[Discussion] Fanfiction and literature

[Quiver he/him]

Disclaimer The following is intended to promote discussion on the variety of opinions and viewpoints on the issue of fan fiction, it is not an attack on any individual, or individuals, or on the subject of fanfics. It is intended to encourage people to chime in with thoughts, from both sides of the debate.

Thought this might be an interesting topic for discussion; does writing Fanfiction count as 'real' writing? And does reading or writing fan fiction help or hinder someone's creativity/legitimacy as an author?

I've seen different views and opinions on the subject. On the one hand, it can be a pretty easy way to get started writing; I got my start writing really bad X-Men fan fiction, and as a matter of fact, the amount of writing I've done over the years has somewhat declined in proportion to the amount of Fanfiction I consume- I've always found it a lot easier to work and twist ideas already suggested by canon rather than create new ones.

And is that really wrong? I'm not trying to profit off affection for the cosmere, or superman, or MLP. It's just a means of encouragement, a way of getting the kick that starts it off. It lets the hypothetical me practice storytelling techniques with a (relatively) ready-made audience. Aside from the fact that I live off attention! it's a lot easier to get feedback about what you're doing right, what you're doing wrong, etc when you have a large audience consuming your work- and if there's one thing fandoms generate, it's audiences.

There's also an issue with regards to the quality of fan fiction because- and this is directly related to why I stopped reading it- most Fan fiction is awful.

Seriously. Painfully awful.

But that doesn't mean the isn't good fan-written stories as well. I mentioned MLP because, lately, I've been reading some very well done Fanfiction related to that universe, Fanfiction which has sparked my curiosity and given me an idea for my own Ponyfiction. To use a subject more relevant to this board, the first series of fictions displayed in FeatherWriters fan club post are cosmere fan fictions- fan fictions which I enjoyed. This forum has a section for both writing groups and for cosmere fan fiction.

Not to mention the fact that, in completing The Wheel of Time, it could be argued that Brandon has participated in fan fiction. After all, he's expressed his affection for the series many times, and his notes on completing the series mentions that, while he was working to Jordan's general design, he included his own thoughts (I think? I admit, I haven't those articles in a while)...

Besides Wheel of Time, though, there are published novels which could be considered fan fiction. Fifty Shades of Grey began life as a Twilight fan fiction, and I believe I read somewhere that Mortal Instruments has a connection to the. Harry Potter community in some way. And what are the various Sherlock Holmes pastiches, if not commercially printed fanon?

Even so, while some authors seem supportive of the fandom movement, I've seen others who are extremely critical of it. George R R Martin, in particular, seems really strongly against it. I can't cite sources (and if I'm wrong, please tell me so I can correct it!), but I'm sure I've seen comments issued by him along the lines of dissuading people from writing Westeros-based fiction or using his characters, on the basis that character creation. Is one of the fundamental parts of story telling.

And... well, I can't rogue with that logic. It is good to encourage creativity, so does that mean fan written stories, by their nature, are inherently worse than original writings?

What are you're thoughts? Is fan fiction something that should be encouraged and embraced, or the sort of thing that isn't 'real' writing?

[Wyrmhero he/him]

It's always good to encourage creativity, in my opinion. The fact that it's based on someone else's work doesn't mean it can't be creative. The only problem with fanfiction is that it usually isn't creative. The reason so much fanfiction is below par is because the writers either don't care for what they're writing, or they set it in such a way that it results in a completely different world which isn't connected to the original work in anything other than character name - This is obvious with the apparent love of high school fanfiction, since most fanfiction authors are (American) high school students. Anything says that, you know it's going to be poor.

 

The other problem is that when people start writing, they have no experience of actually writing or planning before. They'll write something and post their first draft, possibly the first thing they've ever creatively written (for a given value of creativity). I know I'm guilty of this. At a young age, you think it's the best thing you've ever thought of. You want people to know how brilliant it is. Now I am older, wiser, have more experience in reading and more experience in writing, I know how much of a fool I was. I can look back on old works, particularly old RPs set in a universe (collaborative fanfiction, you could call it), and say to myself 'I had some good ideas. They might not have been implemented well, but the core idea was good'. That's something I can take away from it, as well as the fact that I have improved as a writer immensely.

