Gyth Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Hello all. Long time stalker, new poster. I was listening to the beginning of chapter 14, the second time through, and a theory formed. Knowing what shardblades are, this scene seemed to be rich with foreshadowing. Adolin may be bonding with, and eventually reawaken, the dead spren that is his shardblade. The scene is of Adolin kneeling, with his summoned weapon, before his first duel to win shards. He shares a quiet moment with his "spren" and confides in it. He seems to honor and respect his blade. He knows a Radiant once held it, understands it once had a name. He doesn't know it's a spren, but still seems to have a bond with his weapon. He just doesn't know his bond may be reciprocal. Adolin confides in his shard. He personifies it and imparts an identity to it. Adolin could have been pouring life into his blade for years, growing the Nahel Bond with this spren trapped in it's tortured state of unending non-sentient pain. Maybe one day, very soon.... BOOM! Adolin has powers. Just a thought that I wanted to share. Thanks. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbauks Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I hope the spren is one of orders that Adolin can keep the oaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyth Posted March 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 That's another thing. There seems to be a lot misunderstanding concerning Adolin's actions near the end of the book. Sadeas was a scumbag. He had murdered thousands of Adolin's colleagues and friends with his betrayal at the end of book 1. He tried to murder Kaladin, and had succeeded with the murder of many others, through his callous use of bridges. He is working to destabilize the only force that can stop the storm that is coming. He deserved to die. I know there are many other Radiants that would do the same. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shallan88 Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 True, but doesn't that parallel Kaladin's struggle with ending Elhokar? He eventually realizes it's not his place to judge, but to protect -- Adolin just lost his cool. It all makes me think Nin is going to come after him. Something just doesn't feel right even though it might seem like Adolin was justified in his actions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PudgyNinja Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 That's another thing. There seems to be a lot misunderstanding concerning Adolin's actions near the end of the book. Sadeas was a scumbag. He had murdered thousands of Adolin's colleagues and friends with his betrayal at the end of book 1. He tried to murder Kaladin, and had succeeded with the murder of many others, through his callous use of bridges. He is working to destabilize the only force that can stop the storm that is coming. He deserved to die. I know there are many other Radiants that would do the same. I don't think anybody's misunderstanding anything. I agree that Sadeas is a horrible person. And for the purposes of this discussion, let's say that I agree that he deserved to die. That still doesn't mean that I think he should have been murdered in cold blood. And certainly not by Adolin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) There seems to be a lot misunderstanding concerning Adolin's actions near the end of the book. I disagree here. I don't think people like Sadeas or anything, it's just that most people who disagree with Adolin's actions have this thing against murder and like things to be honorable and official and legal when people are killed. Or at least, that's my impression from the thread I made on it. It really comes down to personal preference here. There's no understanding to be done here. (I agree with Adolin killing him incidentally. I wish Adolin had done it sooner.) That still doesn't mean that I think he should have been murdered in cold blood. Strictly speaking, Adolin did it in the heat of the moment and unplanned. So it was done in hot blood. Does that change things for you? Edited March 15, 2014 by Moogle 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Fiend Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Also, didn't something tell him to "Duck!" during the final battle at one point, mysteriously?If that's not a Spren looking out for him, then I'm not sure what it could be. (Only other option is Stormfather, really) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahak Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) I hope the spren is one of orders that Adolin can keep the oaths. The way his shardblade is describe at one point as forming like a set of vines makes me think of Wyndle. Since he's the only one of the Nahel spren we've seen that looks like vines. Which would presumably imply Edgedancer. That still doesn't mean that I think he should have been murdered in cold blood. And certainly not by Adolin. Adolin has wanted to kill Sadeas literally since the first sentance he was in back in chapter 12 of War of Kings. Edited March 15, 2014 by Dahak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbauks Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 That's another thing. There seems to be a lot misunderstanding concerning Adolin's actions near the end of the book. Sadeas was a scumbag. He had murdered thousands of Adolin's colleagues and friends with his betrayal at the end of book 1. He tried to murder Kaladin, and had succeeded with the murder of many others, through his callous use of bridges. He is working to