Andrew the Great he/him Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 That, and it's also possible that Odium's left Sazed alone just because he holds two Shards, and therefore poses a rather significant threat. I don't think Odium would do anything to threaten Sazed until he was relatively certain he could take him out, which likely means finding an ally or taking another Shard somehow. He saves Sazed for last, uses Bavadin to take him out, then turns on Bavadin, maybe? That would be my guess. It is, of course, entirely possible that he's taken out Saze already, but I tend to think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalyst21 he/him Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) Oh, I agree that Sazed is probably still around. I can't imagine that Brandon would write a 3-book series about someone taking 2 of the Shards if he didn't come back around again. Hmmm, I just had an interesting thought. What if the eventual resolution of the series is Sazed (or someone else) gathering all the Shards and Splinters and re-creating Adonalsium as a Paradise? I don't believe Sazed can hold any more shards. Think about this, Sazed, the only known holder of multiple shards (Ruin and Preservation), took possession of both of them at the same time. Odium, who has killed other shards (Aona and Skai), shattered the shards instead of taking control of them himself. If there is to be one holder of all the shards, it is my impression that they would have to take all of them at the same time, based on the above. Edited October 13, 2011 by Catalyst21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I don't believe Sazed can hold any more shards. Think about this, Sazed, the only holder of multiple shards (Ruin and Preservation), took possession of both of them at the same time. Odium, who has killed other shards (Aona and Skai), shattered the shards instead of taking control of them himself. If there is to be one holder of all the shards, it is my impression that they would have to take all of them at the same time, based on the above. I agree with this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darniil he/him Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I agree with this statement. Yeah, that definitely makes sense. On a different note, why does the subject say "Hoid wrote the letter in tWoK to", but the "to" part isn't mentioned in the first post? It's only touched on later in the thread. Does that have something to do with the merging that Rubix mentioned on page 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter she/her Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I also agree. and I think it's cause he wasn't sure who the letter was written to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Also because I'm stupid. *Edits* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Also because I'm stupid. *Edits* Personally, I expect there are some perfectly logical rules about who can take a shard, and when. I'm also quite certain there is absolutely no way Brandon will tell us what they are at the moment. He deliberately left it a mystery in Mistborn. Part of it is probably the fact that Sazed was a Feruchemist, and thus had equal access to Ruin and Preservation, but that's probably only the smallest part of it, or perhaps a side effect. (E.g. anybody capable of taking both Shards would by their nature have access to Feruchemy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted October 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 Yeah, Brandon is surely keeping that information close to the chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Well, it could definitely be a giant spoiler of future books, so it's pretty understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arondell Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Odium, who has killed other shards (Aona and Skai), shattered the shards instead of taking control of them himself. If there is to be one holder of all the shards, it is my impression that they would have to take all of them at the same time, based on the above. Breaking my lurker habits to throw out a quick question here. Has any theorizing been made as to why Odium has been so successful in killing other shard holders? The general impression I have is that Aona(Devotion?), Skai(Unity?), and Tanavast(Honor) were all near opposites to Rayse(Odium). What is it about Odium that none of those shards could effectively defend themselves against him? As for Sazed(Preservation/Ruin) I would hope that of all the shards Preservation would be hard to destroy. Especially when linked up with Ruin. Then again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Toast he/him Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Breaking my lurker habits to throw out a quick question here. Has any theorizing been made as to why Odium has been so successful in killing other shard holders? The general impression I have is that Aona(Devotion?), Skai(Unity?), and Tanavast(Honor) were all near opposites to Rayse(Odium). What is it about Odium that none of those shards could effectively defend themselves against him? As for Sazed(Preservation/Ruin) I would hope that of all the shards Preservation would be hard to destroy. Especially when linked up with Ruin. Then again... Yeah, seems to me that Sazed would be pretty tough for Odium to handle. Not just two Shards, but the two best suited for attacking and defending... not a fight I'd be eager to get into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darniil he/him Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 That's assuming that Odium knows about Harmony. I'm sure he knew about Preservation and Ruin, but he may have put those two on a back-burner while he dealt with others first. (Since they so perfectly countered each other, odds are they wouldn't focus their attentions anywhere else.) He may not have any updated information about Scadrial yet. I'm sure if we knew how Adonalsium shattered, we'd be able to figure out the weaknesses in the other Shards. It's possible that Odium may not have exploited a weakness in the intent of those Shards he's killed*, but rather a weakness that's universal to the Shards of Adonalsium - perhaps something related to the weakness that allowed Adonalsium to be shattered in the first place. And while Harmony would definitely be a force to be reckoned with - especially with Sazed's mind behind it - Odium has lots of experience with his Shard, and he also has three confirmed kills already under his belt. He won't be easily opposed, even by someone holding two Shards. * To elaborate, Honor might have a unique weakness-in-intent to dishonor, "Devotion" might have a weakness to indifference, Endowment to greed, Cultivation to decay. (Preservation and Ruin were probably each other's weakness, considering how they annihilated each other when Vin confronted Ruin.