Lift’s “blade”

[Rand al’Thorres]

Hi! First of all, sorry for my bad english.

I just read Edgedancer and i have a question that reading it I did not understand at all. 

The matter is that I thought that the Lift’s spren needed Lift to say the oath in order to become a shardblade. But she said the 2nd oath after the transformation.

Why Lift’s spren could transform himself? 

Thank you!

[The One Who Connects he/him]

1 hour ago, Rand al’Thorres said:

I just read Edgedancer and i have a question that reading it I did not understand at all. 

The matter is that I thought that the Lift’s spren needed Lift to say the oath in order to become a shardblade. But she said the 2nd oath after the transformation.

She actually says the 2nd Ideal during her Interlude in WoR. She says Ideal 3 in Edgedancer, which is the usual point where they get Shardblades.

If you are talking about the fact that she says the words out loud after Wyndle forms into a blade, she had spoken the ideal internally first. The Ideals are simplifications of the life they are going to live, and the key point of that isn't that they "say" the words so much as that they accept them and mean them.

(Sidenote: this would allow for a mute Radiant, which is a possibility that I'm honestly surprised we haven't asked Brandon about yet)

Edited April 14, 2018 by The One Who Connects

[Rand al’Thorres]

Thanks!!

It’s true, it was the 3rd ideal haha

sorry about the terms used ( as oath instead of ideal or about Wyndle), I read it in spanish and I don’t know the english terms at all...

[The One Who Connects he/him]

4 hours ago, Rand al’Thorres said:

sorry about the terms used ( as oath instead of ideal or about Wyndle), I read it in spanish and I don’t know the english terms at all...

No worries. I just figured you gave up on correctly spelling Wyndle and went with "her spren" As for Oath vs Ideal, they are both valid:

On 3/27/2018 at 11:57 AM, The One Who Connects said:

Near as I can tell, the words Oath and Ideal are synonymous in this case. The 2nd Ideal is an Oath, so to speak. The [Redacted] just spell it out more literally than others, as shown in the wiki: OB Spoilers(technically)

Spoiler

Quote

Ideals of the Skybreakers:
The second Ideal, also called the Ideal of Justice, is a specific oath to seek and administer justice.
The third Ideal, also called the Ideal of Dedication, is a specific oath to dedicate oneself to a greater truth.
    IV   
The final Ideal, called the Ideal of Law, this requires the Skybreaker to swear an oath that they will become a personification of law and truth.

Kaladin swears Oaths, but the Windrunner in the Gemstone Library talks about swearing their Fourth Ideal.

Ideals seem like the formal name for them, while Oaths seem like the layman's term.

If you're writing it and think it should be capitalized, use Ideal. Otherwise, Oath works just fine. It's just easier for me to use the same term throughout one post, for clarity's sake.

[Stark he/him]

On 4/13/2018 at 9:10 PM, The One Who Connects said:

for a mute Radiant

Oh geez.  Now I want to see this.  For oaths delivered by ASL.  Or more specifically, RSL.  But also for the Lift interactions.  She must listen to those who have been ignored, and those who cannot speak are often sidelined.  But how would she listen to someone who cannot speak.

 

Of course there are many ways to interpret listening, other than the literal.  But the dilemma of it all is just too funny to imagine Lift not being perplexed by it.

[teknopathetic he/him]

On 4/13/2018 at 7:10 PM, The One Who Connects said:

 

(Sidenote: this would allow for a mute Radiant, which is a possibility that I'm honestly surprised we haven't asked Brandon about yet)

I did ask this waaaaay back and he said you can have a lifelong-mute radiant. This actually surprised me because i thought sound and rhythm was necessary in the magic of Roshar, but I was wrong. 

Edited April 18, 2018 by teknopathetic

[Weltall]

6 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

I did ask this waaaaay back and he said you can have a lifelong-mute radiant. This actually surprised me because i thought sound and rhythm was necessary in the magic of Roshar, but I was wrong. 

Rhythm only appears to apply to the listeners, though that's not a fundamental part of the magic system and they can be 'heard' off Roshar, I thought that was interesting.

Brandon has also said that other magic systems with a strong sensory/ability component can be used by people who lack it. We know there's a way to do at least some Awakenng without being able to speak, we know that a blind person could still use the allomantic powers that have strong visual elements like steel or gold, he's even thought about dead Shardblade summoning if you didn't have a pulse. So having a Radiant who can't verbalize their oaths fits in nicely.

[teknopathetic he/him]

38 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Rhythm only appears to apply to the listeners, though that's not a fundamental part of the magic system and they can be 'heard' off Roshar, I thought that was interesting.

Brandon has also said that other magic systems with a strong sensory/ability component can be used by people who lack it. We know there's a way to do at least some Awakenng without being able to speak, we know that a blind person could still use the allomantic powers that have strong visual elements like steel or gold, he's even thought about dead Shardblade summoning if you didn't have a pulse. So having a Radiant who can't verbalize their oaths fits in nicely.

I thought, way back when we only had TWoK, the fact women wrote with sound-waves instead of letters was a clue, but it turns out they use soundwaves for an entirely different reason haha. 

[Stark he/him]

14 hours ago, Weltall said:

he's even thought about dead Shardblade summoning if you didn't have a pulse.

Oh geez.  Now I'm wondering about an Aimian bonded to a shardblade.  Ten heartbeats, right?  Well, an Aimian has how many hearts?  Can they essentially insta-summon a blade, as they could literally have a hundred or more heartbeats inside a second?  Or is it limited to the ten heartbeats of the hordeling that is in the anatomical location of the heart when they are in bipedal form?  What are the rules?

[Xtafa]

@Stark Im fairly sure the human heart beats is just a symbolism of their soul reaching and waking the spren. I feel Aimians would have a separate mechanic for how their soul reacts, unless they have as many souls as hearts, as opposed to a central 'soul' in the spiritual. 

[Dahak he/him]

On 18/04/2018 at 10:46 PM, Weltall said:

e's even thought about dead Shardblade summoning if you didn't have a pulse.

Other than Lifeless (who seem unlikely to be summoning shardblades), the only people I can think of having that option are Kandra. Who can also avoid breathing.

[Weltall]

3 hours ago, Dahak said:

Other than Lifeless (who seem unlikely to be summoning shardblades), the only people I can think of having that option are Kandra. Who can also avoid breathing.

Well, there's both types of Aimian who would need to use some other mechanism since their biologies are very different, the hypothetical situation that prompted the WoB might come up in some future character with an artificial heart and we have no clue what Sho Del and Dragons are like, for this purpose.

Whether any of these will be in a position to bond and summon dead Shardblades is another question, but it's the sort of thing Brandon is clearly thinking about. I imagine he'd even do it with no intention of putting it into practice, just as an intellectual exercise in making sure his summoning mechanic doesn't have any holes in it.

[Scion of the Mists]

On 4/18/2018 at 6:25 PM, teknopathetic said:

I thought, way back when we only had TWoK, the fact women wrote with sound-waves instead of letters was a clue, but it turns out they use soundwaves for an entirely different reason haha. 

What does this mean?  

[Draigon]

Look here.

There is an more up-to-date extension of this thread in the Oathbringer spoiler area if you want to pursue it further.