Dearius he/him Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 I was reading up on lizards the other day. As many people know, some types of lizards can detach their tails. This form of self-amputation is called Autotomy. Now I do realize that Autonomy and Autotomy are two different words, but the practice of self-amputation is commonly done in order to distract predators and is a self-preservation technique. Due to the fact that the two words are rather similar it got me thinking about Autonomy and how it apparently does something rather similar. Also Autonomy could be a Dragon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 Yolen has a bunch of dragons, right? Yeah maybe one of the original vessels of the shards of adolnasium are indeed dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/32-arcanum-unbounded-fort-collins-signing/#e2571 There are non human shards. OB Spoiler Uli Da is a sho del, but I would bet money she is not the only non human vessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatikis he/him Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Dearius said: I was reading up on lizards the other day. As many people know, some types of lizards can detach their tails. This form of self-amputation is called Autotomy. Now I do realize that Autonomy and Autotomy are two different words, but the practice of self-amputation is commonly done in order to distract predators and is a self-preservation technique. Due to the fact that the two words are rather similar it got me thinking about Autonomy and how it apparently does something rather similar. Also Autonomy could be a Dragon. I wouldn't doubt that some of the shards are dragons. The Avatars of Autonomy don't appear to be dragons so I don't think it is literal self amputation. This means Autonomy doesn't have to be a dragon. The concept in general of distracting a predator could be interesting insight into how Autonomy works. If this is the case what predator does even Autonomy fear? Edited May 10, 2018 by Fatikis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) On the amputation thing and Autonomy, it's probably good to note that what Bavadin does isn't conceptually unique, though her way of going about it does seem unique so far. She's creating Splinters, which we know that any Shard can do. It's what Endowment does with the Divine Breath for example, or any of the spren on Roshar that were created after the arrival of the Shards (or unintentionally with the seon and skaze on Sel). What Bavadin is doing that we haven't seen other Shards do is intentionally create Splinters on other worlds and then leaving, Splinters with a high degree of sapience. We know that Investiture left on its own will eventually develop sapience and that how much Investiture determines how close the emergent entity is to human-level intelligence. Bavadin seems to be intentionally aiming for this result but it's theoretically something another Shard could do too. 14 hours ago, goody153 said: Yolen has a bunch of dragons, right? Yeah maybe one of the original vessels of the shards of adolnasium are indeed dragons. I'd say the odds of this are somewhere in the vicinity of 100%. We know at least one Vessel wasn't human and it would be surprising for Yolen to have three sapient races with one completely unrepresented at the Shattering. We also know that at least one dragon (Frost) was around back then, was aware of the Shattering and possibly present for it despite not becoming a Vessel. One can make a reasonable argument for Edgli and/or Bavadin being dragons. In the case of the former, her name stands out as being a bit unusual, though she's not alone among the Vessels. However, we also have evidence that the Nalthians have a word for 'dragon' in their language (Dedelin refers to the city of T'Telir as a 'dragon's nest') which raises eyebrows. Brandon has said that this is not a translation quirk and there's a reason they have that word, but declined to answer whether Edgli was a dragon. Then there's Bavadin, who has a couple points of interest. Most obviously, we're told by Brandon that we shouldn't get too hung up on the idea of gender where she's concerned. We know that Cosmere dragons are shape-shifters and we wouldn't be able to spot one if we saw one, so it's possible that human gender isn't an applicable concept and they can appear as whatever they want to. Doesn't mean Bavadin is a dragon, just an observation that might support it. Oh, and the same WoB that talked about Bavadin's gender also mentioned that we shouldn't get too hung up on human appearance. Obviously this could just mean that some of Bavadin's personas take nonhuman form without saying anything about Bavadin directly (ie, maybe some of her avatars are non-anthropomorphic) but it's another interesting point. So yeah, I feel very comfortable betting that at least one Vessel was a dragon and it may be one that we've already seen. And even if not, we've got six candidates to go. Edited May 10, 2018 by Weltall 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zath he/him Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 On 5/9/2018 at 7:13 PM, Dearius said: Also Autonomy could be a Dragon. I love how you just stuck this on the end. The rest of your post is talking about how Autonomy might use something like the Shard version of autotomy to create other Autonomy avatars, and then out of nowhere you're like, "Autonomy could be a dragon. Deal with it." Context is for wimps! Anyways. The whole Autonomy -- autotomy thing is an interesting theory, and I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be an apt analogy for how Autonomy creates her avatars. Of course, it'd probably be whole lot more complicated than simple self-amputation, what with all the wibbly-wobbly, Investiture-westiture stuff going on, but that's neither here nor there. Good theory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainKing Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 