[OB] Is Felt a Kandra?

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

17 minutes ago, RShara said:

It wouldn't take the kandra long to learn it. Reading up on TenSoon and OreSeur, they interrogate and study their would-be disguise very thoroughly.

Hemalurgical spikes or medallions makes sense. However, I do think that learning at least one new language, and least one new alien culture takes more work than interrogating someone incredibly thoroughly. So it might not be that easy. But I am leaning towards your side in this debate, that Felt isn't the kandra. And I also support the Mrall idea.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Toaster Retribution

[Fatikis he/him]

28 minutes ago, RShara said:

...No....Just..... no.

Anyway, Felt was around during TFE, and there's no way there was interbreeding during that time

In this era we had a Kandra working to help take down The Lord Ruler. If that is possible it is very much within the realm of possibility. Major houses had access to Kandra. I would be surprised if a taboo romance never happened.

I'm not saying this is what happened. Just that it is a possibility.

Quote

I think that Felt probably is special in that he is either Hemalurgically spiked or has a medallion that he is using to tap/store Connection. That would make others feel like he fits in with them, even when he doesn't quite. It would keep him from "standing out," exactly as Brandon says.

I agree that the most likely answer is that he is manipulating connection.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Fatikis

[RShara she/her]

5 minutes ago, Fatikis said:

In this era we had a Kandra working to help take down The Lord Ruler. If that is possible it is very much within the realm of possibility. Major houses had access to Kandra. I would be surprised if a taboo romance never happened.

I'm not saying this is what happened. Just that it is a possibility.

I agree that the most likely answer is that he is manipulating connection.

Romance, sure. Children, no.

15 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Hemalurgical spikes or medallions makes sense. However, I do think that learning at least one new language, and least one new alien culture takes more work than interrogating someone incredibly thoroughly. So it might not be that easy. But I am leaning towards your side in this debate, that Felt isn't the kandra. And I also support the Mrall idea.

Connection would allow them to know the language, too.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

The kandra are described in SoS as Harmony's eyes. It makes sense to me that he would send his agents to all of the Invested world's in the cosmere after ascending. 

Felt is a scout in Dalinar's army precisely at the time that they are pushing towards the heart of the shattered plains to find Urithiru and on the Eve of the Everstorm. He's also Dalinar's guide during the trip to the Nightwatcher and he had previously visited the valley before this trip. His advice to Dalinar also subtlety nudges Dalinar to seek the Nightwatcher the very night that they reach the valley.

Harmony is not the ruthless "the ends justify the means" kind of master that the Lord Ruler was, so torturing and killing a native Rosharan to have a kandra agent that is able to blend in perfectly wouldn't be a method that he Harmony would sanction. The worldhopper on Nalthis is described as a terris-woman, most likely because this was the body that his Nalthan kandra agent was using while she was still on Scadrial.

Another point in favor of this is the Atium. The Lord Ruler was incredibly secretive with the true purpose of the Atium opertation, and it seems very hard to believe that he would fail to have one of his most trusted servants in a position to monitor this operation from the inside.

If Felt is a kandra, his ability to learn the language could be aided by a blessing of potency.

One other point, I find it much harder to believe that Mrall, being alien to Roshar, could insinuate himself in such a high position within the Diagramatist's order. We know that on his brilliant days Taravangian can see with a prescience bordering on that granted by viewing the spiritual realm and that in the original diagram he was able to spot Hoid's (or possibly Mraize's) influence on the skein of unfolding events. It seems to me that Mrall the Kandra would be in serious danger of discovery during a brilliant day.

But, a kandra scout, in direct communication with the most powerful existent shard in the cosmere could rise quickly yet unobtrusively to a position of influence and have the freedom of mobility to be far ranging eyes for Harmony.

To address one final point that I've seen brought up to preclude Felt from being the Rosharan kandra, namely that Harmony's reply to Hoid's letter seems to imply that Harmony has little clue as to what is happening on Roshar is this, we don't know the timeline of when Hoid's letters were sent or when the replies were sent either.

These letters could be like Qwaan's confession, an artifact of the past narratively overlayed over current events. For all we know Hoid could have sent his letter to Harmony right after the Catacendra.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

3 hours ago, RShara said:

Connection would allow them to know the language, too.

How would the kandra gain that kind of Connection to Roshar/the Alethi?

[RShara she/her]

24 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

How would the kandra gain that kind of Connection to Roshar/the Alethi?

A Connection medallion would do it. Alternately, Sazed could have done something.

1 hour ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Felt is a scout in Dalinar's army precisely at the time that they are pushing towards the heart of the shattered plains to find Urithiru and on the Eve of the Everstorm. He's also Dalinar's guide during the trip to the Nightwatcher and he had previously visited the valley before this trip. His advice to Dalinar also subtlety nudges Dalinar to seek the Nightwatcher the very night that they reach the valley.

