The Harlem Worldhoppers he/him Posted June 30, 2018 Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=Marsh#4142 I came across this WoB that gained my curiosity Quote zas678 Why on earth does Marsh have a Feruchemical atium spike? You've said that Ironeyes is in fact Marsh. Did Ruin spike someone for him? Or did Sazed grant him the power? Brandon Sanderson Dead inquisitors Vin killed. Some were granted the spike for reasons I haven't spoken of yet. #inquisitors #marsh Sources: Reddit I believe that these 'reasons I haven't spoken of yet' refer to Ruin's plan following the destruction of Scadrial. Ruin would have been free from the Scadrial system, intent on causing more destruction. If Ruin were to attack a shardworld he would likely reach a stalemate, similar to the current situation in Mistborn 2 involving Harmony and the red haze (Autonomy?). In order to conquer a world, Ruin would need to deploy ground forces just like the shard currently attacking Scadrial is doing. The inquisitors are Ruin's hands and would make the perfect tools for conquering world and bringing destruction in their wake. The timeframe involved in moving from world to world destroying as you go is far longer than an Inquisitors lifespan. The inquisitors age normally and can die of old age.... Unless they are using a feruchemical Atium spike. Ruin could supply the Inquisitors with Atium which they could use to attain immortality through compounding. I know that this is hardly relevant now but I still found it fun imagining events in a parallel universe where Ruin had won. Any thoughts? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storyspren Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 I like the thought. Personally I switch between two views: 1) thinking the lord ruler himself had some post-deathe plans involving this. It seems to have happened post lord ruler death but not sure if these spikes were all placed post well of ascension or not. 2) ruin wanted to was just leveling up minions. Like you do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Harlem Worldhoppers he/him Posted July 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Storyspren said: I like the thought. Personally I switch between two views: 1) thinking the lord ruler himself had some post-deathe plans involving this. It seems to have happened post lord ruler death but not sure if these spikes were all placed post well of ascension or not. 2) ruin wanted to was just leveling up minions. Like you do. Point 2 definitely makes sense. Compounding Feruchemical atium would allow you to live forever which is overpowered for obvious reasons. That begs the question of why Ruin would want his Inquisitors to live longer than normal humans; my answer being his plan to destroy all life in the Cosmere would take a long time and his Inquisitors would have to endure it. As for point 1, I think those spikes were made post Lord Ruler's death from the keepers in the Synod. Prior to this, the Inquisitors were said to live normal lifespans so we know they didn't have the spikes back then. It is also highly unlikely that the spikes had been created during The Lord Ruler's lifetime as hemallurgic spikes lose potency over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatikis he/him Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said: Compounding Feruchemical atium would allow you to live forever which is overpowered for obvious reasons. Actually compounding atium doesn't allow you to live forever. At least not how it was being done by TLR. It can keep you alive a very long time. Age is weird and is based on your connection. So essentially The Lord Ruler's connections kept trying to snap him back to his correct age. It is possible that Ruin would use a combination of of storing connection and atium to more efficiently reverse aging. Ruin's minions wouldn't need connection. Edited July 1, 2018 by Fatikis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Harlem Worldhoppers he/him Posted July 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 39 minutes ago, Fatikis said: Actually compounding atium doesn't allow you to live forever. At least not how it was being done by TLR. It can keep you alive a very long time. Age is weird and is based on your connection. So essentially The Lord Ruler's connections kept trying to snap him back to his correct age. It is possible that Ruin would use a combination of of storing connection and atium to more efficiently reverse aging. Ruin's minions wouldn't need connection. My bad. Thanks for clearing it up. Even so, compounding Atium would allow you to live well beyond a normal human lifespan so a feruchemical Atium spike would still serve a valuable purpose. On a related note, I think Kelsier would truly be capable of living forever due to the strange circumstances surrounding his return. The Lord Ruler's soul knew it was 1000 years old and resisted the effects of compounding Atium while Kelsier died in his mid thirties and had his soul stapled onto a body. Kelsier's soul probably permanently identifies itself as thirty something years old as this is how old Kelsier was when his string was cut so to speak. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Quote I know that this is hardly relevant now but I still found it fun imagining events in a parallel universe where Ruin had won. Any thoughts? Ah, but what if a returned Ruin WAS the super-evil at the end of the entire Cosmere storyline? Let's say Odium survives and rips Harmony apart (or that Rayse dies, but the Shard of Odium is not Splintered/etc.). Zam, Ruin's back! Then someone fuses Odium and Ruin. (Like... Kelsier...?!