Radiant_thoughts Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 Now that he is reborn as one of Nalan's Skybreakers, he is told he can go home and have vengence for being unfairly made truthless. My question is since book three is Szeth's do u all think he will go to Shinovar first, or will he help Darkness hunt radiants. Now that Taln and the everstorm have hit do the skybreakers stop trying to prevent the desolation and start helping the radiants fight for survival. A sidebar to that could darkness hunting the future radiants have to do with some sort of agreement forbidding the reforming of the KR. IE the recreance? Anyway back to Szeth, do u think he'll go after past "employers", namely King T, and the Parshendi?
Levian Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Personally, I'm not convinced that he is actually a Skybreaker despite what is said. He has no spren that he's bonded with and I don't think even a Herald can just say "There, you're a surgebinder now" and grant powers. Unless..... OOOHH!!! Maybe, just maybe... Since it's been confirmed by Brandon that Nightblood is exactly the same as a shardblade, maybe it will be his spren! It has a consciousness and can speak directly into his mind like other bonded spren, so maybe in this world he will be able to de-materialize Nightblood and re-form it at will as well. Anyways, I'm thinking he'll go directly to Shinovar after chatting with Darkness for a while. He'll most definitely try to go after King T at some point. He was so angry at the people he was killing for not being strong enough to defeat him, but now he has the capability of going after the person directly responsible for him killing everybody.
Argent he/him Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Oh, yea, there will definitely some angry chats. But I don't think you need to be a Surgebinder to join the modern version of the Skybreakers - it looks like they are more of an organization with the same goals and beliefs, not so much an actual Orden.
thejopen27 he/him Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 I think that for Szeth to attract a Highspren he will need to stop listening to Nalan and do what is truly just. Do the stone shamans deserve to die for making a mistake? Szeth is just as responsible for his murders as the people who hired him, he could have stopped whenever he wanted. 1
FlatLine Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Unless..... OOOHH!!! Maybe, just maybe... Since it's been confirmed by Brandon that Nightblood is exactly the same as a shardblade, maybe it will be his spren! It has a consciousness and can speak directly into his mind like other bonded spren, so maybe in this world he will be able to de-materialize Nightblood and re-form it at will as well. That's what I'm thinking, but I don't know if he'll get surge binding powers, maybe void binding powers??? His powers will be really unique and Nightblood will grant them. It also talks to his mind so I think it will replicate a spren.
Levian Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I think that for Szeth to attract a Highspren he will need to stop listening to Nalan and do what is truly just. Do the stone shamans deserve to die for making a mistake? Szeth is just as responsible for his murders as the people who hired him, he could have stopped whenever he wanted. That's a pretty big question. Will he become part of the non-surgebinding Skybreakers or will be become an actual Skybreaker? Depending on which, that will severely change his actions. I doubt that the stone shamans made him truthless with the knowledge that surgebinders were around, and with the intent purpose of making him into a murder machine (then again we have no idea of what happened with that situation yet). If he becomes an actual KR Skybreaker he will no doubt go after King T. If he just joins Nalan he will undoubtedly go after the stone shamans (which seems the likely course) hoping to get retribution against them for his actions, hoping to absolve himself of the blame and guilt. I have a strong suspicion that like many of the KR, he will struggle with the values of his order before actually becoming a KR, like Kaladin, Shallan and Dalinar. He will use justice as an excuse to get revenge and to try to absolve himself, only to come to terms with what has happened and swear to uphold the law, possibly feeling it is his only way to truly pay for what he has done. Edited March 23, 2014 by Levian 1
Wolven he/him Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 True, but if Szeth had stopped killing people and disobeyed his Masters, it can be said that he would not have attracted Nalan in the first place. The fact that Szeth kept to his code for so long was what made him so attractive to Nalan.