 

You get different opinions of course depending on who you ask. If I was an author, I would be pleased that people like my universe enough to write their own little bits. In a way, I see it like game modding, which I am also a great fan of. You mentioned George RR Martin, and other authors - I know at least that there's a part in Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next series (in which all literature exists in its own, separate world) where the protagonist meets badly made caricatures of herself from the land of fanfiction, and the author really makes in plain and clear that he hates it passionately.

 

You mentioned that Martin dislikes it because it means people don't make characters up. That is a part of storytelling, yes. But I would argue that the fact that people can use them to practice writing really quickly is rather good. Of course, they fall short on characterisation because of that as a necessity, but I still think it's a good way to get quickly into writing, and more importantly to a place where critique can be given to improve your writing. It's almost impossible for people just doing their own world to get that sort of discussion going, simply because people usually aren't interested in reading an unknown work online.

 

Some fanfiction has some really creative ideas. I wouldn't say I've ever read a piece of fanfiction that has been better than the work it's been based upon, but usually the best fanfiction takes the universe and changes the focus onto things the author didn't comment upon, possibly due to the audience it was aimed at or other limitations. It's just when the author ignores the universe (or changes arbitrary things) that problems happen, in my opinion.

 

Of course, we've recently seen some fanfiction becoming actual fiction, which I think is a very dangerous trend, particularly when it comes to fanfiction written on fanfiction.net. The problem there is that it isn't their own universe, the characters aren't their own characters (even if they have a different name), and thus a lot of stuff will be missing. But then, the most of sort of people who read fanfiction and would read things like that (naming no names) don't critically review it, and will miss things like this.

 

So, in summary: I think fanfiction is good for creativity, but you shouldn't expect great things of it. There are some isolated pieces of really good work in every fandom - Sturgeon's Law. But primarily it should be seen as someone's hobby and practice, rather than anything more solid.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Wyrmhero

[GreyPilgrim he/him]

I personally don't read a lot of fan fiction, mostly because as has been said the vast majority of it is young writers playing around with craft, rarely putting out good results. I do however believe that there is a place for it.

In my experience, the hardest thing about starting to learn to write is finding ideas. I can't tell you how many times I have decided to write something but just couldn't think of anything to write about, particularly since, being a fantasy fan, anything I want to write would be fantasy and thus requires a greater concept than much other literature. I'm sure many people have experienced the same thing. Fan fiction can provide a solution for this. You already have the world set out for you, and a bunch of potential characters. This allows a writer to work with his or her craft so that when he or she finally gets a great idea, it can be written well.

I agree that fan fiction has the potential to hamper creativity. The problem is that many fanfic writers, even those writing it in the same situation I just described, simply grab characters right out of the original book and use them. This can be done well, of course. One can choose to provide a different point of view on the character, to show him or her in a different light, or be creative with that character. But in the vast majority of fanfic I have read this is not the case.

So I believe that writing fan fiction is a great way to develop one's writing craft as well as creativity, as long as one does not simply regurgitate what one's favorite authors have already done. A world already created has great potential. One does not have to use preexisting characters. One can instead create new ones that fit perfectly into the world they are writing in.

You're right, Quiver, that Brandon's writing in the Wheel of Time was in several ways fanfic. He had long been a fan. The main differences of course are first that he was already a fairly well established writer and second that what he wrote was published as books in the series and totally canon.

I also want to note how there are several examples now of fan fiction being truly published. What is any Star Wars or Star Trek novel you see in the book store? I also seem to remember that High Howey, author of Wool opened the world up to others to write in, and that I believe is becoming a thing too.

To those who believe like GRRM: Fanfic is a good way for writers to develop their writing. It is not inherently evil. It has benefits and disadvantages, but overall I will apply my general belief about the world, which is to let people do what they want to do as long as it's not directly harmful to anyone, and do what I want to do, regardless of what others believe.

[Gabriele she/her]

Lol, ideas have never been my problem. I got a whole garden full of plotbunnies. It's more like time to write them all since my speed is more GRR Martin than Sanderson.

 

That said, I've been 'guilty' of writing some fanfiction myself. First as teenager and before I even knew what fanfiction and Mary Sue self inserts were, and I hope Tolstoy's ghost never finds out about me saving Andrej in War and Peace.   The other was much later when I had started my own stuff but co-administered and edited a now defunct LOTR fanfiction board, one with quality standards and a proper submission process. I wrote some stories for that myself and I admit to some slashy undertones. I read a lot of LOTR fanfiction too, and the quality varied from dang good to abysmal. Several writers of that board have moved to their own fiction, so it can be a starting point.

