[OB] Jasnah's "lunacy"

[Hoids Imaginary Friend]

@Leyrann yes, not disputing that Jasna met her  "imaginary friend" on Daddy G's assassination.

But.. Imagine ( all the people..!)..

You are a child in a lightless room.. in trauma.. and an inkspren notices you..

Ask yourself:

1) do you see this inkspren?

2) does this inkspren see you?

What i was previously getting at.. and to expand..

Some rules of The Cosmere are Cosmere wide..

And one is:

1) you need cracks in your spirit for investiture to enter.

E.g. "you need trauma to embrace magic"

E.e.g. you need to snap to be awesome ** Mistborne vs Lift terminology **

And what i was getting at is that Gavilar was aware of this in some form, and horribly used this on his children. 

1. Jasna becoming an Elsecaller

2. Lil Bro E. In transition to be a lightweaver

Ask yourself: is there any presidence so far that more than one family member has the "Radiant" potential?

* M.p.s. dont get me started on Tien..  *

And then ask: so far as we know; what did Gavilar know?

Well we know Daddy G:

* wanted to bring back the Parsh "gods".

* has Witnessed Dalinars visions..

* to unite..

* to bring back the Radiants..!

..

I could go on..

I think we should think on this..

..

In relation to this thread..

..

And everything Cosmere related 

!~ HIF ~!

[Leyrann]

@Hoids Imaginary Friend

1. Timeline doesn't line up; Jasnah can't first have seen Ivory in that room if she was locked up because of displaying possible Radiant powers.

2. Cracks can happen in several different ways. Think of Shallan. She got her bond before all the bad stuff happened. Brandon has explicitly said once that extreme joy can in rare cases also be enough.

3. Just because you're broken doesn't mean there's a spren around that wants to bond you.

4. If Gavilar had been aware of the "being broken to get a spren" thing, why does no one else know, nor is it implied anywhere? I don't see why he would not tell Jasnah afterwards, for example, so he could actually know whether or not she attracted a spren. After all, your spirit web doesn't reforge itself; it remains broken even if you understand why everything happened that happened.

5. Brandon has told us previously that spren tend to group together (so they have a habit of bonding family members of those who already have a bond), which was a nice in-world explanation (familiarity, less risks) to allow for main characters that are related through family to become Radiants.

6. We have never heard of any form of abuse with Elhokar.

And there were a few more points but I got distracted while writing and forgot them.

[Hoids Imaginary Friend]

@Leyrann all good

1. I think you misunderstood. Im not saying she 1st saw him in that dark room or even suggesting she was locked up as her Radiant powers were manifesting. From what we know so far her 1st interaction with Ivory was on the night of daddies assasination. What I was getting at is even if Ivory was there Jasna would not of noticed him in this dark room due to his dark inky complection.. Not that im saying he was there, just that if he was I doubt she noticed.

2. Huh.. didnt know about that joy bit and Shallans initial bonding prior to her family trauma.. cool cool cool!

3. Agreed.. but it helps

4. Keep in mind this isnt Scadrial where deliberatley traumatising your children is considered normal. I personally dont see Gavilar admitting to Jasna it was intentional and why. At least not until she is old enough to understand. From our limited interactions he was always shown to be very thoughtfull (sept the battle'y bits). I imagine the king would have ample people and excuses to keep an eye on lil Jasna's "lunacy" .

5. Hmmm. I vaguely remember this comment on Radiant Spren grouping to pick Radiants.. I wonder if the "grouping" is across the board or just within individual Spren types. Jasna and Elohkar have (had) different Spren types. Was this distinction confirmed do we know?

6. Agreed, we have not heard of any abuse to lil E. Does not meen it didnt happen, though Ill admit my comments are speculation on what little we know.

Cheers

!~ HIF ~!

Edited April 18, 2018 by Hoids Imaginary Friend

[Wandering Investor]

Your soul needs to be open to investiture. Cracks are some of the most common ways for this to occur, but not the only. 

[dvoraen]

Something I want to comment about the source of Jasnah's "lunacy" is that there's the potential that someone else in the family did it; we don't know anything about Navani's relations or much about Gavilar and Dalinar's mother and father, for example.  There's one other matter that I haven't seen brought up in this thread which I think removes Navani as the potential "hurter":

Quote

"She wouldn't let me be a mother to her, Dalinar," Navani said, staring into the distance. "Do you know that? It was almost like...like once Jasnah climbed into adolescence, she no longer needed a mother. I would try to get close to her, and there was this coldness, like even being near me reminded her that she had once been a child. What happened to my little girl, so full of questions?"

-- Words of Radiance, p788hb

However, the fact that Jasnah seems to be the only one to remember her "childhood illness" leads me to believe that a potential third party is involved, and for me that would be either Cultivation (who we now know has been tampering with people) or one of the Unmade (who we know are quite capable of messing with your Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual aspects).  Given that Gavilar Kholin has been involved with the Sons of Honor for an unknown amount of time, and apparently found one of the Unmade, I would lean towards the spren he found as the likely cause.  The part I'm still dithering on is how Jasnah heavily implies she didn't really have a relationship with her father before he spoke of his expeditions.

There's an entirely different possibility as well: Taravangian's Day of the Diagram could have been a form of Cognitive tampering from the same source as Jasnah's lunacy.  Both went insane, but in completely different ways, and Taravangian could likely have been buffered from it by way of the Nightwatcher's (or Cultivation's!) adjusting him.

 

For me, I lean towards one of the Unmade.  For some reason, though, I'm squinting at Sja-anat, even though we haven't seen indications that she was loose in the past twenty-odd years (no "Enlightened" spren, which would undoubtedly be noteworthy).  She's called the Taker of Secrets, after all, so why not tamper with someone then remove everyone else's memory of it ("take the secret") so they won't remember the warning signs?  All of the Unmade have some relevance to precognition (I believe the Diagram has this correct), and it's not beyond reason that a sapient Unmade could put that to great use, especially if she really is trying to break from Odium and sees that Jasnah Kholin is her best bet at an escape vector.  (There's another factor for why I say this, which relates to Shallan, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.)

Edited April 21, 2018 by dvoraen