[OB] Who will NOT be Radiant?

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

There is incredibly many threads dedicated to discussing which characters will become Knights Radiant. I thought we could turn the tropes and make a thread dedicated to discussing who won´t bond a spren and become a Radiant. 

So, any ideas?

[Journey Before Pancakes]

I doubt Navani would ever become radiant.

She might be damaged enough that it's theoretically possible; but I don't think she will.  Mostly because her primary interest includes trapping spren, which would likely make honorspren uncomfortable.

The only exception I can think of would be if for some reason trapping (lesser) spren is seen as a virtue by some other spren.

[galendo]

Sadeas.  Torol or Ialai, take your pick.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

6 minutes ago, galendo said:

Torol

Death is generally something that stops you from becoming a Radiant (proof: Elhokar). So yeah, I can see why he would be ruled ou :-).

Edited May 24, 2018 by Toaster Retribution

[go_go_gragdet]

25 minutes ago, Journey Before Pancakes said:

I doubt Navani would ever become radiant.

She might be damaged enough that it's theoretically possible; but I don't think she will.  Mostly because her primary interest includes trapping spren, which would likely make honorspren uncomfortable.

The only exception I can think of would be if for some reason trapping (lesser) spren is seen as a virtue by some other spren.

I think I've read a discussion between Jasnah and Shallan, where Shallan seemed somewhat outraged by the idea of trapping spren (even lesser ones), whereas Jasnah seemed fine with it (at least where lesser ones were concerned). Perhaps inkspren aren't as uncomfortable with the idea as honorspren might be. I also recall Captain Ico's comments about using shardblades/deadeyes as tools, and referring to himself as "pragmatic". I think some higher spren could indeed be "okay" with it.

[+robardin he/him]

I was going to suggest Gaz, but I think there was a suggestion in Oathbringer that Vathah was becoming a squire to Shallan (he started putting an illusion onto himself with Stormlight, much to his own surprise), so who knows, maybe Gaz is next?

In fact, if Gaz were able to draw in Stormlight, would he heal his missing eye?

Has Shallan ever done one of her inspirational sketches, "Gaz As He Could Have Been; As He Should Have Been"? (Or Vathah?) Her sketch of Elhokar was described so well, and so soon before his death, it was a huge component of what made that scene extra sad.

[Llarimar he/him]

I know people commonly say this, but I still think it's valuable to bring up, that I don't think Adolin will ever become a Knight Radiant.  I think part of the idea behind Adolin is to have a main viewpoint character who is just a normal person - not particularly secretive or duplicitous (like Shallan), not particularly intelligent (like Jasnah) and not endowed with magical powers (like all the Knights Radiant).  The only way for him to become a Knight Radiant, I think, would be through his story arc with Maya.

The hard thing about saying who will and who will not become a Radiant is that all of the different Orders cater to very different people, and all of the spren have very different motivations.  Shallan has done things, for example, that would probably be considered morally wrong and antithetical to the ideals of the honorspren.  The honorspren are so straightforward and idealistic, whereas Cryptics deal with lies, and relative truth, and compromise, which in many ways are opposite of the ideals of the honorspren.  There are also some Orders that we still know very little about - such as Dustbringers and Stonewards - and for all we know, their ideals and motivations may attract very different types of people from the Radiants we've seen already.  Some people think that Malata (the only Dustbringer we've met), is possibly a bad guy and that she is aligned with Odium, through Taravangian - and if Radiant spren can bond with Odium supporters, they can surely bond with anyone.    

When people say that Ialai Sadeas, for example, will never become a Radiant, I agree that she is definitely an unlikely candidate, but who knows - maybe the Dustbringer spren would find her to be just perfect for them.  Or how about this as a crazy idea - perhaps Ialai will bond the Sibling, creating a major shift in the power dynamic, and forcing Dalinar and Navani to work with her.  I'm just saying it's possible - we know very little about the Sibling's motivations and what type of person they would look for in a Bondsmith.  I mean, we've already seen that spren often choose less-than-perfect people.  Dalinar did horrible things in his past, and yet he was still bonded by the Stormfather, and Shallan is another example (although she really didn't have a choice...).  

Edited May 24, 2018 by Llarimar

[teknopathetic he/him]

5 hours ago, Journey Before Pancakes said:

I doubt Navani would ever become radiant.

She and Rock are my top contenders for bonding the Nightwatcher:

Edited May 24, 2018 by teknopathetic

[ljósmóður she/her]

I'm guessing Taravangian is probably low on most spren's list of 'people I might like to bond with' - although the Diagram do have their Radiant so, who knows? I wonder what it would do to his Nightwatcher Boon/Bane. Both Dalinor and Lift seem to have some pretty funky disjunction between their NIghtwatcher gifts and their Radiance - although, of course, Dalinor's wasn't a true one anyway. Boons/Banes are meant to be permanent but Lift's doesn't appear to be; a product of her healing abilities as a KR perhaps? What would becoming Radiant do to Mr. T's impaired cognitive functioning, his compassion or his 'capacity'? I don't think he's a candidate for Radiance but it would be interesting to see how that unfolded.

