'm wondering if Nightblood was made FROM a Hemalurgic spike. In other words, Sashara killed someone on Scadrial with the sword that was night blood, taking part of their soul, and then used breaths to awaken it. Of course, being a Hemalurgic Spike, it would resist Awakening as it is already invested, but we've seen that a sufficient amount of Investiture can get past that, which could be why it takes 1000 breaths to do so. This could be why he has sentience. He's got part of a person's soul, which has been awakened. It could also be why he destroys everything he touches. Hemalurgy is end-negative, which means that some energy is lost upon its use. That, coupled with the vague command "Destroy Evil", may be why he is the way he is. Azure's sword may have been awakened without using Hemalurgy, and therefore does not have all the drawbacks that Nightblood has. Perhaps by awakening a Metalmind that has a crap ton of Identity stored in it. Which would make it be made of Aluminum. Again, it would resist tampering with investiture, but likely not be impossible. Just my thoughts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Calderis he/him Posted September 25, 2018 Report Share Posted September 25, 2018 @Tglassy the problem with that is that, even if that were the case, a Hemalurgic spike does not contain Ruin's investiture (other than the portion that makes up a Scadrian soul). Ruin's power is used to steal the Investiture, but a spike contains the investiture from the soul that was stolen, not anything granted by Ruin. In a Scadrian, that would be more Preservation than Ruin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Tglassy Posted September 25, 2018 Report Share Posted September 25, 2018 If that were the case, then Hemalurgic Spikes would be of Preservation, not Ruin, and Ruin wouldn’t be able to take control of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Calderis he/him Posted September 25, 2018 Report Share Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, Tglassy said: If that were the case, then Hemalurgic Spikes would be of Preservation, not Ruin, and Ruin wouldn’t be able to take control of them. By that logic, how does it provide the Allomancy it steals if Allomancy is a direct flow of investiture provided by a Connection to Preservation? The hole in Hemalurgy, and the power the spike contains are not the same thing. The hole may be something of Ruin, but it allows access to anything with the power to manipulate it, as seen through Allomancy controlling Koloss and Kandra. Quote Chaos2651 Is there a rationale to how Hemalurgic powers are distributed? I tried to look for a system, but they seem rather randomly distributed. For example, the spike which steals Allomantic powers for a particular quadrant is not always in one particular spot. Brandon Sanderson That is correct, it's not always in one particular spot. None of them are. I used as my model on this magic system the concept of acupuncture and pressure points. Placing a Hemalurgic spike is a very delicate and specific art. Imagine there being a different overlay on a human body, like a new network of nerves, representing lines, points, and 'veins' of the soul's spiritual makeup. What is happening with Hemalurgy, essentially, is that you're driving a spike through a specific point on a person's body and ripping off a piece of their soul. It sticks to the spike on the Spiritual Realm. Then, you place that spike on someone else in a specific place (not exactly the same place, but on the right spiritual pressure point) and 'hot wire' the spirit to give it Hemalurgy or Feruchemy. It's like you're fooling the spiritual DNA, creating a work-around. Or, in some cases, changing the spirit to look like something else, which has the immediate effect of distorting the body and transforming it into a new creature. Hemalurgy is a very brutal way of making changes like this, though, so it often has monstrous effects. (Like with the koloss.) And in most cases, it leaves a kind of 'hole' in the spirit's natural defenses, which is how Ruin was able to touch the souls of Hemalurgists directly. source Edited September 26, 2018 by Calderis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Yata he/him Posted September 26, 2018 Report Share Posted September 26, 2018 9 hours ago, Tglassy said: If that were the case, then Hemalurgic Spikes would be of Preservation, not Ruin, and Ruin wouldn’t be able to take control of them. Preservation can't took control of spiked beings for a simple matter of iNTENT. The whole problem that stops him from injecting thoughts into people (widening their cracks in the soul) stop him from doing a much greater pressure to control them. Every Shard could control someone spiked enough and any mortal with a compatible way to push himself into someonelse inner self (as showed with Emotional Allomancy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Scimmy Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 Jeezy Pete’s! I’ve read oathbringer 3 times and I never picked up Azure was Vivenna. Kelsier was right, there is always another secret. I guess it makes sense though, cause I can usually identify worldhoppers, but you people are crazy in being able to figure out who they actually are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Themasterhunter
Oathbringer Spoilers
Hey So what if Vivienna's sword was forged with bones (or bone shaped things) in it to awaken it? would that negate the "consuming" aspect of nightblood?
Even then would the breath required end up being the same?
Sorry if this has been asked before...
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