Magnanimous Taz Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 @Wolven That's true but to truly become a skybreaker, szeth will need to attract a high spren and we don't know what the qualifications for that are.
skinnyasatwig Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 So I have not read all of warbreaker, but I have read the sample ebook and had my cousin discuss it with me. If his memory is correct then I believe that Szeth is like the resurrected "Gods" in worbreaker that live off of breaths. Also, vashers sword, dose it not feed function through the use of breaths? Sorry if my info is inaccurate I'll read warbreaker this week and repos a refined theory later, I just had to throw this idea out there. Cause if he is a warbreaker "God" what will this mean for the story?
Levian Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) So I have not read all of warbreaker, but I have read the sample ebook and had my cousin discuss it with me. If his memory is correct then I believe that Szeth is like the resurrected "Gods" in worbreaker that live off of breaths. Also, vashers sword, dose it not feed function through the use of breaths? Sorry if my info is inaccurate I'll read warbreaker this week and repos a refined theory later, I just had to throw this idea out there. Cause if he is a warbreaker "God" what will this mean for the story? Just possessing Nightblood wouldn't make Szeth one of the Gods from Warbreaker. I'm pretty sure the Shard of that world somehow chooses certain people when they die to come back, and that is how they gain their status. They really aren't TOO much different than an average person with a lot of breaths, except for the fact that their one godly breath equals a couple hundred breaths, granting what ever heightening. It's been a while lol. Think of Nightblood like a Fabrial. It consumes the Breaths a person is holding - but only when fully unsheathed - in a similar way that the Fabrials consume Stormlight a Gem is holding. I expect that being on Roshar it will feed directly off Breaths instead, but I don't think it can use the Stormlight inside gems. I'm almost betting that just having Nightblood will give Szeth the ability to breath in Stormlight again, and the sword will consume it that way. Edited March 23, 2014 by Levian
Mistdork she/her Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Unless..... OOOHH!!! Maybe, just maybe... Since it's been confirmed by Brandon that Nightblood is exactly the same as a shardblade, maybe it will be his spren! It has a consciousness and can speak directly into his mind like other bonded spren, so maybe in this world he will be able to de-materialize Nightblood and re-form it at will as well. I guess considering NB's command is "destroy evil" he could have his own Spren thanks to Cultivation...But I don't know if it'd be bindable, though it would certainly be different thanks to NB being an awakened blade who is basically an Endowment-shard (in a sense). I can see him being up to some weird crap in the next book. That's what I'm thinking, but I don't know if he'll get surge binding powers, maybe void binding powers??? His powers will be really unique and Nightblood will grant them. It also talks to his mind so I think it will replicate a spren. Pfft. I can't see that happening, not saying NB's 'good' (or 'bad'), but it's just hard to see him granting Odium-based powers (for me, anyway)... And yeah, I realize that it's because Szeth might be Odium's champion. Maybe. Just possessing Nightblood wouldn't make Szeth one of the Gods from Warbreaker. I'm pretty sure the Shard of that world somehow chooses certain people when they die to come back, and that is how they gain their status. They really aren't TOO much different than an average person with a lot of breaths, except for the fact that their one godly breath equals a couple hundred breaths, granting what ever heightening. It's been a while lol. Think of Nightblood like a Fabrial. It consumes the Breaths a person is holding - but only when fully unsheathed - in a similar way that the Fabrials consume Stormlight a Gem is holding. I expect that being on Roshar it will feed directly off Breaths instead, but I don't think it can use the Stormlight inside gems. I'm almost betting that just having Nightblood will give Szeth the ability to breath in Stormlight again, and the sword will consume it that way. Hmmm, I don't think that as to the case. NB might allow his welder to breathe in Stormlight on Roshar because he is still a shardblade and probably grants this ability. Otherwise, NB won't be of much use and won't be able to 'get paid' for his use as he is when he absorbs Breaths in WB. Szeth breathes stormlight in and NB eats it to do his thing. Consider that Vasher breathes in Stormlight, and I imagine he does this like a Radiant would, he's asleep in when the storm hits in his Interlude, so there's nothing stopping NB from sucking in gem-stored light and having a snack. If my logic makes sense, and hopefully it does.