And Moash - since he's now a sort of anti-Radiant anyway.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by ljósmóður
Way too many Boon/Banes

[Calderis he/him]

2 hours ago, ljósmóður said:

Boons/Banes are meant to be permanent but Lift's doesn't appear to be; a product of her healing abilities as a KR perhaps?

What about hers doesn't appear to be permanent? She has to eat to gain Stormlight and can't inhale it as others do. She can touch Wyndel, which according to him should not be possible. The things she's gained don't appear to have any relation to normal Radiance. 

[Xtafa]

37 minutes ago, Calderis said:

What about hers doesn't appear to be permanent? She has to eat to gain Stormlight and can't inhale it as others do. She can touch Wyndel, which according to him should not be possible. The things she's gained don't appear to have any relation to normal Radiance. 

I'm guessing they're referring to the fact that Lift is still aging despite thinking that she shouldn't. 

Though until we know exactly what she asked, thats moot for now.

----------------------

As much as I want Maya to be renewed, I don't want a Radiant Adolin. 

[Devout Pathian]

25 minutes ago, Xtafa said:

As much as I want Maya to be renewed, I don't want a Radiant Adolin. 

Same.  I love Maya and I want her and Adolin to develop more, but I really don’t want Adolin to be a Radiant.  I think it’s a chance that it will go either way for him.  Please, please no.  I just want Adolin to be the normal guy.  He’s one of my favorites, so it’s not that I dislike him.

As far as other people go, I don’t think Kaladin’s parents will be Radiants, although I do hope we see more of them.  I guess that Lerin will be a surgeon for Odium’s side, because he will just want to save people, not caring what side he’s helping.  I also want him and Moash to meet.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Aurora the Rioter

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I used to kind of feel like Adolin wouldn't become a Radiant, but then Maya happened and now I have All Of The Feels and I want him to heal her so badly, and I think bonding with her properly is the only way to heal her.  Plus, I feel like it'd be an interesting character arc for him, that nobody else is likely to get.

I'm not convinced Navani will become a Radiant, I think she might end up being the token non-Radiant Kholin.

[ljósmóður she/her]

On 25/05/2018 at 0:23 AM, Calderis said:

What about hers doesn't appear to be permanent? She has to eat to gain Stormlight and can't inhale it as others do. She can touch Wyndel, which according to him should not be possible. The things she's gained don't appear to have any relation to normal Radiance. 

I wasn't thinking about those aspects of her being touched by Cultivation when I wrote my post. I was, as has been mentioned, thinking about the fact that she expects not to change after her visit to the Nightwatcher but it appears that she is.

I wasn't really phrasing it as a theory, more just musing on whether Radiance affects what the Nightwatcher does and what that might mean for Taravangian, were he to bond a spren. However, I do acknowledge that - since we don't know Lift's boon/bane - it's mere speculation on my part. For what it's worth, I like the theory that Lift is A LOT older than she appears and Cultivation's comment about how long it has been since she last intervened directly may have a direct bearing here! In which case, maybe neither Dalinor or Lift could be said to have a true boon/bane from the Nightwear her so maybe it wouldn't be an issue for Mr. T. after all.

To stick with the OP though, I still think he's an unlikely candidate for Radiance though!

[+robardin he/him]

On 5/24/2018 at 4:07 PM, Llarimar said:

I know people commonly say this, but I still think it's valuable to bring up, that I don't think Adolin will ever become a Knight Radiant.  I think part of the idea behind Adolin is to have a main viewpoint character who is just a normal person - not particularly secretive or duplicitous (like Shallan), not particularly intelligent (like Jasnah) and not endowed with magical powers (like all the Knights Radiant).  The only way for him to become a Knight Radiant, I think, would be through his story arc with Maya.

I would be quite disappointed if Adolin did not end up reviving - and presumably bonding - with Maya. No other dead Shardblade bearer has ever been known to talk to their Blade enough to hear a name, summon it in fewer than ten syncing heartbeats, or to hear it talking to them in their head, as Adolin did... And it wouldn't make much sense for Adolin to be able to bond to Maya as a Shardblade alone, and not become a KR, though I wouldn't be surprised if reviving/bonding a "maimed" spren resulted in other limitations.

Remember that becoming a Surgebinder isn't about having sDNA or whatever makes the Shaod happen to an Arelonian on Sel - even offworlders like Hoid can attract and bond a spren, it's up to the spren to select a matching person, and there surely are more matching people than there currently are spren looking to form bonds. That's one of the reasons, I think, the Kholin family is so rife with Radiants - Renarin, Danilar, Gavilar, Elhokar, Jasnah - is that once spren start swirling around a location or group of people, other spren start looking, too (kind of like how people will stop and try to figure out what a crowd is looking at, thereby making the crowd bigger and more likely to attract other people into doing the same thing).

