Shallan and Renarin!? (Full Spoilers)

[Grimm he/him]

Was anyone else surprised when Jasnah announced Shallan's causal to Adolin? I yelled! I thought "grrr sneaky Brandon, you're winding everyone up, making a love triangle between Renarin, Adolin and Shallan!". Did anyone else think this was following the lines of Navani's relationship with Gavilar (the older brother, as Adolin) and Dalinar (the younger, as Renarin)? It made too much of a coincidence to me. I had it planned out in my head. Adolin would see Shallan as a sexy foreigner, they would get semi close, but Shallan's real interest would be in nerdy and deep Renarin, who aligned so much better with Shallan (which of course drastically changes, hence why this would never work). Navani would eventually tell Shallan to follow her heart and not make the same mistake she did (although in hindsight, that would mean she wouldn't have her children..hmm lol). After the whole book, Shallan would finally choose Renarin and wahoo! happily ever after.

 

This being said, I LOVED Shallan and Adolin together, and I definitely changed my views on both of these characters, including Renarin, who I initially had high hopes for, then he went and had an emo streak instead (understandably, given his order; he now sees the ugly future?) 

 

Anyway; for all those Pre-WoR Shallan/Renarin shippers, what do you think?? Do you like Adolin/Shallan together now? Were you as initially shocked as I was at the causal for Adolin and Shallan? Did you feel betrayed? I did!

[Stormcrown]

I wasn't surprised at all.

 

If we get a love triangle its going to be Kaladin+Adolin+Shallan.

[kogs]

Remember Brandon said originally there was no Adolin, only Dalinar.  So maybe Shallan was supposed to end up with Renarin when Brandon first planned it out.

[kogs]

I wasn't surprised at all.

 

If we get a love triangle its going to be Kaladin+Adolin+Shallan.

 

What if we find out Kaladin is Dalinar's illegitimate son?  Or possibly Dalinar's mysterious deceased wife.  Then Kaladin + Adolin would be half brothers!

[Sirscott13 he/him]

Personally I think Adolin is going down the path of the dark side SPOILER ALERT! ....... (you know like when he kills sadeas)......

 

Anyway, I think after the chasm walk with Kaladin, Shallan is going to fall for him. You already see it happening a little. Nobody just wants to admit it yet. I bet you Adolin is going to loose Shallan because of this dark path and then Kaladin is just going to become all the more appealing  

[Grimm he/him]

I wasn't surprised at all.

If we get a love triangle its going to be Kaladin+Adolin+Shallan.

I understand and agree, although I really thought Shallan and Renarin would be the couple!

If we do get the love triangle, it's going to be frustratingly predictable. I really hope we get surprised with someone else. Along these lines, what of Laral?

[Grimm he/him]

Personally I think Adolin is going down the path of the dark side SPOILER ALERT! ....... (you know like when he kills sadeas)......

Anyway, I think after the chasm walk with Kaladin, Shallan is going to fall for him. You already see it happening a little. Nobody just wants to admit it yet. I bet you Adolin is going to loose Shallan because of this dark path and then Kaladin is just going to become all the more appealing

I find myself agreeing. However, after the Adolin downfall, I definitely see him rising back up from broken man status (our seemingly pre-requisite for becoming a KR) to KR himself at the end of the book. Another path is him joining another faction, although I see this as less likely. Either way, I hope he wins Shallan back.

[Cracknut he/him]

Adolin + Shallan isn't working as far as I know. At this point Renarin has better chances with Shallan then Adolin. Kaladin killed her brother and most likely he's ex will be showing up at some point so there will be lots of trouble for them as well. But lets face it, she'll most likely end up with Lopen.

[Colby Jack he/him]

I don't want this to happen, and hopefully it won't, but I honestly doubt Shallan will end up with Kaladin. At first, I assumed that Shallan will leave Adolin for Kaladin, but after I remembered that there is going to be a time-skip around book 5...