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Investor Posted July 2, 2018 Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 23 hours ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said: My bad. Thanks for clearing it up. Even so, compounding Atium would allow you to live well beyond a normal human lifespan so a feruchemical Atium spike would still serve a valuable purpose. To clarify, Atium compounding works by tapping youth to return to your desired age. But the effect is temporary, and your soul remembers your real age. Once you stop tapping, you revert back to your correct age. The older you get, the more youth you have to tap. The more youth you have to tap, the more atium you have to be burning. That last part is what would kill you, eventually you reach a point where you would quickly burn though your atium reserves. The Lord Ruler would have run out of atium at some point, burning more then what the pits could produce. But the method is still viable for at least a thousand years and probably more. But if Ruin can form connections similar to Honor and his heralds, then Ruin could have supplied infinite amounts of Atium to his inquisitors. So either way, keeping his inquisitors alive for attacking other planets is a valid theory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted July 2, 2018 Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 44 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said: To clarify, Atium compounding works by tapping youth to return to your desired age. But the effect is temporary, and your soul remembers your real age. Once you stop tapping, you revert back to your correct age. The older you get, the more youth you have to tap. The more youth you have to tap, the more atium you have to be burning. That last part is what would kill you, eventually you reach a point where you would quickly burn though your atium reserves. The Lord Ruler would have run out of atium at some point, burning more then what the pits could produce. But the method is still viable for at least a thousand years and probably more. But if Ruin can form connections similar to Honor and his heralds, then Ruin could have supplied infinite amounts of Atium to his inquisitors. So either way, keeping his inquisitors alive for attacking other planets is a valid theory. All of this is true, but I also think the "tenfold" metaphor has made us underestimate just how much power compounding gives to store. Quote Kirrin Marsh? The book doesn't mention him after he fights with Elend. Brandon Sanderson Marsh is alive. I changed this from when I talked to [Peter]. I realized some things about his use of Allomancy that would allow him to survive. Actually, he is immortal. He can pull off the same Allomancy/Feruchemy trick that the Lord Ruler did. (And he knows it too, since he was there when Sazed explained how it was done in Book One.) He's actually the only living person who actually knows this trick for certain. (Though there's a chance that Spook, Ham and Breeze heard about it from Vin and the others.) So yes, if there were another series, Marsh would make an appearance. Douglas I thought that trick required atium and involved burning the atium. With all the atium gone and Sazed not making any more, it would therefore not be possible even for a full mistborn/feruchemist. Am I wrong, is Sazed providing atium specifically for Marsh to allow a friend and valuable servant to survive, or what? Brandon Sanderson Marsh has the bag of Atium that KanPaar sent to be sold, as well as several nuggets in his stomach. So, I guess 'immortal' is the wrong phrase. He's got the only remaining atium in the world and can keep himself around for a long, long while—but he WILL eventually run out. Unless Sazed does something. Footnote: Brandon had earlier told Peter that in his mind, Marsh was dead having been "burned out by the sun"source A singe pouch and a few nuggets is enough atium to keep him around for centuries and not be expended... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Investor Posted July 2, 2018 Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 @Calderis 1000 years was a safe estimate based on the Lord Ruler's age. But I agree, the actual number of years the Lord Ruler could reliably reach would be in the thousands, maybe tens of thousands, possibly quite a bit further. And supply of burnable atium probably wouldn't even be his big issue. The big things he would have to deal with would be creating atium metalminds large enough to hold the charges(maybe, the rules on attribute density inside of metalsminds seems kinda fuzzy), and how much time he would have to spend on storing age. At 1000 years he still appeared to have to take some time ever 3 days to store age. I'm now picturing the Lord Ruler in a suit of armor made of Atium, immortality achieved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Harlem Worldhoppers he/him Posted July 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Wandering Investor said: The more youth you have to tap, the more atium you have to be burning 1 hour ago, Wandering Investor said: But if Ruin can form connections similar to Honor and his heralds, then Ruin could have supplied infinite amounts of Atium to his inquisitors. So either way, keeping his inquisitors alive for attacking other planets is a valid theory. This is exactly what I was thinking. It doesn't matter how inefficient the process of compounding Atium becomes because it's such a small drop in the bucket when looking at the power level of a shard. 