Levian Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) @Nymph It's totally possible, but it just seems like Nightblood works in a very similar way to Honorblades. A person Surgebinding can't directly use the Stormlight inside a gem, they have to Breathe it in first to use it, and in Warbreaker NB feeds directly off the breath stored in a person as well. I think if NB could directly consume Stormlight from being in a Highstorm or from a gem, it would also be able to feed off Awakened objects, which I don't think is the case. The only reason I think this even matters is because if someone has no breath, or way of using Stormlight I don't think they could unsheathe NB and feed it any Investiture - other than their own life anyways. Without being able to hold Stormlight it would probably just kill them. And as far as we know, Szeth doesn't have any Surgebinding abilities at the moment. NB may end up granting him some abilities like an Honorblade does, or maybe it will just give him the ability to hold Stormlight. The one problem with the theory of NB being almost the same thing as an Honorblade is that unsheathing NB consumes Breath/Investiture where as an Honorblade doesn't. The only similarity is the rate at which they burn through said Investiture. Also, NB doesn't grant any abilities to the wielder in Warbreaker, but being on Roshar may make things change. Edited March 24, 2014 by Levian
Mistdork she/her Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Levian, I think we might be talking past each other. I'm sorry that I didn't use all the correct terminology to make what I meant to say make more sense...(I'm new, so I can use that excuse until Damnation freezes over...) You have to remember that no matter what, NB is from a different world with a different magic system and so he works differently than Honorblades which are of a different Shard anyway. We shouldn't expect NB to work the same way an Honorblade (or Shardblade) since he is...a Shardblade of Endowment, not Honor. He can consume the Stormlight once Szeth breathes it in (supposedly from gems), meaning Szeth can breathe in Stormlight but only when he's wielding NB, because Szeth would need a buffer of Investiture to wield NB safely. You can view Breaths on Nalthis as the same thing, an Investiture buffer that keeps NB's wielder safe as long as they're invested with enough Breath...However, that doesn't mean that Szeth would have any surgebinding abilities, just that he would be relatively safe as long as he . He should only be able to cut things or throw NB at a bunch of people so they can slay each other because of their greed... I won't say NB won't grant Szeth no abilities, Szeth might still be able to heal via Stormlight (though it seems unlikely), but if Szeth gets something else from holding NB we can't predict it at this point (it might be more Endowment-based...though probably in a weird sort of way that will make sense...)Bah, all this makes me wonder if V can Awaken with Stormlight and what the differences between Awakening with Stormlight and Breath might be...*sigh* Also, it's Nymp. There's no 'h', I didn't choose this usename just because Nymph wasn't available. Edited March 24, 2014 by Nymp
Moogle Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 However, that doesn't mean that Szeth would have any surgebinding abilities, just that he would be relatively safe as long as he . He should only be able to cut things or throw NB at a bunch of people so they can slay each other because of their greed... I won't say NB won't grant Szeth no abilities, Szeth might still be able to heal via Stormlight (though it seems unlikely), but if Szeth gets something else from holding NB we can't predict it at this point (it might be more Endowment-based...though probably in a weird sort of way that will make sense...) We have this rather interesting WoB: Q: If an Elantrian was bonded a seon and traveled to Roshar would that bond act as a Nahel bond? A: The bond would act very similarly granting the bonded certain abilities but not exactly the same as the spren bond. As well as this: Q: Does Szeth have any Surgebinding powers . . . losing the honorblade? A: He would not have any after losing the honorblade. However, he has been approached by a member of one of the orders. And so, it's entirely possible that you would see him going somewhere with that. He also has a very special sword, that does very special things. Source There's a definite implication that Szeth will gain some interesting passive benefits from bonding with Nightblood. (The Warbreaker annotations imply you can bond with Nightblood, and that Vasher did this, hence why he didn't feel sick when using the sword.)