destabilize the only force that can stop the storm that is coming. He deserved to die. I know there are many other Radiants that would do the same. Yes he deserved to die. There is no misunderstanding about that. The disagreement comes from the way the murder was committed. And that's really just about opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyth Posted March 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Would he even fit in any Order, other than the Skybreakers? I feel his murder was just. Nalan's concept of order may or may not. I imagine it would depend on how the spren associated with that Order would view his actions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolveryne Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 I think if there is any "confusion" its in the way the Knights Radiant worked. From what Brandon has said there is at least one order that would be 100% on board with what Adolin did. I don't think that all the Orders had the same philosophy when it came to how they saved the world. Also the Edgedancers and Dustbringers share a surge, so maybe the Dustbringer spren would be viney. I doubt it though as that seems closer to the Progression surge then the Abrasion surge(which is the shared one.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakesparda Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Brandon has said at one of the signings that the Skybreakers would have a real problem with what Adolin did. That he broke some laws and they would not be cool with this. He then went on to mention other Orders would applaud what he did and welcome him into their ranks. The person asking pressed to ask if the Dustbringers would be one such group. Brandon just smiled and half nodded. So its inferred as of right now if Adolin were to join an order it would be the Dustbringers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loganmathewjohnson Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 I think the biggest thing we have to look at have to look it is intent. When Adolin killed Sadeas, it was in a move of pure hatred and anger. It concerns me that he could end up being Odium's Champion- he is a duelist after all. That being said, I think it is most likely that Adolin will become a Dustbringer. My friends and I were theorizing exactly that this morning. So @drakesparda, it's good to hear of that half nod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakesparda Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) I didn't think of it as rage. If anything I saw it more as just cold. As something that needed to be done for the good of all. It just wasn't honorable or lawful. Like the calm rational of one life versus the thousands that could be lost. Disturbingly like Amaram actually... Also, Question about Adolin and the Dustbringers is mentioned in the thread: http://www.17thshard...ntris-spoliers/. Edited March 15, 2014 by drakesparda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatLine Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 True, but doesn't that parallel Kaladin's struggle with ending Elhokar? He eventually realizes it's not his place to judge, but to protect -- Adolin just lost his cool. It all makes me think Nin is going to come after him. Something just doesn't feel right even though it might seem like Adolin was justified in his actions. It isn't the same, Kaladin was going against the oaths of a windrunner. The same doesn't apply to Adolin. Also, didn't something tell him to "Duck!" during the final battle at one point, mysteriously? If that's not a Spren looking out for him, then I'm not sure what it could be. (Only other option is Stormfather, really) I'll have to reread it, but couldn't it have been Pattern coming to help out during the battle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Adolin took to Destination more than Journey. He could have warned Sadeas. He could have waited until their duel. He could have hired assassins. He did none of these things. He intentionally took it upon himself to end the most destabilizing factor in Alethekar, a man whose hands are black with blood. I say it quite often in real life. Right, wrong, and legal are different 3 different subjects. Ending Sadeas was right, but it wasn't legal, or entirely honorable for a 20 something year old warrior to jump a 50+ year old man. I still would have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Fiend Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 No, not just two pages before that Pattern is talking with Shallan at the Oathgate, and since this is all happening at the same time, it's pretty unlikely it was pattern. Adolin cursed and lunged for the assassin, but a fluttering tarp -- brushed by the assassin in passing -- leaped towards Adolin. The monster could command inanimate objects! Adolin sliced through the tarp and then just forward to swing for the assassin.He found nothing to fight.Duck.He threw himself to the ground as something passed over his head, the assassin flying through the air. Szeth's hissing Shardblade missed Adolin's head by inches.Adolin rolled and came to his knees, puffing.How... What could he do... ?You can't beat it, Adolin thought. Nothing can beat it.-pages 1023-1024, Hardcover edition. There is a big difference between Adolin's inner-thoughts, and that mysterious command to duck. The only similar phenomena we see is when Syl is talking to Kaladin directly via the mind. But then later on the page the in italics and not attributed to a voice or Adolin's inner thoughts are"Lead them, Adolin. Unite them."Which is pretty similar to what Honor has been telling Dalinar... so, I really have no idea. O.