 

And some do it just for the fun and don't have any ambitions about original fiction. If it makes people happy, why not. The one caveat I have is that if an author explicitely states he/she doesn't approve of fanfiction, that should be respected at least re. presentation on the online media.

 

I think if it's a good start of a writing career or more a hinder of creativity is a personal thing and a question of what you want: just having some fun, or indeed starting a career as writer.  In case of the latter, fanfic should perhaps be restricted to a short learning phase. But I suppose if you get plotbunnies, you will move on, and the process of writing seems to attract those like spren.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Gabriele

[Zerovirus]

I think the whole 'does fanfic help people develop writing skills?' misses the point of fanfiction entirely. It's like if you saw a kid playing with action figures and snatched the action-figure out of their hands, and then yelled at them about how 'Playing with action figures doesn't teach you sculpture!' Of course it doesn't- the playing is its own purpose, not an intermediary towards some other goal.

 

Let people play with the things they want, and when they ask to borrow the toys you designed don't refuse them. Writing should be played with like action-figures, meant for human interaction, not locked away like ancient greek statues, made for a look-don't-touch mentality.

[Mistdork she/her]

I do a lot of non-fiction writing in my field of study (it's history/economics), so...I use fanfiction and short story writing to break up the pace. Otherwise, everything gets stale. The stuff I wrote has never been that good. I'm not a gifted (or even good) creative writer, but this only hit me after taking a Creative Writing course in college. It was kind of like that kid that thinks he's a great artist because they're little tribe of friends told them so (because they didn't want them to feel bad), but then he goes to a real art gallery and realizes that he had no idea about proportions, perspective, or prospects. Still, dabbling in art, like dabbling in creative writing, is a hard habit to break, it also relieves stress, especially if it's not your job.

 

So, I support it...to an extent. Fanfiction can be a great teaching tool. It can teach people how to write characters in character, it can teach people how to plot stories and what works and what doesn't work, but it can also teach people bad writing habits, like poor grammar and sentence structure. It's not that fanfiction is immoral, but...it can bring real harm too, since writing is used in most fields, even if that is just writing a good resume...Fanfiction writing is fun and it can help, but I'm just weary about promoting.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

I think the whole 'does fanfic help people develop writing skills?' misses the point of fanfiction entirely. It's like if you saw a kid playing with action figures and snatched the action-figure out of their hands, and then yelled at them about how 'Playing with action figures doesn't teach you sculpture!' Of course it doesn't- the playing is its own purpose, not an intermediary towards some other goal.

 

Let people play with the things they want, and when they ask to borrow the toys you designed don't refuse them. Writing should be played with like action-figures, meant for human interaction, not locked away like ancient greek statues, made for a look-don't-touch mentality.

 

I really like the way this is put here, actually. I see a lot of people in this thread talking about how fanfiction is a tool, how it's value is in the fact that it can help improve original writing. While that's true, I think Zerovirus is on to something with this thread that fanfiction has merit of its own right. 

 

Obviously I'm probably biased. Quiver already mentioned that he's read my fanfiction, so obviously I'm a fanfiction writer. I'm not much of a fanfic reader though, actually. I read the stories that my friends write, because I know that my friends are good writers and I know that their ideas of characterization line up with mine (talking Cosmere fanfic mostly). However, I've had some fics reccommended to me that were very excellent and that I thoroughly enjoyed. On a day to day basis though? I'm not the person who goes out and searches fanfic to read. I just don't have time. I've got writing to do!

 

The ways that I use fanfiction are things that you can't do in original writing, they are unique to fanfic. Things like alternate universes or canon divergence or character appreciation. It's a mind exercise almost, and a way to test my skill and knowledge of say, Stormlight Archive. I love these kinds of "what if" questions. What if Kaladin ended up becoming a surgeon and made his way to Kharbranth? What if Renarin had Radiant powers that he was hiding in The Way of Kings? Or, for the story I'm somewhat working on right now, what would happen if Renarin somehow ended up in Bridge 4 during the events of The Way of Kings? (Answer: lots of sadness.) One of my friends is currently writing a statusswap SA story: what if Kaladin were the lighteyed prince, and the Kholins were darkeyes? That's a VERY fun sort of concept to play with. 

 

Or for things like an alternate universe, we start to really dig into the meat of the characters. What makes Kaladin, Kaladin? Can we pull him out of his world and still make him recognizable? Who would he be if his life were different? What about the other characters? Renarin, Adolin, Shallan, Dalinar, who are they really deep down at the core of their being? What is the part of them that makes them themselves? What are the things that would not ever change about them, and how would different situations bring those out? 

