[OB] why voidspren seem to break rules

[jaddeth below she/her]

I just noticed that Ulim and that yellow white spren Kaladin talked to seem to be smarter in the Physical Realm than both Pattern and Syl were. Why do they not seem stupid or lose memories on Roshar? Ulim even had memories that went far back to the Desolations so he could tell Venli the forms. While the other yellow spren seem smart enough in the Physical Realm to command the newly awakened parshmen armies even without the Fused's help? Are there separate rules for voidspren or are honorspren etc just plan dumb?

[RShara she/her]

Presumably, Odium created them differently than H+C created the Radiant spren.  Different investitures manifest in different ways.  Seons and Skaze are essentially Selish spren (say that 3 times fast) and they are sapient without a bond.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

There's a theory that the Everstorm is a Perpendicularity, and that crossing over through one of those as opposed to "the normal way" lets them keep their minds more intact.

Could also be the type of Spren, since Sapient vs Subspren is a thing

Edited February 6, 2018 by The One Who Connects

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

21 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

There's a theory that the Everstorm is a Perpendicularity, and that crossing over through one of those as opposed to "the normal way" lets them keep their minds more intact.

That doesn't work when Ulim had been with Venli helping her find the forms long before the Everstorm came. 

This actually bothers me, since voidspren seem "maxed" both on the physical and cognitive realm, as we see on Shadesmar. I don't understand why if it is possible to make spren cognizant in all realms H and C would make their spren dumb in the physical world without a human to bond with. It cannot be to force the KR to appear, as it almost seemed like KR were an accident in happenstance when spren copied what H did for the Honorpact.

[Strifelover]

26 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

That doesn't work when Ulim had been with Venli helping her find the forms long before the Everstorm came. 

This actually bothers me, since voidspren seem "maxed" both on the physical and cognitive realm, as we see on Shadesmar. I don't understand why if it is possible to make spren cognizant in all realms H and C would make their spren dumb in the physical world without a human to bond with. It cannot be to force the KR to appear, as it almost seemed like KR were an accident in happenstance when spren copied what H did for the Honorpact.

Why do the Spren of Honor and Cultivation have to be identical to the Spren of Odium? Spren are all just splinters, and we've seen splinters from other worlds that are perfectly intelligent in the physical realm. That Voidspren and the H/C Spren offer similar powers to the singers or humans that they bond with almost certainly has more to do with how the fundamental surges manifest on Roshar, not because splinters of Odium and Honor/Cultivation created splinters in exactly the same way.

If you want some more practical speculation, maybe different Spren require different amounts of investiture in order to create them. We don't specifically know how many spren there are of H/C vs. Odium, but it's entirely possible that having Spren of varying levels of sapience and especially in the physical realm allows H/C to create far more of them. We see TONS of Spren of H/C that aren't intelligent whatsoever in either the physical or cognitive realms, all of the non-sapient ones, so they must have other reasons for creating Spren the way they do besides just maximum intelligence.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Strifelover

[Wandering Investor]

The shards aren't limitless. Pretty close from a human perspective, but not infinite. So when H&C originally made the spren they might have been fine with them just working in the cognitive realm. Or the spren might have naturally developed that way. When Odium came along he probably made less spren, but also made them able to operate on their own. 

[DocHoliday he/him]

The OP is working off the wrong premise. H+C had NOTHING to do with the Nahel-Bond.

The Spren did it by themselves.

They're sapient Cognitive entities I.e. they belong in the Cognitive Realm, and thus lose something in the crossing.

We have no idea if the voidspren were designed as splinters/ bonded to listeners, if they're simply recycled souls, or pure Investiture. We just dont know for sure what the mechanics involved are. There is the distinct possibility that Odium engineered them, or by Shardic power moved them, to bypass that effect.

Personally, I think Odium is using Listener Souls he has stapled Surges to. Ulim the Emissary IMO is a true Spren that hasn't left the Physical Realm in a looooong time. He's had time to watch, listen, and learn without "trauma".