Mistdork she/her Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) We have this rather interesting WoB: As well as this: There's a definite implication that Szeth will gain some interesting passive benefits from bonding with Nightblood. (The Warbreaker annotations imply you can bond with Nightblood, and that Vasher did this, hence why he didn't feel sick when using the sword.) I was thinking along those lines (those two WoB actually) when I brought this up, but I'm just not fast/good at quote-fu yet... though I'm not sure that completely confirms the bonded aspect for Nightblood or not (but it's been awhile since I've read the annotations for WB...BUT, I won't say it's impossible to do so, Nightblood's sentience is certainly...spren-like). Anyway, when I said we can't predict it, I meant more that we don't know what it is exactly but it's bound to be...weird/interesting/whichever. Edited March 24, 2014 by Nymp
Thought Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 I think that for Szeth to attract a Highspren he will need to stop listening to Nalan and do what is truly just. Do the stone shamans deserve to die for making a mistake? Szeth is just as responsible for his murders as the people who hired him, he could have stopped whenever he wanted. I would suggest that you are confusing Highspren with Honorspren. Or in other words, what is just isn't always what is right. Syl, for example, said that she isn't concerned with laws but rather with what is right. To use D&D terminology, Windrunners and Honorspren appear to be Chaotic Good, whereas Highspren and Skybreakers seem to be Lawful Neutral. Szeth isn't culpable because he was following his laws, whereas the Stone Shaman are responsible because they violated laws (making someone truthless who was actually truthful). This might mean that King T can't be approached, because so far he hasn't clearly broken any laws. On a totally different note, assuming that Nightblood will be able to feed of Stormlight instead of Breath (I'm assuming that Szeth will have to learn how to hack the system, at least a little), then I really hope we get to see NB pulled out of its sheath during a Highstorm. That could probably kill an entire army right there. 1
Radiant_thoughts Posted March 25, 2014 Author Posted March 25, 2014 Just a thought could nalan have saved Szeth in order to set him against the stone shamans, not for revenge or justice, but for something more tangable, 7 honorblades. Tipping the balance of power on roshar. 1
Nalan Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 To use D&D terminology, Windrunners and Honorspren appear to be Chaotic Good, whereas Highspren and Skybreakers seem to be Lawful Neutral. Fascinating idea. Not sure if I agree. But very thought-provoking. Thanks.
kaellok he/him Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Fascinating idea. Not sure if I agree. But very thought-provoking. Thanks. At the very least, we know that Nalan is bound by the laws of the lands he's in. Since I forget how to do the spoiler thing, and I'm too lazy to search for it right now, I'll just be annoyingly vague. In that one section with the awesome character, we saw the lengths that he went to in order to abide by the dictates of the land--and the consequences when the law was broken. Also, we saw the result when the circumstances changed. He specifically said that he wasn't concerned with whether the actions taken were good or evil. We can assume that he had a mission or goal of some sort that he was working towards, but only within the confines of the laws. Classic lawful neutral 1
Nalan Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 At the very least, we know that Nalan is bound by the laws of the lands he's in. Since I forget how to do the spoiler thing, and I'm too lazy to search for it right now, I'll just be annoyingly vague. In that one section with the awesome character, we saw the lengths that he went to in order to abide by the dictates of the land--and the consequences when the law was broken. Also, we saw the result when the circumstances changed. He specifically said that he wasn't concerned with whether the actions taken were good or evil. We can assume that he had a mission or goal of some sort that he was working towards, but only within the confines of the laws. Classic lawful neutral I think the more interesting question surrounds the alignment of Windrunners and Honorspren. What is "honor"? Based on the way Syl reacts to Kaladin's choices and ponderings, she equates honor with consistency. To her, one should say what they mean and mean what they say. Her objection to Kaladin's support of Moash's plan seemed to stem more from her views on the similarities between Elkohar and Tien than on whether Moash's plan was good or evil. To have compassion toward Tien, but not Elkohar would be inconsistent and, therefore, dishonorable (according to Syl). Maybe that's why Skybreakers are Lawful Neutral. As others have suggested 'round these parts, the decision of whether to label a behavior as "good" or "evil" often depends on which end of the spear you're on. Given these subjectivities, perhaps Skybreakers rely on the law to be their compass because they desperately hope it represents the consensus view.