The most dramatic and somewhat likely scenario I have played out in my head will be that Shallan go through the normal dance that most love triangles have and finally realized that she's in love with Kaladin. She'll be all ready to elope with him, but then finds out that he was the one who really killed her brother. That discovery influence her to stay away from him. Shallan follows through with the engagement and marries Adolin, but after the time-skip, gradually grows bored/annoyed with him like Navani had with Gavilar. Yup. It'll be Gavilar and Dalinar 2.0... only not in the way I wanted. I mean, I really like the bro-mance between Kaladin and Adolin. I just hope Kaladin finds his soulmate while Shallan swoon over Adolin's boyish good looks. And if it's Laral, then I'll flip the [CAKE] out!

[Seloun]

This has been discussed a lot in Shallan's Relationship thread, but it seems pretty clear given the evidence that Kaladin/Shallan is the most likely immediate pairing (in the long run, of course, much can change).

 

 

The most dramatic and somewhat likely scenario I have played out in my head will be that Shallan go through the normal dance that most love triangles have and finally realized that she's in love with Kaladin. She'll be all ready to elope with him, but then finds out that he was the one who really killed her brother. That discovery influence her to stay away from him. Shallan follows through with the engagement and marries Adolin, but after the time-skip, gradually grows bored/annoyed with him like Navani had with Gavilar. Yup. It'll be Gavilar and Dalinar 2.0... only not in the way I wanted. I mean, I really like the bro-mance between Kaladin and Adolin. I just hope Kaladin finds his soulmate while Shallan swoon over Adolin's boyish good looks. And if it's Laral, then I'll flip the [CAKE] out!

 

I find it unlikely that Helaran's death will play a huge role. The main issue is that it's not really a problem if Shallan can talk to Kaladin about it. Even when she believes Amaram is responsible (someone who she is actively wary of given the evidence he's trying to bring back to Voidbringers) the worse she can say is:

 

 

Shallan felt an immediate anger at seeing her brother’s murderer here, but found that it had quieted somewhat. A smoldering loathing instead of an intense hatred. It had been a long time since she’d seen Helaran, now. And Balat had a point in that her older brother had abandoned them.

 

To try to kill this man, apparently— or so she’d been able to put together from what she’d read of Amaram and his Shardblade. Why had Helaran gone to kill this man? And could she really blame Amaram when, in truth, he’d probably just been defending himself? She felt like she knew so little.

 

Though Amaram was still a bastard, of course.

 

She's not happy about it, of course, but all things considered she's not all that broken up about it, and can pretty easily rationalize what happened. If Kaladin (with his 'So intense' eyes) explains what happens to her in person, it's hard to imagine it being a big deal. In fact, during WoR, there's a lot of effort spent on obfuscating Kaladin's role; there's at least three good places where Shallan could have learned enough Helaran's death to have made the connection. It's clearly being saved for when Kaladin isn't around to defend himself (conveniently, he's flying off immediately at the end of WoR), and where other people (like say Mraize or even Gaz or Pattern, due to Honorspren - Cryptic thing) who don't like Kaladin or have some reason to have friction between KRs might put it in an unsavory light.

 

It's hard to imagine Shallan won't find out about it very early in the next book. Lots of people know about the truth of Kaladin's accusation at this point, and as soon as she finds out why Dalinar booted Amaram, the connection will be obvious (the people who know enough at this point minimally include Dalinar, Navani, Renarin, and likely Adolin, as well as pretty much all of the bridgemen; there's likely many more beyond those).

 

So the most likely scenario is that Shallan will learn early on (like right after Kaladin takes off) that Kaladin was the one who killed the Shardbearer that attacked Amaram. She'll get a distorted version of what Really Happened or what Probably Happened from people with a vested interested in driving a wedge between the two (there are quite a few candidates). Kaladin will be out of touch for most of the book, so she'll stew over it until near the end. They get back in touch, she makes a big deal of it (after a period of sullen anger that bewilders Kaladin, naturally), Kaladin goes 'This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules?', misunderstood tension gets resolved and relationship resumes course.

 

Meanwhile, while Kaladin is out of comms, he'll likely resolve his past romantic issues with Laran and Tarah. The setup feels so obvious that I keep think that this might be trolling, with an unexpected subversion coming.

[Grimm he/him]

Meanwhile, while Kaladin is out of comms, he'll likely resolve his past romantic issues with Laran and Tarah. The setup feels so obvious that I keep think that this might be trolling, with an unexpected subversion coming.