 

Or, to go a step further, let's take things like crossovers. One of the ways I like using crossovers is to show parallels between characters and narrative arcs. People like to toss out the Fullmetal Alchemist and Stormlight crossover quite a bit. How would the Kholin brothers work if they were in Ed and Al's situation? Or what if it was Kaladin and Tien? In my experience with writing fanfiction, I try to ask interesting questions about the characters and stories that I love and then answer them in interesting ways. 

 

In some ways it's easier to write. Knowing the world and knowing the characters means that you can simply step in and start to play around with things without so much of the setup. It sometimes clears the air to get down to the deep, interesting aspects. I mentioned to a friend that while I was in two RP campaigns and one was much easier to write for than the other. One was a D&D story set in an unfamilliar kind of setting. I found myself floundering trying to create all of this context and play a character in a world that I didn't fully understand. The other campaign was The Sydney Scroungers, a FATE Core campaign set in the Pacific Rim universe. The SS group was able to hit the ground running because we knew what was going on. Oh, we're playing a Firefly-like smuggling group in the Sydney area a few years before the movie takes place? Awesome. We know the kinds of things we can do and what tools we have to work with and we can just go with it. 

 

I could look at that setting and think about "What would be interesting? What about a piloting cadet who's not Drift compatible? What if she was a programmer who created an AI to be her Drift partner? What if she's in the underworld because she hijacked a Jaeger to test it and is on the run, trying not to get caught?" And there you've got the base concept for Sylvie Mansen. Other players have characters who have been caught up in Kaiju attacks (Scissure in Sydney and Onibaba in Tokyo) and are still dealing with the fallout of those events in their lives. We took a concept with cool worldbuilding and we got to build onto it from there. 

 

So yes, you can learn a lot from fanfiction that helps original writing -- I'll say that instant feedback in particular is wonderful. Having a ready-made audience, people who already care about the characters you're writing and will talk to you about what you're doing with them is a great way to improve skills and boost confidence. But, there's a lot to fanfiction that is unique to it, and it's a worthwhile endeavor of its own right.

[Gabriele she/her]

Hey, you can't let us cliffhang under the bells of Kharbrand.

 

I suppose when GRR Martin warned people off fanfic as start to a writing career, writing purely for fun didn't occur to him. He makes a living off it, after all, and he started with those original little tales he sold for a few cent to friends as kid, though he also has always been an avid fan of superhero stuff and such and wrote to the makers of these comics when he liked or didn't like something. I think he even got letters published in fan magazines. So he certainly understands fandom, but he also always had his head full of his own plotbunnies and proabably never thought about writing fanfiction.

 

My first stories - written and sometimes just told to friends - would qualify as fanfic, but at some point I got my own ideas. I can't even say when it happened. Probably with some What If involving not a book- but a historical character. When I started writing more regularly, I wrote both fanfics and original fics side by side and eventually stopped with the fanfiction because I have only that much time and so many ideas... And the original ones do fulfill my creative urges better these days. Making up your own characters is a lot of fun, even with the limitations of a historical context.

 

I think that if you (general you) as writer want to expand to original fiction, those plotbunnies or creationspren or whatever, will find you at some point and fanfiction won't hurt that. And if you don't get the urge to move beyond your favourite fandoms there's nothing wrong with that, either. 

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Haha, I tend to be the opposite. I mean, I've got plenty of OCs and original ideas, and I do write for them (I just put away a 6,000 word short story in one of my original worlds that was very satisfying to finish.) I live for reactions though, and knowing that there's people out here who are going to love seeing these things. Very often I write things FOR other people because I know what my friends like and I know what they'll enjoy seeing. 

 

That's actually what's helped with my original writing, in that I have some people who are actually really excited about my original characters and the stories about them, so I get inspired to write those so that I can share them privately with my little reading group!

 

...dang I really need to get back to work on the actual novel of Called Forth one of these days though, ha. Also it needs a better title. Struggles of a writer, right?

[Gabriele she/her]

I know about titles. Kings and Rebels isn't the best one, either.

 

I understand the instant feedback thing. I had a special blog for some time where I posted snippets from my NiPs, but in the end I changed and edited so much that those snips were not the same after a time. Yes, working without an outline and out of order has its setbacks, but it works for GRRM and that's my excuse. Actually, I've tried outlines but that approach doesn't work for me.