Isaiah Zayth he/him Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) It appears that most people believe Nightblood cannot feed directly on "raw" stormlight that exists in Roshar. Instead, it seems that he can only use it once his bearer has drawn upon it. With that in mind, has it been postulated that Nightblood may, in fact, consume stormlight from people instead of gems? Or am I barking at the wrong chull? In other words, the Nahel bond allows people to consume stormlight, but Nightblood takes that one step further. So what normally would be: Stormlight --> Spren bond --> Human would now have an extra step of: Stormlight --> Spren bond --> Human --> Nightblood In other words, he is a fabrial that feeds off of invested persons instead of gemhearts. If that is true, and Szeth can figure out a way to retain his own stormlight and regain his surgebinding... wow. If Szeth can indeed do this with Nightblood then I think he goes straight after the Stone Shamans. Also: if Nightblood is as powerful as this, no wonder Nalan wanted Szeth on his side. Edited March 25, 2014 by Isaiah Zayth
WitSpren he/him Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 At the very least, we know that Nalan is bound by the laws of the lands he's in. Since I forget how to do the spoiler thing, and I'm too lazy to search for it right now, I'll just be annoyingly vague. In that one section with the awesome character, we saw the lengths that he went to in order to abide by the dictates of the land--and the consequences when the law was broken. Also, we saw the result when the circumstances changed. He specifically said that he wasn't concerned with whether the actions taken were good or evil. We can assume that he had a mission or goal of some sort that he was working towards, but only within the confines of the laws. Classic lawful neutral My feeling is that Szeth's first assignment needs to be Nalan. Because I am sure that Nalan was even more of an accomplas to the murder of Azi Prime Gawk than Ym was as a delivery boy of the wine. I am sure that killing the Prim is against the law, and as Gawk is Prime and has always been Prime it was surely the worst level of murder in the country. It matters not that Gawk was resurrected. Murder is Murder. Now we need to find a way for Szeth to learn of his master's unlawful behavior. Or maybe Nalan will do the deed himself after the new Azi Prime puts out some wanted posters for him. 1
Bramble Thorn Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 My feeling is that Szeth's first assignment needs to be Nalan. Because I am sure that Nalan was even more of an accomplas to the murder of Azi Prime Gawk than Ym was as a delivery boy of the wine. I am sure that killing the Prim is against the law, and as Gawk is Prime and has always been Prime it was surely the worst level of murder in the country. It matters not that Gawk was resurrected. Murder is Murder. Now we need to find a way for Szeth to learn of his master's unlawful behavior. Or maybe Nalan will do the deed himself after the new Azi Prime puts out some wanted posters for him. Nice thought process. I have previously posted that he is also somewhat culpable for Szeth's Murders, As per his conversation with Szeth they seem to worship/respect/give authority to the Heralds in Shinovar, and thus making him in a sense an "Officer of the court" who know about a miscarriage of Justice and who refused to make public his exculpatory evidence, and an accessory after the fact due to his willful misconduct. Maybe we can get together and try to talk him to death sometime. == Just a thought could nalan have saved Szeth in order to set him against the stone shamans, not for revenge or justice, but for something more tangable, 7 honorblades. Tipping the balance of power on roshar. This makes sense. Nalan seems not to worship the law so much as use it like a hammer on whatever agenda he has. I can see him using this as a Oceans 11 gambit to steal the Swords in the Stone from the Lady in the Lake Stone Shamans. Another possibility is Shinovar is protected from Highstorms. It could very well also be protected from the Everstorm. The Szeth/Nightblood combo could be a way to get some destructive weather into the country in the form a walking typhoon. A rep to the both of you!
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