 

I agree with this last statement; it seems too easy right now for the things to head the way we are thinking. Something weird is definitely going to be happening with Laral; she's either dead, she's some bat-crazy light-eyes that's done something horrible to the town, or she's the victim of filthy Roshone! With Tarah..Brandon has hidden so much, so it's going to be genuine surprise who/whatever she turns out to be.

 

I wasn't aware of this time skip around book 5? Do we know how long this is? 

 

In the long run I see Renarin ending up with some other Truthwatcher or something along those lines; I feel Shallan is going to continue to grow in weird and wonderful ways, with her joining the ghostbloods, taking on multiple identities through her lightweaving, etc. I see a lot of emotional rust hitting the fan for Shallan, which is sad. In the long run with Kal..I reckon he'll end up with some love of epic proportions, something really cool. He may get involved with Shallan for a while, but that's not where I see him ending.

 

All aside, Lopen is the next Alethi King. Long live The Lopen, and may all the ladies swoon over his flying and man-sticking abilities!

 

[V'rish Makik he/him]

 But lets face it, she'll most likely end up with Lopen.

 

 

All aside, Lopen is the next Alethi King. Long live The Lopen, and may all the ladies swoon over his flying and man-sticking abilities!

 

 

ROFL Yes!

 

Edited March 25, 2014 by V'rish Makik

[Wileygirl13]

What about their spren? Are we gonna see a spren romance? Not sure how that would work though.

Would the spren interfere in a romance?

Maybe Syl and Pattern will throw down. Don't the honor spren and cryptics/lie spren have issues?

[1empyrean]

Ok, Shallan makes it absolutely clear that she thinks Renarin is a creepy and weird.  In the first book, it is stated that this is the general female reaction to him.  So...It is clear to ME that if he ends up with anyone, it will be because Hoid convinces someone quite ridiculous (one of the less insane haralds) to go on a date with him.

 

then, and ONLY then, Laral will realize she hates Roshone, leave him, and start courting Renarin (who ditches one of the heralds because she is downright insane).  Afterwards, Renarin asks Adolin for relationship advice...

 

So, the triangle is actually Kaladin-Laral-Renarin.  This is the ONLY scenario Hoid will allow.

 

 

...Aaaaaannd that is just about as seriously as I have considered the Shallarin theory.

Edited March 17, 2014 by 1empyrean

[Grimm he/him]

Hahaha I like it! I seriously hope Kal ends up with Laral. Would be pathetically cute but never happen. Something bad will probably just happen instead. Imagine if he won Laral's affection, takes her with him to Kholinar, then she gets caught up in some hostage situation and dies! Holy Stormfather that would destroy part of my soul.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Grimm

[Bort he/him]

Was it confirmed that Amaram was using the Blade he took from Kaladin? It turned out, after all, that he owned two of them - one taken from an assassin, and one taken a few months earlier and hidden away.

 

At least, I believe I've got the details right here, but have only read that part of WoR once sofar, so may have missed something.

 

I think we'll find out that Kaladin didn't kill Helaran, but some other Shardbearer, and Helaran was the assassin sent after Amaram a few months later.

 

Back on topic though, I don't think Shallan and Renarin would stand a chance. They are opposites. He is a Truthseeker, she deals in lies. That said, opposites attract, so who knows?

[Cracknut he/him]

Was it confirmed that Amaram was using the Blade he took from Kaladin? It turned out, after all, that he owned two of them - one taken from an assassin, and one taken a few months earlier and hidden away.

 

At least, I believe I've got the details right here, but have only read that part of WoR once sofar, so may have missed something.

 

I think we'll find out that Kaladin didn't kill Helaran, but some other Shardbearer, and Helaran was the assassin sent after Amaram a few months later.

 

Back on topic though, I don't think Shallan and Renarin would stand a chance. They are opposites. He is a Truthseeker, she deals in lies. That said, opposites attract, so who knows?

Assassination month ago/after etc was just Amaram lying. He had only one sword which he took from Kaladin and Helaran actually was there to assassinate Amaram so it's a nice lie. Second sword he got from Dalinar, who wanted to check whether or not Amaram would lie to him, which he did. Dalinar had already bonded that sword and reclaimed easily by summoning it.