17 minutes ago, Calderis said: A singe pouch and a few nuggets is enough atium to keep him around for centuries and not be expended.. Yeah, the kind of timeframe in which the Atium compounding process would become so inefficient that the costs are greater than the benefits (for Ruin) is likely after the heat death of the Universe. Compounding a moderate amount of Atium is incredibly potent as @Calderis pointed out above. Now imagine the possibilities with an endless supply of Atium... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Harlem Worldhoppers he/him Posted July 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said: The big things he would have to deal with would be creating atium metalminds large enough to hold the charges(maybe, the rules on attribute density inside of metalsminds seems kinda fuzzy), and how much time he would have to spend on storing age Good point, I forgot about the artificial limit of metalmind capacity based on its size. I wonder if some of the issues you listed above could be circumvented by burning the Atium metalminds with duralumin. The rate at which you could compound would increase exponentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted July 2, 2018 Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said: Good point, I forgot about the artificial limit of metalmind capacity based on its size. I wonder if some of the issues you listed above could be circumvented by burning the Atium metalminds with duralumin. The rate at which you could compound would increase exponentially. I don't think so. Duralumin accelerates the burn rate so that you get all of the power of the metal at once. I don't think it actually gives you more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Investor Posted July 2, 2018 Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 1 minute ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said: Good point, I forgot about the artificial limit of metalmind capacity based on its size. I wonder if some of the issues you listed above could be circumvented by burning the Atium metalminds with duralumin. The rate at which you could compound would increase exponentially. That would actually (probably) make the compounding slower. It would be more effective to store youth, burn a little for alot of youth, store that, then burn more for even more youth. In the case of duralumin, it would burn the entire metal, so you'd miss out on the middle steps that would produce greater and greater amounts of youth. Short term gain, but you'd loose out in the long run with less efficient compounding. Unless you filled the nugget up to the max it could hold, then you could just burn it all at once since you can't put anymore in there anyways. Plus, channeling that massive spike of youth into a metalmind might be difficult mentally. (sidenote: question Brandon about tapping more youth than you have age, would it send you to being a baby or even earlier?). I think the easiest way to circumvent the mentioned problems would be larger metalminds. You'd still run into issues eventually, but its more of a theory problem for tomorrow(thousands of years tomorrow) than a realistic one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Harlem Worldhoppers he/him Posted July 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Calderis said: I don't think so. Duralumin accelerates the burn rate so that you get all of the power of the metal at once. I don't think it actually gives you more. Yeah, I agree. I was thinking more that the higher burn rate enabled by duralumin combined with the constant Atium supply would allow continuous near instantaneous compounding as without duralumin the compounding will occur at a fixed burn rate which will limit the ability to store age in the long run 55 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said: sidenote: question Brandon about tapping more youth than you have age, would it send you to being a baby or even earlier? I'm pretty sure Brandon has said that it is possible to revert to a foetal stage by over tapping Atium metalminds. I'll have to try and find the WoB... Edit: Found a relevant WoB Questioner What happens if you burn duralumin while Compounding? Brandon Sanderson Duralumin while Compounding. So, what duralumin does is it burns out of all of your metal in one burst. So it doesn't necessarily gain you power, it makes it all happen at the same time. The same thing would happen. Questioner Could you turn into a baby? Brandon Sanderson Oh, you could totally turn into a baby. That is within the power of using that, doing <health wrong>, yeah you could totally... You'd be really dangerous. Questioner But it wouldn't really do much? Brandon Sanderson Oh it would have explosive... it does things really fast. That's what it does. Yes you could achieve very powerful sudden effects through that. It'd be scary. Controlling it can be dangerous, regardless of which metal you use. Edited July 2, 2018 by The Harlem Worldhoppers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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