 

And short stories. Well, it's a long time I got a short story plotbunny that did not cheat on me. These days when I let one of the fluffy cuties in, it will bring its family and breed three generations and withitn a week I'll end up with a trilogy. I really try to stick to the things I'm working on right now, that's more than enough for the next 15 years or so. Especially with my writing speed.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

(Oh also I feel really terrible but you mentioned the "cliffhanger" at the end of Beneath the Bells)

 

Heh. Um. Well, there probably won't be a sequel to that one because it wasn't supposed to ncessarily be cliff hanger-y. 

I'm pretty sure Kaladin dies in that AU. Whoops. I'm the worst. I know.

[Gabriele she/her]

(Oh also I feel really terrible but you mentioned the "cliffhanger" at the end of Beneath the Bells)

 

Heh. Um. Well, there probably won't be a sequel to that one because it wasn't supposed to ncessarily be cliff hanger-y. 

I'm pretty sure Kaladin dies in that AU. Whoops. I'm the worst. I know.

 

Yes, you are.

 

That would have quite an impact on the story. Kaladin is important as KR, after all.

[Kogiopsis she/her]

Oooh, I like this topic!

 

I will say that for starters, Feather covered a lot of the things I think are inherently valuable about fanfic - character exploration, audience response, etc etc.  There are a couple of other things I think are worth adding - 

 

1.  I think it was Naomi Novik who mentioned this in what, IIRC, was a pre-NaNo pep talk email, but fic allows writers to pick and choose what aspects of their writing they want to focus on.  If what you want to do is explore a setting, you don't necessarily have to worry about creating characters; if what you want to do is practice writing coherent plots, your stage is already set and populated.  Most often in my experience, fanfic challenges the writer's ability to keep characters internally consistent, and dedicated writers will put a lot of effort into keeping their portrayals in line with the text.  That's a skill that's critical to original writing, and which it can be difficult to focus on when you're juggling the other requirements involved in telling your own story.  For many people it's best to hone it first practicing on fic, and then move on to apply the skills thus learned.

(this also applies to things like editing your own work, receiving critique from others, and keeping to a consistent writing schedule, especially for multi-chapter works.)

 

2.  Fanfiction is so very, very often more than just fanfic.  On an individual level, it's often incredibly important to individual people - a lot of the fic writers I follow have talked about getting messages from people telling them that their work made a difference, and I've gotten a couple of those myself.  (I also write a lot of short fic for friends who are having bad days, and it does a lot to cheer them up.)  On a larger level, fanfic is inherently a transformative work, and because of that you get things like Paris Burning which creates an entire collaborative universe for itself, or Fifty Years in the Virtuous City which both shines a spotlight on an older story and re-imagines the concept in a distinctly modern way.

 

3.  A great deal of fanfic involves people writing about people like them in stories they love that don't represent them.  It can be hard, for instance, for a lot of people to read/watch LOTR and note the distinctly tiny number of female characters in the cast and/or the overwhelming homogenous whiteness of the protagonists; it can leave the audience feeling like they don't exist in a world where this kind of epic story takes place.  Fanwork, then, can fill that void - either by expanding the roles of existing characters, changing their traits somewhat, or adding in additional characters.  It gives fans who are often marginalized in their daily lives and in media a chance to see themselves in settings/roles from which they were previously left absent.

 

I mean, I'm not going to argue that fanfic as a concept is without flaws - I do think that Pulled To Publish novels-nee-fic are a problem on several levels - but I think its good vastly outweighs the bad.  As for questions of quality, well, teenagers have to get their bad writing out somewhere and if it's a community where they might be able to find good critical feedback and encouragement, all the better. Besides, that's what fic rec systems are for.  (Homestuck fandom has an entire blog for recs, as no doubt do others; it makes sorting through the chaff that much easier.)

 

As for authors being against it - that's their prerogative, I suppose, though realistically speaking there's nothing they can do to stop people actually writing fic.  (They can, in some cases, stop them from distributing it - evidence Anne McCaffrey actually getting some Pern RP boards shut down back in the day.  But the stuff that's handwritten in someone's notebook ain't going anywhere.)  I personally think hard-and-fast 'NO FIC' rules are a bit, well... selfish, I guess; I don't care for the way they chastise readers for exploring ideas, especially when it's basically an expanded thought exercise and does no harm.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

I think the whole 'does fanfic help people develop writing skills?' misses the point of fanfiction entirely. It's like if you saw a kid playing with action figures and snatched the action-figure out of their hands, and then yelled at them about how 'Playing with action figures doesn't teach you sculpture!' Of course it doesn't- the playing is its own purpose, not an intermediary towards some other goal.