 

Good point with them being opposites. I seriously doubt Shallan will end up with Kaladin or Adolin. I'm expecting something more special on romance side of story. Adolin and Shalan is never happening as far as I know. Only thing that attracts her to Adolin is his looks and she's been lying/manipulating him ever since they met. Kaladin and Shallan are too obvious to be true and I don't see them together for a long time.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Cracknut

[Khyrindor he/him]

My prediction on the third book:

Kaladin flies into Hearthstone (Heartstone?) to find his father and mother dead, at the hands of Roshone. Laral recognizes him as a lighteyes (which she wanted) and starts to swoon over him. Roshone gets jealous and tries (foolishly) to kill Kaladin. You know how that ends. Then he will go to Kholinar and have an epic battle with Jezrien and then teleport/evacuate Kholinar to Urithuru right before the Everstorm hits.

Back in Urithuru, people blame Dalinar for Sadeas' death, but Renarin uncovers the truth, making Shallan very disappointed with him. She won't like Renarin because the truth/lie thing, and will be anxiously waiting for Kaladin to return, because she realizes that she loves him. When Kaladin does arrive, she realizes that she was destined to be alone.

Nalan will appear to Adolin about what he did, and recruit him for the Twisted Justice Legion, and he will go bad until he kills Nalan (somehow). Then he will found the Cleansed Justice Legion (AKA the Skybreakers) and go on from there.

And then Tarah arrives, who happens to be the Herald of Shallan's order, and will ruin everything that way, and Laral will end up dead.

But, we all know how our predictions of book 2 went...

[Raitei]

I haven't read the relationship thread for Shallan yet but here is my consensus on the matter:

 

Shallan will ultimately (thank god) fall for Kaladin. Has to happen.

 

Alodin is such a douchebag (inadvertedly) but they just "make" more sense to me, it's what's right in my mind, anyhow.

 

i'm rooting for them. Szeth and Nightblood will probably have something else to say about the matter I bet. 

[FeatherWriter she/her]

I'm guuueeesssssssiiiing that people have been expecting me to respond to this thread, huh? 
 

Pre-WoR Shallan/Renarin shippers, what do you think?? Do you like Adolin/Shallan together now? Were you as initially shocked as I was at the causal for Adolin and Shallan? Did you feel betrayed? I did!

 
'Sup. I'm here now.
 
So, let's talk Shallarin. I am... deeply ambivalent about Shallarin. And I mean that word the way it's supposed to be used: multiple conflicting opinions. On one hand, I'm saying that the theories I've had regarding Shallan and Renarin's compatibility are... for the most part... still fairly true. I end up talking about some of this in Splintercast, but the episodes haven't gotten there yet, so I'll talk here. I mean, the way that Shallan cares for her brothers and expresses her love for them by doing things to make them happy and make their lives easier seems to me like she would be a very kind and caring match for Renarin if she were to ever develop affection for him. I think Renarin's cleverness and analytical mindset as well as his natural knack for scholarship means he would be someone with whom she could have very intelligent and scholarly conversations with, which I think she would appreciate greatly.
 
However. That ending. “Creepy and whiny." "Deal with your issues." "Someone shut him up." "Gag him if you must."
 
*very long angry sigh*
 
So... the basics of Shallarin are still valid, but let's face it, after their first meeting, they've got a long way to go. At the moment, I'm pretty ticked with Shallan (even though, yes, I know she was under a lot of stress and it was a tense situation.) I mean, it's Renarin though. I can't help but feel visciously protective of him, and Shallan was probably the rudest person to him this whole book. Even the stinking Shardbearer in the dueling ring who was trying to maim Adolin was kind enough to Renarin not to actually fight against him and just keep him occupied. 
 
Shallan's got some growing to do before I think she would be ready for a relationship with Renarin. She's got some making up to do before I would think she deserves him. I'd like an apology from her in canon, but I haven't the faintest idea whether or not that's going to happen. Long term, I think Shallan and Renarin are still a possible viable option, for the reasons discussed above here and in the multiple Shallarin essays floating about by me (click the link in my sig if you're curious about one of the best ones). And, I think it was 'good' (but not enjoyable) that we saw someone outside of Renarin's family (and the amazingness that was Kaladin's handling of Renarin; more on Kaladin later) reacting to him and misunderstanding him, because... well that's a thing that statistically is going to happen. 
 
