Trickonometry Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 (The *Spoiler* tag is really just there to make sure no one feels like they need to censor themselves if they have a point to make.) Okay, the idea of this thread is to look at each order, what their powers are, and what we might expect from them based on their powers and the numbers they are associated with on "The Ten Essences and Their Historical Associations" in the WoR Ars Arcanum. A quick note; I included the primary and secondary Divine Attributes that correspond with each surge, not just what number they are as an order; I think you may find it to be quite appropriate as you read through. Windrunners Surges: Adhesion/Gravitation Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Protecting/Leading & Just/Confident Skybreakers Surges: Gravitation/Division Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Just/Confident & Brave/Obedient Dustbringers/Releasers Surges: Division/Abrasion Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Brave/Obedient & Loving/Healing Edgedancers Surges: Abrasion/Progression Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Loving/Healing & Learned/Giving Truthwatchers Surges: Progression/Illumination Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Learned/Giving & Creative/Honest Lightweavers Surges: Illumination/Transformation Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Creative/Honest & Wise/Careful Elsecallers Surges: Transformation/Transportation Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Wise/Careful & Resolute/Builder Willshapers Surges: Transportation/Cohesion Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Resolute/Builder & Dependable/Resourceful Stonewarden(/Stone Shaman?) Surges: Cohesion/Tension Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Dependable/Resourceful & Pious/Guiding Bondsmiths Surges: Tension/Adhesion Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes: Pious/Guiding & Protecting/Leading I'm going to come back and edit to include more details and commentary on each order, mostly because it's a pain to be doing all this from an iPhone, but an important realization after going through all of this is how much each of the characters we've seen from each order perfectly exemplify the Primary/Secondary Divine Attributes of not just ONE essence but of BOTH essences that are associated with the surges they manifest. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 So something I never noticed until seeing them all laid out like this: Each surge seems to have one of the divine attributes tied to it. Is it possible that the Order who has the surge's Divine Attribute as their primary gets greater access to that surge? For example Windrunners and Skybreakers both have Gravity as one of their surges. Windrunners have Just/Confident as a minor divine attribute, while Skybreakers have it as the greater. Gravity seems to be tied to that attribute. So would Skybreakers end up with greater access to Gravity? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickonometry Posted March 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) Edit: It's frustrating when I accidentally submit when I'm just trying to type on an iPhone... Edited March 9, 2014 by Trickonometry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaconis Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Where are you getting that each order has two sets of divine attributes? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickonometry Posted March 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 So something I never noticed until seeing them all laid out like this: Each surge seems to have one of the divine attributes tied to it. Is it possible that the Order who has the surge's Divine Attribute as their primary gets greater access to that surge? For example Windrunners and Skybreakers both have Gravity as one of their surges. Windrunners have Just/Confident as a minor divine attribute, while Skybreakers have it as the greater. Gravity seems to be tied to that attribute. So would Skybreakers end up with greater access to Gravity? I've thought about this, and I think that as far as the powers go, in general I don't think they will function any differently. However, I do believe we may see some orders gain conscious use of their "primary" surge quicker. We have evidence of this, too - we see Kaladin sticking The Lopen to the wall and making spears stick together before he figures out how to fly. Also, in Ym's chapter we see a Truthwatcher with healing down, but he is just starting to notice the little light spren, which seems to indicate Illumination. Shallan is am exception in that she Soulcast a couple times before she took on Illumination, but even that supports this theory because she picked up on her Illumination powers MUCH quicker, whereas on her second time consciously Soulcasting she had... less than desirable results ("I... am a stick.") And note that I say CONSCIOUSLY - Kaladin obviously uses Reverse Bindings several times before he becomes an official Radiant and before he is even aware that he is a Surgebinder, for instance. But it seems like there is a Primary and a Secondary nature to the surges of each order, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickonometry Posted March 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Where are you getting that each order has two sets of divine attributes? I believe that the Divine Attributes are derived from the surges. I got which surge is associated with each Essence by simply taking the list on the second page of the Ars Arcanum and slapping them next to the chart on the first page. There isn't a single example that doesn't seem to be verified by characters, hence my high levels of certainty regarding this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickonometry Posted March 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 To go a little more on Seerow's comment, I am open to the aesthetic appearance differing, even if the actual function doesn't change. For instance, I could imagine the appearance of Abrasion for a Dustbringer/Releaser may look different than the "vine" we get with Lift. This may be dependent on the type of spren tied to an order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edvarin Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) Thank you! I've been looking for something like this! I should probably put this list I made of current and potential Radiants and their orders here. Known: Windrunners=Kaladin Lightweavers=Shallan Bondsmith=Dalinar Truthwatcher=Renarin Elsecaller=Jasnah Edgedancer=Lift Skybreaker=Szeth My theories of who the other 3 will be. Stoneward=I think Rock for this one. No real reason, just a lot of small details. He's a really good person, even exemplifies the orders attriutes of resolve, strength and depedability. He has a similar build and looks like Taln, who heads the order. He might even end up saving Taln from Amaram. And basically I just don't want all of Bridge Four to be Kal's squires Also, it could be someone Szeth will meet in Shinover in book 3. A Stone Shaman. Willshaper=This will be controversial I'm sure, but I think this will be the Parshendi General and Shardbearer, Eshonai. I don't think the fall after her fight with Adolin killed her. On the back of WoR it names her the Explorer, along with people we know are Radiants. Also, in the chapter heading in part 3, where it talks about the Radiant Orders in the chapter headings, ch 50, it says they had little in common except for a general love of adventure, novelty and oddity. This is how she describes herself before the war. Also, another one of the chapter headings from the book of Listeners basically says straight out that a Bond with normal spren is possible for them. I saw hints of this in a few places throughout the book. Releaser=As for the last...I actually think that Adolin will revive the spren of his Shardblade and become one. I put him here because it was the only one left Edited March 9, 2014 by Edvarin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIT Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 For potential Willshapers one name keeps popping up in my head... Elhokar. He has a seemingly innate connection to Shadesmar. He is a terrible leader but one who tries. He wants to build a strong nation. I think going from being a bad king to being a Surge enhanced amazing public speaker would be an awesome story to tell. The temptation to bend others to your will. The doubt that people only follow you because of your power... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranstang94 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I actually see Adolin as becoming a Skybreaker. One they seem to have an innate ability to see when someone is guilty (from the Words of Radiance reference about Skybreakers one pre-chapter text that I can't find now.) Adolin did call both Sadis and Amaram "Eels" without knowing why. felt that it was just to lock himself up until Kalidin was released, etc. To Adolin it seems that justice is more important than almost anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIT Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I actually see Adolin as becoming a Skybreaker. One they seem to have an innate ability to see when someone is guilty (from the Words of Radiance reference about Skybreakers one pre-chapter text that I can't find now.) Adolin did call both Sadis and Amaram "Eels" without knowing why. felt that it was just to lock himself up until Kalidin was released, etc. To Adolin it seems that justice is more important than almost anything. That theory has since been shot down by Brandon during the Seattle Signing apparently. Skybreakers won't have him because he broke a law. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranstang94 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Oh well! so much for my wonderful and shinning theory. once more destroyed by truth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edvarin Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Plus the Herald of Skybreakers basically said he was making Szeth one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricree Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Assuming that's even something he can do. The heralds may have led the Radiants, but the spren created them, and it takes a spren bond to become one. So far, Szeth hasn't shown any sign of that. I'm in agreement with those that expect to see a "true" skybreaker before long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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