 

Let people play with the things they want, and when they ask to borrow the toys you designed don't refuse them. Writing should be played with like action-figures, meant for human interaction, not locked away like ancient greek statues, made for a look-don't-touch mentality.

 

It's always good to encourage creativity, in my opinion. The fact that it's based on someone else's work doesn't mean it can't be creative. The only problem with fanfiction is that it usually isn't creative. The reason so much fanfiction is below par is because the writers either don't care for what they're writing, or they set it in such a way that it results in a completely different world which isn't connected to the original work in anything other than character name - This is obvious with the apparent love of high school fanfiction, since most fanfiction authors are (American) high school students. Anything says that, you know it's going to be poor.

 

[….]

 

You get different opinions of course depending on who you ask. If I was an author, I would be pleased that people like my universe enough to write their own little bits. In a way, I see it like game modding, which I am also a great fan of. You mentioned George RR Martin, and other authors - I know at least that there's a part in Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next series (in which all literature exists in its own, separate world) where the protagonist meets badly made caricatures of herself from the land of fanfiction, and the author really makes in plain and clear that he hates it passionately.

 

 

I would also add that an American high school student probably doesn't have the life experience to create a convincing, well-rounded character out of whole cloth. I wrote my first fanfics when I was fourteen, using wholly original characters of my own creation. They were complete and utter Mary Sues. The minute I wised up, I went back and deleted those stories and prayed no one I knew had read them. 

 

What taught me more about characterization was, ironically, using someone else's characters in new and unexpected ways. When I finished the Harry Potter series, I wrote quite a few fanfics changing one thing or another. Some of them were serious. Most were intentionally silly. A few were downright dreadful. But using those characters in my own stories taught me what characterization is, what makes a character compelling, and how to keep a character in character. Those lessons helped me develop characters of my own. Her world building, too, taught me much about how worlds are built and what makes them convincing to the reader. 

 

I know a number of authors are opposed to fan fiction of their work. While I understand and respect them for it, it still makes me sad. J.K. Rowling gave aspiring and budding writers a gift: a fully realized world with characters just real enough to make us want more. She was kind enough to let us play with it, knowing some writers would make a mess. 

Edited April 27, 2014 by TwiLyghtSansSparkles

[Swimmingly he/him]

I've never written any fan fiction myself, partially because of the stigma attached to it. However, seeing the points on the thread here, I think it might be something to consider; my characters, to put it plainly, suck. I don't know their personalities well, and I'm afraid of making them Mary Sues. I don't know how to express a character's flaws properly either, which is unfortunate - and I'm afraid of making the flaws they do have too mundane.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Swimmingly, I'd encourage it, even if you just try it out. Trying to write someone else's characters can really help you focus in on how characters should be written and it could help you improve quite a bit. As for creating your own characters, I'd say that something I've learned is that backstory is key. I write my characters better when I know where they've come from and what they've been through. On the character flaw front, a few things to keep in mind are: why does this character have this flaw, how does it actually hinder them, and in what way can they learn to overcome it?

 

I'll use Sylvie as an example, because she's probably the character of mine that I've fleshed out the most and she's the one whose flaws I like the best. See, I kinda took a leaf out of the FATE Core book, which has players assign "aspects" to their characters, which are meant to be used for or against them in certain situations of gameplay. The best flaws are things which are not always bad, just bad in certain situations. In other situations they might be strengths! And that makes them interesting.

 

So, I mentioned Sylvie above, she's from The Sydney Scroungers story (which can be read online if anyone's interested.) See, she grew up alone mostly. Raised by an aunt that she wasn't close to at all and she didn't really have any friends. So, she's a person who doesn't have a lot of connections to other people. There's upsides to this: she's very determined and self-sufficient. She's accepted the fact that most other people don't like her and has learned to be content on her own. When she has a problem she tries to solve it herself rather than looking for someone else to do it. She believes she knows how her world works and she knows what she's supposed to do in it. While she doesn't tend to get attached to other people, she also doesn't get hurt by them. In fact, one of the other characters, Miranda, has some jealousy for the way that Sylvie doesn't feel the need to get involved in things, because Miranda keeps getting very attached to other people who then hurt or leave her. Sylvie's disassociation seems like it's an easier way to live from Miranda's point of view.