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatLine Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 No, not just two pages before that Pattern is talking with Shallan at the Oathgate, and since this is all happening at the same time, it's pretty unlikely it was pattern. There is a big difference between Adolin's inner-thoughts, and that mysterious command to duck. The only similar phenomena we see is when Syl is talking to Kaladin directly via the mind. But then later on the page the in italics and not attributed to a voice or Adolin's inner thoughts are "Lead them, Adolin. Unite them." Which is pretty similar to what Honor has been telling Dalinar... so, I really have no idea. O.o Oh ok. I swear somebody said that, that was during his last duel. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbauks Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 "Lead them, Adolin. Unite them." Those are the words Dalinar says to Adolin before he went off to fight Szeth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Fiend Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Those are the words Dalinar says to Adolin before he went off to fight Szeth. Oh yeah. So those words were probably just Adolin's thoughts. But that still doesn't account for whatever mysteriously told him to duck at the right exact moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinintendo Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) In another thread it was mentioned that if he is going to somehow revive his spren he would become Edgedancer since his blade of the type. Adolin summoned his Blade, then dismissed it, then summoned it again. A nervous habit. The white fog appeared—manifesting as little vines sprouting in the air—before snapping into the form of a Shardblade, which suddenly weighed down his hand. If he is going to become Dustbringer or something else he will get rid of his current blade. And summon and dismissing looks like CPR to me. Edited March 15, 2014 by shinintendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchSpren2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 I think I'd agree about his shard reawakening and bond to him... About the speculations about him going bad, I don't think so. Sure, he killed Sadeas but lets face it, all the Knights Radiant that we saw so far has dark secrets and troubled past. They all had killed somebody and they think what they did were the right thing. Kaladin killed Helaran for killing his friends. Shallan killed her mother because she attempted to kill her and she killed her father because he's destroying their family. Dalinar killed a lot of people to unite Alethkar under Gavilar. Jasnah killed those three criminals because she thinks what she did was right or just or whatever... and we accept them. Why cant we accept Adolin killing a certified scum like Sadeas because Sadeas is trying to destroy his father? About him becoming Odium's Champion, ok, that's possible... as possible as any character in the book becoming Odium's Champion. But really, I doubt it. After the things revealed during Taravangian's chapter that the Death Rattles and Thrill were manifestations of "gods" associated with Odium, I conclude that Adolin won't go bad. before his duel with Eshonai, the Thrill already left him and even during the duel the Thrill never returned. Also, I remembered one of Dalinar's vision of Nohadon saying, "Alas, not all spren are as discerning as honorspren.” So, killing Sadeas might be disturbing but that doesn't disqualify him from bonding a spren... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinintendo Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 I think most people don't think he will go BAD BAD I mean he won't go on a killing spree it's OOC, he will be misinformed or tricked into doing something unwise that will hurt in the long run. Maybe he will do good things but without normal morals of humans beings like Mr.T ideology, the end justified the means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjl Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 I'd definitely like Adolin to revive his sword, it seems pretty strongly foreshadowed, but we can't say it's certain. Him being radiant seems pushed by his attitude issues in the battle near the end, not getting the thrill etc. Hopefully this will happen in book 3 so we're not guessing for ages. Tbh the way things are going for humanity to survive I think they need large numbers if new radiants very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roarsach Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 I don't think anybody's misunderstanding anything. I agree that Sadeas is a horrible person. And for the purposes of this discussion, let's say that I agree that he deserved to die. That still doesn't mean that I think he should have been murdered in cold blood. And certainly not by Adolin. The fact that Adolin killed Sadeas was one of the best surprises in the book for me, i think it was a great thing to happen to this character, and will give him more depth in the next books. i do not think it will have this super negative impact on him witch makes him go "evil" Sadeas deserved to die, and buy killing him the way he did he probably ended up saving Dalinar, and 1000s of people. and people can argue all day that it was not honorable enough, but in the end killing aint, but it has to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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