Yes, Felt is a scout, and definitely a worldhopper, and clearly adventurous. He's not around when Dalinar is making major decisions, when the Coalition meets, or anything like that, though. He gets some firsthand knowledge of exploratory discoveries, but has to reply on rumors and reports for all the political stuff. Not very effective.

 

1 hour ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Harmony is not the ruthless "the ends justify the means" kind of master that the Lord Ruler was, so torturing and killing a native Rosharan to have a kandra agent that is able to blend in perfectly wouldn't be a method that he Harmony would sanction. The worldhopper on Nalthis is described as a terris-woman, most likely because this was the body that his Nalthan kandra agent was using while she was still on Scadrial.

The kandra or Sazed wouldn't have had to torture or interrogate anyone. Depending on how far afield Sazed has managed, he could have gotten info about Roshar from Silverlight, or the Ghostbloods. The kandra would then be able to observe the chosen organization/role until they were confident enough to impersonate a native, dig up some bones, and go at it.

1 hour ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

The worldhopper on Nalthis is described as a terris-woman, most likely because this was the body that his Nalthan kandra agent was using while she was still on Scadrial.

Uh what? I have no idea what you mean by this? The Terriswoman on Nalthis is not a kandra. She's Asyldin, Demoux's wife that he met at the end of HoA, and is a member of the 17th Shard.

 

So to summarize:

1. Brandon has said Felt is the third son of a minor noble house. Not was, but is. If he had been killed and a kandra replaced him in TFE, Brandon wouldn't have given his lineage the way he did.

2. Felt's features do not match Rosharan standards. There's no reason for this if he's a kandra. Even if he had to keep his own face and existing bones for some odd reason, he could easily simply alter the eye shape a little bit, and then he'd be a short Rosharan.

3. A spy should not stand out, and Felt stands out, at least a little.

4. Felt is a scout, and thus is not around when most major decisions are made.

 

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

28 minutes ago, RShara said:

Uh what? I have no idea what you mean by this? The Terriswoman on Nalthis is not a kandra. She's Asyldin, Demoux's wife that he met at the end of HoA, and is a member of the 17th Shard.

Uhhmm, yeah. That's embarrassing, you're totally right, moving on....

28 minutes ago, RShara said:

1. Brandon has said Felt is the third son of a minor noble house. Not was, but is. If he had been killed and a kandra replaced him in TFE, Brandon wouldn't have given his lineage the way he did.

2. Felt's features do not match Rosharan standards. There's no reason for this if he's a kandra. Even if he had to keep his own face and existing bones for some odd reason, he could easily simply alter the eye shape a little bit, and then he'd be a short Rosharan.

3. A spy should not stand out, and Felt stands out, at least a little.

4. Felt is a scout, and thus is not around when most major decisions are made

These are good points, the first could be a semantic obfuscation, the animate corpse of someone is still technically that person, but that still is a very good point.

And the 4th point could be addressed by the fact that he maintains greater independence of action in his role as a scout.

You really do have me about 3/4 convinced that he's not a kandra, but Felt's role as spy master for house venture, the Lord Ruler's clandestime Atium operation operating through said house venture, his similar intelligence function for emperor Elend and then his role in a spy like capacity for Dalinar still constitutes a thematically linked and compelling thread. This thread can be explained by 2 possibilities: Either he's been a kandra in service of the prevailing power on Scadrial since MB era1, or is working for one of the Worldhopping secret societies, possibly due to his knowledge of the mercantile system that operated from Ruin's perpendicularity.

With his role as guide to the Valley, and with his presence at the Alethi court when Hoid was serving as the king's Wit, we can probably rule out the Seventeenth Shard. If he is a member of a secret society the most likely would be the Ghostbloods.

[RShara she/her]

Note that I'm not against his being an agent of Sazed (or someone). Just that he's not a kandra.

 

Also, that's a good point about Mrall. I don't insist on him being the kandra, just that he's always struck me as unusual. He's an accomplished bodyguard, he's close to the heart of the Diagram, but doesn't actively pursue it, he has no hair! and can turn his emotions on and off.

I mean, he would have joined after T's singular day of brilliance, and might have realized that such a day repeating is nearly impossible, and thought that the risk was worth it.

Or he's not the kandra

Edited May 7, 2018 by RShara

[Khyrindor he/him]

Just to jump in here, I agree that Felt is probably not a kandra, for most of the reasons @RShara said. But the point about Felt being a third son is pretty old; Brandon could have changed the canon since then. Still, I think the point about him not looking exactly Alethi and having the same body over 20 years would make me think he's not a kandra.

Mrall could totally be the kandra, but for some reason, I've never liked the idea. People asked after WoR if we've seen the kandra yet, and Brandon was unsure. It seems unlikely he'd be unsure given Mrall's somewhat significant role. Then, more recently, he said that we did see them in Oathbringer, where Mrall had a much smaller role.