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darniil he/him Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Something else I noticed when I was reading this quote again: One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say. In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to challenge Rayse. Hoid uses names of people, not Shards. Brandon seems to blend the two - which makes sense, in a way, since that's what happens over time - but Hoid, even after all this time (however long that is), still refers to the holders by name, as if they were independent of their Shards. I just thought that was interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightReader she/her Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Hoid uses names of people, not Shards. Brandon seems to blend the two - which makes sense, in a way, since that's what happens over time - but Hoid, even after all this time (however long that is), still refers to the holders by name, as if they were independent of their Shards. That's probably because that's how Hoid thinks of them. Brandon confirmed that Hoid was around when Adonalsium shattered and he's been travelling around keeping an eye on all the pieces ever since as far as we know. He probably knew many of the shard holders personally before they took up their shards. Kind of the way we all tend to refer to Harmony as Sazed, because we knew the character as himself before he took took up the shards and became Harmony. Certainly based on how Hoid talks about Rayse's personality, he knew the man when he was still a man, and so that's how he still thinks of him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter she/her Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I suspect Hoid probably knew all the Shardholders to some degree before Adonalsium shattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baijo Gosum Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 I don't believe Sazed can hold any more shards. Think about this, Sazed, the only known holder of multiple shards (Ruin and Preservation), took possession of both of them at the same time. Odium, who has killed other shards (Aona and Skai), shattered the shards instead of taking control of them himself. If there is to be one holder of all the shards, it is my impression that they would have to take all of them at the same time, based on the above. Odium might have had a reason to shatter the shard instead of taking it up. Maybe he wanted to avoid the long term influence of the new shards on his personality, or maybe it is the influence of Oduim's intent, disdain or hatred of other shards or something like that. Has there been much discussion about the recipient of the letter? I don't know much about DragonSteel, but isn't that world Hoid's homeland, and didn't Brandon say in an interview that Dragons did exist there? "you old reptile" ..... maybe? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalyst21 he/him Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Odium might have had a reason to shatter the shard instead of taking it up. Maybe he wanted to avoid the long term influence of the new shards on his personality, or maybe it is the influence of Oduim's intent, disdain or hatred of other shards or something like that. Has there been much discussion about the recipient of the letter? I don't know much about DragonSteel, but isn't that world Hoid's homeland, and didn't Brandon say in an interview that Dragons did exist there? "you old reptile" ..... maybe? Welcome to the 17shard Baijo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baijo Gosum Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Welcome to the 17shard Baijo. Thanks :-), I realize as soon as I completed my last post that there has been much discussion about the recipient of the letter, but I'm leaning away from it being Sazed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 he/him Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Yeah I agree. I think it makes sense that there are Dragons in Dragonsteel, and since that may also be the origin story for the Shattering (and Hoid), it makes sense that Hoid is talking to someone he knows from Dragonsteel who knows everyone else (just like he does) personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Yeah I agree. I think it makes sense that there are Dragons in Dragonsteel, and since that may also be the origin story for the Shattering (and Hoid), it makes sense that Hoid is talking to someone he knows from Dragonsteel who knows everyone else (just like he does) personally. Actually, the letter makes a lot more sense if the recipient is familiar with the Shardholders personally. It assumes a lot of background we aren't privy to, and which Sazed had not personal experienced either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted October 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 That's very true. The recipient would have had to be alive at the time where Odium went to Sel, which Sazed was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 That's very true. The recipient would have had to be alive at the time where Odium went to Sel, which Sazed was not. Wonderful, chaos! A very specific detail which we can use to place the recipient in time. That's it: The recipient is definitely not Sazed. In fact, the recipient was alive well before the events of Elantris, if the deaths of Aona and Skai could possibly be considered news, even sarcastically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Wonderful, chaos! A very specific detail which we can use to place the recipient in time. That's it: The recipient is definitely not Sazed. In fact, the recipient was alive well before the events of Elantris, if the deaths of Aona and Skai could possibly be considered news, even sarcastically. I think we already knew that simply from the fact the recipient would have had personal knowledge of not only Ati, but also Rayse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 I think we already knew that simply from the fact the recipient would have had personal knowledge of not only Ati, but also Rayse. That's good indirect evidence, but one could argue that by holding the power, Sazed would eventually gain more memories of its past. With the events on Sel (including Odium's visit) having been stated as having occurred during the lifespan of both sender and recipient, we can absolutely outlaw every main character we have enough background on (except Hoid) for either sender or receiver of the letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycoltbug Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 It's been officially confirmed by Brandon that the reciepent of the letter in Way of Kings is in fact also in Dragonsteel. Huge question answered there for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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