I tend to like this option as a "Take A Third Option" solution to the Kaladin/Shallan/Adolin love triangle whatnot that's going on right now, because... Shalladin and Shadolin are neither one terribly appealing relationships to me. If it absolutely has to be one of those two, I'd probably pick Shadolin, because the Kaladin/Shallan relationship just kinda makes me groan at the idea of it becoming an end-game relationship. Shallan being presented with options A and B and deciding instead to choose option C sounds like lots of fun and would bIe exactly the kind of tricky subversion that would make this love triangle satisfying rather than worrisome.
 
However, I'm left with a bit of a conundrum. See, if anything the Shallarin ship has taken a step backward. The anchor is in the harbor, persay. When I did all of my theorizing I assumed that Shallan was going to react to Renarin with a level of understanding, kindness, and maturity that she... obviously did not. I think my assessment of Renarin was pretty much spot on, but Shallan was not as ready as I thought she was. Which means, that until she (hopefully) grows back up to the point where I assumed she would be for the "start" of this relationship, I don't have much to add to my theories and analysis that I haven't already said before. We're stalling here until Shallan gets her act together. Come on, girl. You're better than this, and you could be a good match for him, but... you've got a much longer way to go than I thought you would.
 
So, while we're waiting for Book 3 to hopefully show some Renarin-related growth on Shallan's part... I'm kinda jumping ships for a bit. Shallarin hasn't been abandoned... just, I don't have anything to add to it based on WoR and BOY DO I HAVE ANOTHER SHIP TO ADD THINGS FOR. All aboard... the S.S. Kalarin, hmm?
 
I realize what this sounds like. I've "fought" the Kalarin shippers for years. They've been one of Shallarin's main rivals, especially when they team up with those pesky Shasnah shippers, right? (I'm kidding, mostly. All these peeps are my friends and I love our ship rivalries.) But hey, Kaladin's interactions with Renarin were fantastic and absolutely wonderful and everything I've ever wanted someone to act like around Renarin. So I'm gonna give that ship some credit and love, alright? There were canon cutes. I can't fight canon cutes.
 
(And I don't know that I'm all the way to 'exclusive romantic relationship between Kaladin and Renarin' shipping, but I'm definitely at the 'deeply caring about each other and protective towards one another; this relationship makes both of you much better people in the long run' kind of shipping, kay?)
 
Kaladin just absolutely nailed his treatment of Renarin, to the point that I would argue that Kaladin... somehow, and somewhat inexplicably... understands Renarin on a level beyond that of the other characters. Beyond his family even. Adolin might come close, but we definitely have Kaladin being more intuitive than Dalinar when it comes to Renarin. Compare Renarin's nervousness at asking to join Bridge 4 (Kaladin POV) versus his nervousness at revealing that he's a Radiant (Dalinar POV). Kaladin picks up on it and understands. Dalinar doesn't.
 

Kaladin folded his arms, looking the youth over. Renarin looked anxious. Very anxious. He’d formed his hands to fists, though Kaladin could see no sign of the box Renarin often fiddled with when nervous. He’d begun breathing deeply, but had set his jaw, and kept his eyes forward.
Coming to see Kaladin, to ask this of him, terrified the young man for some reason. He’d done it anyway. Could one ask anything more of a recruit?

 

“Four orders,” Dalinar said, squeezing Renarin’s shoulder with pride. Storms, the lad was trembling. What made him so worried?

 
Kaladin also really understands Renarin's condition and knows how to take care of his symptoms and what to do if he were to have a seizure. When Renarin starts talking about his "blood weakness" Kaladin immediately wants to know exactly what Renarin's condition is and what he should be expecting to see. He knows the right kind of treatment and is thorough in making sure that he would be prepared to handle a situation in which Renarin's condition were affecting him. 

