Stones Unhallowed

[grinachu]

There was an ambiguous, enigmatic reference in Words of Radiance to a powerful spren of stone in Shinovar that had kept the Desolations from returning for 4,500 years. I wanted to write up a theory, but I can't find the epigram or reference in WOR. Anyone remember a page number?

[Lomeon]

Chapter 83 Epigraph:

 

 

 

"Obviously they are fools The Desolation needs no usher It can and will sit where it wishes and the signs are obvious that the spren anticipate it doing so soon The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia"

 

It seems obvious that "The Ancient of Stones" refers to Talenel, Herald patron of the Stonewards, whose sole, vigilant perseverance in damnation prevented a desolation for 4.5 millennia.

[Luke.spence]

Ok, so we can take from that, that the time between Desolations was based on how long the Heralds could withstand their torture on Rayse. Maybe part of the reason for the 9 other Heralds walking away was that at least some of them were weaker than Taln. Maybe once the first Herald broke, that was the end of the torture, and Taln was one of the strongest. By leaving him alone to withstand the torture, it bought humanity more time than if all the weaker Heralds were being tortured as well.

[Edgedancer he/him]

Ok, so we can take from that, that the time between Desolations was based on how long the Heralds could withstand their torture on Rayse. Maybe part of the reason for the 9 other Heralds walking away was that at least some of them were weaker than Taln. Maybe once the first Herald broke, that was the end of the torture, and Taln was one of the strongest. By leaving him alone to withstand the torture, it bought humanity more time than if all the weaker Heralds were being tortured as well.

If that was their reason they still could have trained humanity. Given that they just disappeared I think it is safe to say that their decision was utterly selfish.

[Luke.spence]

If that was their reason they still could have trained humanity. Given that they just disappeared I think it is safe to say that their decision was utterly selfish.

 

I wasn't saying that it was a self-less decision. They still made the choice out of fear. Plus, they couldn't be sure beforehand that Taln (being one of the stronger Heralds) would be the one to die. They made the choice right after that battle, completely out of fear, not truly pre-meditated. It just worked out well for them.

[tigvsben]

Ok, so we can take from that, that the time between Desolations was based on how long the Heralds could withstand their torture on Rayse. Maybe part of the reason for the 9 other Heralds walking away was that at least some of them were weaker than Taln. Maybe once the first Herald broke, that was the end of the torture, and Taln was one of the strongest. By leaving him alone to withstand the torture, it bought humanity more time than if all the weaker Heralds were being tortured as well.

 

In support of this, Jezrien seems to think it is at least a possibility that they won't be lying when they say the Desolations are over even as they abandon the Oathpact.  It clearly isn't their primary concern as they abandon their duty, but something about the situation at least allowed the chance, however small, that they'd truly broken the cycle.  This could refer to the possibility that Taln's will could single-handedly withstand the torture indefinitely.

[Natans he/him]

All praise to Taln he man are true hero.  I really hope that him get better the dude deserve some kind of happiness after what he did for mankind.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Natans

[grinachu]

All praise to Taln he man are true hero.  I really hope that him get better the dude deserve some kind of happiness after what he did for mankind.

 

 

I think that Jezrien was affected by Odium or by one of the Unmade in his decision to end the Oathpact and abandon Taln. I also think this decision was such a violation of his divine duties that he basically lost his ability to function. 

 

"“Better that one man should suffer than ten,” Jezrien whispered. He seemed so cold. Like a shadow caused by heat and light falling on someone honorable and true, casting this black imitation behind" (Way of Kings prelude) 

[Maximus]

I wonder if Stone Shamanism stemmed from the knowledge that The Ancient of Stones, Taln, Stonesinew was the only thing standing in the way of the next desolation, along with a belief that hurting stone somehow harmed him.

[Veil she/her]

I wonder if Stone Shamanism stemmed from the knowledge that The Ancient of Stones, Taln, Stonesinew was the only thing standing in the way of the next desolation, along with a belief that hurting stone somehow harmed him.

 

Possible, but if that's the case, the doctrine seems to have strayed quite a bit since then. From chapter 88 of WoR:

 

 

"My gods are the spirits of the stones," Szeth whispered. "The sun and the stars. Not men."

 

"Nonsense. Your people revere the spren of stone, but you do not worship them."

 

Could just be me, but it seems like Stone Shamanism is related more to nature spren than the Heralds. Which is really interesting, since spren don't seem to be present/active in Shinovar, but the Shin do possess most of the Honorblades. I suppose it fits. In the rest of Roshar, spren are too commonplace to be seen as divine, while the Heralds are ancient and mysterious. Not saying Taln doesn't have something to do with Stone Shamanism, but he doesn't fully explain it. (What little we know at this point.)

Edited March 13, 2014 by Veil