On 5/10/2018 at 1:07 PM, Weltall said: On the amputation thing and Autonomy, it's probably good to note that what Bavadin does isn't conceptually unique, though her way of going about it does seem unique so far. She's creating Splinters, which we know that any Shard can do. It's what Endowment does with the Divine Breath for example, or any of the spren on Roshar that were created after the arrival of the Shards (or unintentionally with the seon and skaze on Sel). What Bavadin is doing that we haven't seen other Shards do is intentionally create Splinters on other worlds and then leaving, Splinters with a high degree of sapience. We know that Investiture left on its own will eventually develop sapience and that how much Investiture determines how close the emergent entity is to human-level intelligence. Bavadin seems to be intentionally aiming for this result but it's theoretically something another Shard could do too. I'd say the odds of this are somewhere in the vicinity of 100%. We know at least one Vessel wasn't human and it would be surprising for Yolen to have three sapient races with one completely unrepresented at the Shattering. We also know that at least one dragon (Frost) was around back then, was aware of the Shattering and possibly present for it despite not becoming a Vessel. One can make a reasonable argument for Edgli and/or Bavadin being dragons. In the case of the former, her name stands out as being a bit unusual, though she's not alone among the Vessels. However, we also have evidence that the Nalthians have a word for 'dragon' in their language (Dedelin refers to the city of T'Telir as a 'dragon's nest') which raises eyebrows. Brandon has said that this is not a translation quirk and there's a reason they have that word, but declined to answer whether Edgli was a dragon. Then there's Bavadin, who has a couple points of interest. Most obviously, we're told by Brandon that we shouldn't get too hung up on the idea of gender where she's concerned. We know that Cosmere dragons are shape-shifters and we wouldn't be able to spot one if we saw one, so it's possible that human gender isn't an applicable concept and they can appear as whatever they want to. Doesn't mean Bavadin is a dragon, just an observation that might support it. Oh, and the same WoB that talked about Bavadin's gender also mentioned that we shouldn't get too hung up on human appearance. Obviously this could just mean that some of Bavadin's personas take nonhuman form without saying anything about Bavadin directly (ie, maybe some of her avatars are non-anthropomorphic) but it's another interesting point. So yeah, I feel very comfortable betting that at least one Vessel was a dragon and it may be one that we've already seen. And even if not, we've got six candidates to go. Well one of the avatars is an island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, MountainKing said: Well one of the avatars is an island. We don't know that Patji the island is necessarily the same thing as Patji the avatar of Autonomy; it could be a case of the former being named for the latter. The first thing that springs to mind is the island Maui being named for the god, even though the island itself isn't the god. Something similar could be at work here. Heck, with Bavadin literally creating entire pantheons, it's possible that every single island had an avatar associated with it, but Patji was the most powerful of them. Not sure why Autonomy would do that but it's an option. xD Brandon has called Patji 'a being' but that's obviously open to all sorts of interpretation. So this one's up in the air for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatikis he/him Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 I don't think Patji is just an island that is an avatar. It is a living creature that is also an Avatar of Autonomy. Similar to the islands on Roshar that are lived on. Just much large in size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainKing Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 I found this one Quote Yurisses [PENDING REVIEW] Investiture on First of the Sun is associated with a Shard? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes, it is. That one is even closer associated with a Shard, the actual Investiture of the magic. Remember when I say Investiture, I mean matter, energy and magic. Sometimes the word Investiture just to the magic such as the Aviar and in that it is associated directly with one of the Shards... Yurisses [PENDING REVIEW] Which one? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Patji is a Shard of Adonalsium. *silence* Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW] Sorry, can you say that again? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Patji is a Shard of Adonalsium Aurimus [PENDING REVIEW] Is that one of the Aviar? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] No that is the island. Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW] Island or islands? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] The island but Patji is one of the islands. Yurisses [PENDING REVIEW] It's a Shard?! Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes, big asterisk! But yes. Aurimus [PENDING REVIEW] Shard as in equal or Shard as in a mass of Investiture? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] As in one of the 16 Shards of Adonalsium is represented and involved in First of the Sun. In fact, one of the letters references First of the Sun in this *Indicates Oathbringer* Sorry, I probably killed some theories on that one. Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW] Yup, but by doing that you've confirmed some as well so it's fine! Footnote: The asterisk Brandon is referencing is that Patji is an avatar of Autonomy.source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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