And as for why Adolin has been seemingly "passed over" by the spren despite this... It could be that they sense his proto-bond with Maya.

As for a narrative/writing reason, I don't think Stormlight is the kind of story that wants or needs a balance of "magical" versus "normal" people to drive it. It's all magic, baby. With there being TEN Orders of Knights Radiant and a Final Desolation coming up, and all, we're going to have a lot of them. I think it's enough for a character like Adolin to have to "go a different route" towards it.

[Calderis he/him]

4 hours ago, robardin said:

As for a narrative/writing reason, I don't think Stormlight is the kind of story that wants or needs a balance of "magical" versus "normal" people to drive it. It's all magic, baby. With there being TEN Orders of Knights Radiant and a Final Desolation coming up, and all, we're going to have a lot of them. I think it's enough for a character like Adolin to have to "go a different route" towards it.

Just look at what their up against. Adolin already, rightly, feels pretty useless. 

The fights coming are no place for normal people. 

[+robardin he/him]

14 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Just look at what their up against. Adolin already, rightly, feels pretty useless. 

The fights coming are no place for normal people. 

He's already a full Shardbearer, and one of the most skilled at it, in his fighting prime. Yet he feels outclassed by facing the Voidbinding Fused, thunderclasts, the Midnight Mother and other Unmade... And rightly so.

Another thing to note, Adolin is the only Shardbearer we've seen other than Dalinar who has had "spells" in the middle of combat when The Thrill was lost and turned to horror and dismay, even before Dalinar trapped Nergaoul in the King's Drop gem. It may be that Alethi in general don't talk about The Thrill, but both their POVs suggested it was unusual and had never happened to them before. I think it's indicative of another spren starting to "fill in the gaps".

[Patrick Star]

Moash

[Llarimar he/him]

23 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Just look at what their up against. Adolin already, rightly, feels pretty useless. 

The fights coming are no place for normal people. 

This is a good point.  Especially because Adolin doesn't really have anything else.  Like I said earlier, he's not particularly intelligent or remarkable and he doesn't have any special gifts or abilities.  He's a skilled warrior and duelist, but those aren't very unique talents, and as we saw in the battle of Thaylen City his skills are easily outclassed by the Radiants.  Because he's such a single-dimensional character in many ways, he doesn't have a rich character arc either and he doesn't really contribute to other people character arcs.  His prominence to Shallan's story is at best peripheral, because even though they're married, the Shallan-Adolin relationship is the most shallow aspect of her character, and her real depth comes from her Surgebinding and tortured past.  So if Adolin doesn't become a Radiant, he will just be filling up a lot of space without serving a significant purpose or embellishing other people's character arcs in a meaningful way.   

Edited May 27, 2018 by Llarimar

[Calderis he/him]

@robardin @Llarimar Add in the number of Radiants in prior desolations and it gets crazier. 

Between the Stonewards and Windrunners at Feverstone keep you had 300 Radiants from two orders, all advanced enough for blade and plate. 

If the other orders were similar, then your looking at 1300+ Radiants at a time that the Radiants were apparently in decline.

And the strongest of the Fused are apparently yet to awaken. 

We're going to need a lot more Radiants. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Calderis

[The Harlem Worldhoppers he/him]

I really want to see Adolin revive his blade next book. So far he has been such a perfect one dimensional character and I thought him murdering Sadeas might finally catalyse some character growth. Maybe he will have a falling out with Dalinar after discovering what really happened in Rathalas and this falling out could leave cracks in his spirit web for a radiant bond to fill.

[npi2015]

Even though I think Adolin will become a Radiant by reviving Maya, I wouldn't like this to happen. I think having a character that is not a Radiant adds some richness to the story. Aside from that, I am not sure if he has gone through something harsh enough to crack his spiritweb. 

Aside from that, Moash probably won't become a KR, and Taravangian probably won't either. Maybe Tar somehow bonds one of the Unmade or becomes Odium's Champion now that Dalinar is not a possibility. I also don't see any of the Heralds becoming KR.

[+robardin he/him]

3 hours ago, npi2015 said:

I also don't see any of the Heralds becoming KR.

It's already happened. Nalan is himself a Skybreaker of the Fifth Ideal, remember? The only Herald (so far) to have joined their own Order.

[ljósmóður she/her]

4 hours ago, npi2015 said:

 I also don't see any of the Heralds becoming KR.

Nale already is. Jezrien won't be, sadly, and I think the others who abandoned the oathpact (the ones we've seen this far) probably aren't good candidates. But, I could see Taln bonding a spren, maybe? When Dalinor was noting the orders represented at Thaylinah, he counted 9 (because he's unaware of Venli as a Willshaper). That means, he was counting Taln as the current representative of the Stonewards and I could see an outcome in future books where Taln, like Nale, is both patron and member of his order.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

There is the Ash will be Dustbringer theory as well, which I believe. It was hinted at in OB, so I think Ash will become a Dustbringer. I can see Taln becoming a KR as well.