Can a nonSeeker differentiate between being Soothed and being Rioted?

[Juanaton]

Yep, fit my whole question into the title. Note: by Seeker I am not specifying allomancy, but rather the underlying ability. Obviously Vin, Marsh, et al can tell the difference thanks to the ability to sense allomantic pulses and if another investiture granted a similar ability that would create (for the purposes of this question) a seeker.

[King Cole]

Only if it was unsubtle and obvious. A good rioter/soother would do it with no trace

[Juanaton]

17 minutes ago, King Cole said:

Only if it was unsubtle and obvious. A good rioter/soother would do it with no trace

Nope, not what I am asking.

Marasi isn’t a Seeker, but she can tell, at least some times, when her feelings are being allomantically influenced. In such a situation, can she tell if the influence is a Riot rather than a Soothing or vice versa?

[King Cole]

13 minutes ago, Juanaton said:

Nope, not what I am asking.

Marasi isn’t a Seeker, but she can tell, at least some times, when her feelings are being allomantically influenced. In such a situation, can she tell if the influence is a Riot rather than a Soothing or vice versa?

By focusing if you start to feel really strongly about one emotion, or feeling only that emotion cause the others are soothed away

[Juanaton]

8 minutes ago, King Cole said:

By focusing if you start to feel really strongly about one emotion, or feeling only that emotion cause the others are soothed away

But that’s my point...Breeze makes people feel brave, not by increasing their bravery, but by damping everything else so bravery is the thing they feel most strongly. Allriane achieves the same thing by actually increasing their feeling of bravery. In both cases it’s a relative difference that makes the person feel brave. If your base emotional level is 10, can you tell the difference between brave = 10, everything else = 5 and brave = 20, everything else = 10?

[King Cole]

11 minutes ago, Juanaton said:

But that’s my point...Breeze makes people feel brave, not by increasing their bravery, but by damping everything else so bravery is the thing they feel most strongly. Allriane achieves the same thing by actually increasing their feeling of bravery. In both cases it’s a relative difference that makes the person feel brave. If your base emotional level is 10, can you tell the difference between brave = 10, everything else = 5 and brave = 20, everything else = 10?

It's just recognizing your emotions. I could if it wasn't extremely subtle

[goody153]

I think the best rioter/soother can make a person not even notice if they are soothed or rioted.

Like in a situation where the emotion of anger is highlighted can you really tell whether you all your other feelings are numbed down and only anger is left or if only your anger is being inflamed to the point that it's only one you notice.

Essentially if you can recognize if you are being soothed or rioted then the allomancer doing it to you isn't good enough or doesn't understand how your emotions are working at that moment.

Edited August 14, 2018 by goody153

[Quantus]

It's certainly possible.  There's nothing supernatural about the defense though, it would basically just be a contest of their magical manipulation skills versus your mundane emotional self-awareness. 

Now if are asking whether any other magics could detect it and tell the difference, I can think of a few possibilities.  White Sand operates as a reasonable Investiture detector, so it should indicate that an effect is active, though Im not sure how detailed it can be about the type or source. The Heightening offer an awful lot of sensory enhancement but I dont think it would translate to allomantic pulses. Who knows what's possible with the Door or the unseen Surges. 

[Weltall]

7 hours ago, Quantus said:

Now if are asking whether any other magics could detect it and tell the difference, I can think of a few possibilities.  White Sand operates as a reasonable Investiture detector, so it should indicate that an effect is active, though Im not sure how detailed it can be about the type or source.

Any kinetic Investiture will turn the sand white so it doesn't seem like it could detect anything that subtle. The presence of and general direction of the Investiture seems to be its limit, which is still pretty useful.

A-Bronze can of course tell the difference and Brandon has RAFO'd whether a listener/singer could 'hear' the pulses the way they hear the Rhythms on Roshar so it's a potential avenue he hasn't denied at least. I wouldn't be surprised if there's an Aviar that could do something similar.

[+Extesian]

2 hours ago, Weltall said:

Any kinetic Investiture will turn the sand white so it doesn't seem like it could detect anything that subtle. The presence of and general direction of the Investiture seems to be its limit, which is still pretty useful.

A-Bronze can of course tell the difference and Brandon has RAFO'd whether a listener/singer could 'hear' the pulses the way they hear the Rhythms on Roshar so it's a potential avenue he hasn't denied at least. I wouldn't be surprised if there's an Aviar that could do something similar.

Actually i think from this that there's a lower limit to what it will pick up. And shallan's lightweaving into Veil was not sufficient. 

Quote

WinespringBrother [PENDING REVIEW]

When Veil went to Mraize's lair, she saw a vial of white sand. Was there a reason that it didn't turn black?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes

WinespringBrother [PENDING REVIEW]

Can you tell me that reason?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

So, sand will turn white in the presence of certain kinetic usage of Investiture. 

WinespringBrother [PENDING REVIEW]

Okay, so that was what Veil was doing?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Depends on how loud the Investiture is, that sand... that sand just absorbed some of the Stormlight. I'll just be be clear with you, yeah. It was not the stuff that Veil was doing. 

source

It may have picked up her turning into Veil but not maintaining the illusion. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Extesian