 

“Physical ailments,” Renarin said. “I’ve a blood weakness.”
“That’s a folk description of many different conditions,” Kaladin said. “What do you really have?”
“I’m epileptic,” Renarin said. “It means—”
“Yes, yes. Is it idiopathic or symptomatic?”
Renarin stood absolutely still in the darkness. “Uh . . .”
“Was it caused by a specific brain injury,” Kaladin asked, “or is it somethingthat just started happening for no reason?”
“I’ve had it since I was a kid.”
“How bad are the seizures?”
“They’re fine,” Renarin said quickly. “It’s not as bad as everyone says. It’s not like I fall to the ground or froth like everyone thinks. My arm will jerk
a few times, or I’ll twitch uncontrollably for a few moments.”
“You retain consciousness?”
“Yeah.”
“Myoclonic, probably,” Kaladin said. “You’ve been given bitterleaf to chew?”
“I . . . Yes. I don’t know if it helps. The jerking isn’t the whole problem. A lot of times, when it’s happening, I get really weak. Particularly along one side of my body.”
“Huh,” Kaladin said. “I suppose that could fit with the seizures. Have you ever had any persistent relaxation of the muscles, an inability to smile on one side of your face, for example?”
“No. How do you know these things? Aren’t you a soldier?”
“I know some field medicine.”
“Field medicine . . . for epilepsy?”

 

That's... a really incredible thing, to tell the truth, and it makes me feel very safe thinking about Kaladin spending time with and protecting Renarin. Yes, Kaladin. You can be trusted with him. In fact, I kinda trust you around him above just about anyone else. Shallan is not trustworthy right now and I will be on guard anytime those two have scenes together after this. Shallan could hurt him! She could be insensitive again! I've got to watch her carefully and be ready. Kaladin though? I can relax and just prepare for adorableness. He'll take care of my boy. He's got this.

 

For me, that's a ship. When I think "Okay, I want to see these two characters together on 'screen' because I know awesome wonderful cute things are going to happen between them. Kaladin and Renarin are in a scene together? Perfect. Let's do this." 

 

I mean, I guess you could say that my preferred ship is "People being kind to Renarin and understanding him." I'll appreciate any character who treats Renarin with the kind of excellent behavior that Kaladin showed towards him. And come on, he joined Bridge 4. How are you expecting me not to fall head over heels for that scene. It was the cutest thing ever. Like, really. I was crying the whole time. It was so sweet. In the competition of "How well did we treat Renarin during the events of WoR" Kaladin is in the lead by like a million, then probably Adolin and Dalinar, and then Shallan is dragging in ABSOLUTE LAST PLACE for right now, thanks.

 

Aaaand this was not supposed to be this long, but I'm guessing no one but me is surprised by this.

[Too Much Awesomeness]

I think they could make a great couple.  But the moment she called him creepy and weird I gave up any hope of them ever being together. 

 

One of the attributes of the Truthwatcher's Herald is confidence, so I definitely think Renarin will develop in that area in time.  Once he does, I fully expect BS to give him a romantic interest.  I just don't expect it to be Shallan anymore.   I can't think of any other current character that it might be though, so BS will probably just introduce a new one specifically for that purpose.  Kind of like he did for Spook in Mistborn. 

[FeatherWriter she/her]

I think Truthwatchers are order 5, actually. 'Palah'. So their attributes would be Learned/Giving. Just/Confident are the attributes of the Skybreakers actually!

[Too Much Awesomeness]

I think Truthwatchers are order 5, actually. 'Palah'. So their attributes would be Learned/Giving. Just/Confident are the attributes of the Skybreakers actually!

 

Then someone should correct this wiki entry, because Just and Confident are listed for Palah.  Wiki giving false information...not cool.  What am I supposed to trust in this world, if not wiki entries?

 

http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Herald

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Then someone should correct this wiki entry, because Just and Confident are listed for Palah.  Wiki giving false information...not cool.  What am I supposed to trust in this world, if not wiki entries?

 

http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Herald

 

Hehe... I would go with the coppermind wiki, it has the correct information on this.  It is the wiki that is actually partnered with the 17th Shard and it is awesome (not to mention significantly more reliable and accurate and all around better), you should all work on it!  All Hail the Coppermind!

 

WeiryWriter totally isn't biased about this...

 

And I still want Shallan and Renarin to ultimately end up together but I'm kind of glad it isn't working out well at this point?  Like I'm more interested in seeing Shallan grow and evolve and come to respect/like Renarin over a period of time.