 

However, while those are mostly good things, obviously there's downsides as well to this! Sylvie's pretty selfish, and at sometimes goes all the way to narcissistic. She's not much of a team player. Not intentionally, just, she defaults to looking out for herself and her own interests and assumes that other people will do the same. Her determination's a good thing when she's right, but when she's wrong about something, it's nearly impossible to make her see any kind of reason other than her own. She's naturally unempathetic, which makes her Drift incompatible with most people (in the Pacific Rim universe, that is) and means that she doesn't naturally have very sympathetic reactions to the troubles of other people.

 

So, two sides of the same coin. Good in some ways, bad in others, and I'm using the story to try to help her overcome some of her issues. Writing Scroungers has been an excellent characterization exercise for me, and it's helping me see the best way for me to write characters.

[Delightful]

I'm not much of a fanfic person - I've only ever written one fairly recently, which I wrote with a friend purely for the fun of it, and I don't read much of it either, but I find this whole discussion really interesting.

It actually reminds me to an extent of alternate histories, in particular a branch called counter-factual history, which explores questions like 'what if Hitler was successfully assassinated? What would have happened?" in order to look at other possible scenarios that could have been, due to events and information that was forgotten due to what did happen. Like fanfic, it forces a writer to think about the importance of an (historical) character, or the significance of an event, and how that would have been effected by a different outcome/setting etc.
And like fanfic, there's debate about how worthwhile it is.

 

Although that applies to serious fanfic writers, which I presume is like what Feather writes?. I'm getting the impression there are two kinds of fanfic writers here, those who do it because it's a good way to practice and get feedback, and those who do it just for fun. Those who do it for the practice, I would say it's fine as long as they are aware that other fics may not be brilliant quality, and as long as they;re not making money off it. Those doing it just for fun, should then just have fun with it.

 

 

 

Besides Wheel of Time, though, there are published novels which could be considered fan fiction. Fifty Shades of Grey began life as a Twilight fan fiction, and I believe I read somewhere that Mortal Instruments has a connection to the. Harry Potter community in some way. And what are the various Sherlock Holmes pastiches, if not commercially printed fanon?

 

I honestly never considered this before, and it's a good question. Maybe if it's too far removed from canon to be canon, or written by an amatuer, then it's labelled fanfic, but if it's by a professional then it gets called an adaptation? Brandon finished the Wheel of Time is definitely an unusual situation and I'm really not sure what I would call that.

As I said, I'm not exactly an expert on any of this, I just find it interesting, so I really hope I haven't stepped on anyone's toes here. Let me know if I have and I'll rethink/rephrase what I've said.

 

Edit: Oh, and Feather? I just read Beneath the Bells, and....I would hate you for the ending but I like it too much. It's like a Rosharan horror story! *Love* your concept/characterisation of Kaladin.

though I was kind of expecting Szeth to walk in. Oh well.

.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Delightful

[FeatherWriter she/her]

*cackles madly* Well if there's one thing that I'm grateful to this thread to, it's that more people are reading "Beneath the Bells". I've gotta earn my keep as Fandom Monster somehow, right? It's probably still the fic I'm proudest of. Well, Cosmere fanfic at least. I've got a long-form MCU fanfic that's actually probably my actual favorite. But "Beneath the Bells of Kharbranth" is definitely up there in my favorites.

 

Your talk about historical fiction is an apt one. I mean, the idea of taking stories which already exist and changing them into something new is not a new idea, nor is it one which is restricted to fanfiction alone. You see it in works which are no longer copyright protected all the time. Open source stories, plays, and ideas are there for anyone to modify and make into something new.

 

Think of how many Shakespearean plays you've seen set in modern day or some other kind of time period. Or works that reimagine classic works, such as Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. Fanfiction does the same thing, just with works which are new and current. Since those works are still under copyright however, fanfic can't be sold (unless some major things get changed).

 

But yeah, the idea of an author having the exclusive rights to their worlds, characters, and stories is a rather new one, and that audiences and readers can't contribute to the imagining of this world at all is somewhat silly in my opinion. I respect the rights of creators as the only ones to make money off of their ideas, and of course the original creator has more say in what is going to be the original and final canon, but stories have a long history fo being fluid and evolving things, where each teller brings something new and wonderful to them.