Argent he/him Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Shalash is described as quite attractive during The Way of Kings, and the masked woman seems to be so disfigured, her flesh is growing around the mask. Since there is no indication that she has her Honorblade, and she didn't notice the poorly woven Veil illusion when Shallan was doing her thing with the note in the tree, I doubt our masked lady is Shalash.
Trevalion Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Answering Grinachu about motivation, the Heralds may want to pursue right goals in ways familiar to them, but they are broken in shame and self-hate. They migrate to arenas and jobs that fit them before, trying to do something meaningful, but they can't bring themselves to take up their old work as before, they despise themselves too much. And so I think you're on to something, Odium would do all he could to fuel that self hate and in their broken actions and rationalizations, doing the opposite of their purpose, they worsen their self-hate in a downward spiral. 1
Devo Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Can someone point me to how we know the art vandal is Shalash? And specifically how we know she is destroying images of herself? I think in that interlude she is destroying a whole bunch of unrelated art, so destroying art in general makes as much sense as saying that she's specifically destroying images of herself.
Wileygirl13 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Anyone remember which herald statue was missing from the hall when Szeth killed the king in wok? I always wondered if Gavilar used that black gem stone thingy to revive one of the heralds. That sphere he gave to Szeth stating "they mustn't have it". All we know about the sphere is that Szeth hid it in the city after the assignation. I was thinking that Nalan used that weird sphere or one like it to revive Szeth. Edited March 12, 2014 by Wileygirl13 1
Argent he/him Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Can someone point me to how we know the art vandal is Shalash? And specifically how we know she is destroying images of herself? I think in that interlude she is destroying a whole bunch of unrelated art, so destroying art in general makes as much sense as saying that she's specifically destroying images of herself. Shalash's statue missing from Gavilar's palace. Multiple pieces of art with a female Herald missing throughout both books. Fits the first half of the profile from the TWoK Chapter 55: “A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal.” Shalash was confirmed by Brandon to be Jezrien's (who, regardless of whether he is actually connected to the Stormfather is often associated with him) daughter. At this point we've all grown accustomed to treating Baxil's mistress as Shalash, so I don't even remember all evidence behind it...
grinachu Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Answering Grinachu about motivation, the Heralds may want to pursue right goals in ways familiar to them, but they are broken in shame and self-hate. They migrate to arenas and jobs that fit them before, trying to do something meaningful, but they can't bring themselves to take up their old work as before, they despise themselves too much. And so I think you're on to something, Odium would do all he could to fuel that self hate and in their broken actions and rationalizations, doing the opposite of their purpose, they worsen their self-hate in a downward spiral. If so, we should look for the remaining Heralds in places of familiarity to their nature. I predict Ishar will be in the Vorin church or an ardent because piety is an attribute of his. Battar is wise. so maybe Battar is at the Kharbanthian library and/or was behind the fake history in Words of Radiance? One of themes of Mistborn is undoubtedly the unreliability of in-world sources of knowledge. I think the contemporary knowledge of the Recreance is wrong, and those Knights who gave up plate and shard were actually the last Knights to follow their vows.
Mysty she/her Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Can someone point me to how we know the art vandal is Shalash? And specifically how we know she is destroying images of herself? I think in that interlude she is destroying a whole bunch of unrelated art, so destroying art in general makes as much sense as saying that she's specifically destroying images of herself.I got Brandon to admit the vandal was destroying images of Shallash, but he rafoed if she actually was Shallash.http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4273-portland-steelheart-signing/
taxilian he/him Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 If so, we should look for the remaining Heralds in places of familiarity to their nature. I predict Ishar will be in the Vorin church or an ardent because piety is an attribute of his. Battar is wise. so maybe Battar is at the Kharbanthian library and/or was behind the fake history in Words of Radiance? One of themes of Mistborn is undoubtedly the unreliability of in-world sources of knowledge. I think the contemporary knowledge of the Recreance is wrong, and those Knights who gave up plate and shard were actually the last Knights to follow their vows. If the knights who gave up plate and shard were following their vows then the blades at the very least would not have "died". We dont' know for sure what shardplate is, though I suspect it's in some way related to the blade, but we know for sure that blades are dead spren. If the vows were kept, the spren wouldn't be dead, therefore they wouldn't still be around as dead shardblades.
Trevalion Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Brandon could just be teasing us with this suggestion of Palah from chapter 33 in WoK when Shallan sees a woman walking though the Palanaeum, "Lit that way -- with her figure hidden but the light streaming between the shelves -- it looked as if one of the Heralds themselves were walking through the stacks." 1
Neveticus Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Indeed. Szeth briefly entertains the possibility it might be Jezrien. Interestingly there is another of the Heralds (in addition to Nalan) present at the feast. We know from Jasnah's POV, that they are talking about Ash ("Shallash") getting worse, and how they are not supposed to get worse. It is a male voice and the description doesn't match the portraits of Ishi so I have to assume it's Kalak. So our knowledge of the heralds is as follows.... 1. Jezrien- was last seen as a drunkard/madman in Alethkar for the feast. 2. Nalan - leading the Skybreakers, seeking to prevent the Desolation from returning (although he failed in this), encouraging Szeth to destroy the Stone Shamanate for reasons we cannot infer yet. 3. Kalak - last seen in Alethkar in the company of Nalan, presumed allied or friendly with Nalan. 4. Talenel- In company of Amaram, off to hunt Honorblades. Tortured into insanity. 5. Shallash- destroying all visual representations of herself. Could Shallash destroying a representation of herself be related to measuring a recording the size of spren to define and limit their shape?
Argent he/him Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Maybe, but I find it highly unlikely. It's right next door to impossible.
grinachu Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Brandon could just be teasing us with this suggestion of Palah from chapter 33 in WoK when Shallan sees a woman walking though the Palanaeum, "Lit that way -- with her figure hidden but the light streaming between the shelves -- it looked as if one of the Heralds themselves were walking through the stacks." I doubt it. I think you are on to something. I had originally thought the Heralds would stay distant from each other, but Jezrien, Nalan and (we assume) Kalak were all in the same place on the same night. Perhaps the Heralds do cluster together. 1
Isomere Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 The masked woman being Shallash intrigues me. Destroying depictions of herself and wearing a mask could both be symptoms of the same root problem. Some kind of identiy conflict? That would fit very well with a Lightweaver who can create and shed identities like Wayne swapping hats.
grinachu Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Incidentally if the Almighty had a spren because he was an idea in the cognitive realm, surely the Heralds (who were equally worshipped in Vorinism) had a spren as well? 1
Trevalion Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Herald spren, wow, these almost have to exist after multiple millennia of thought and devotion. Can't remember any odd spren who would fit though, unless Cusicesh, who takes something from the people watching them when he records their faces, such as what Shallan does when she takes a memory of them, is a Spren with a capital S of Shallash. Don't see the ocean connection though.
grinachu Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Herald spren, wow, these almost have to exist after multiple millennia of thought and devotion. Can't remember any odd spren who would fit though, unless Cusicesh, who takes something from the people watching them when he records their faces, such as what Shallan does when she takes a memory of them, is a Spren with a capital S of Shallash. Don't see the ocean connection though. In principle there should also be Cultivation spren (Nightwatcher?) and Odium Spren. Since we know the Unmade are Spren, maybe they are the spren of the Parshendi equivalent of the Heralds? That is unless the Stormfather only came into independent existence after Tanavast's death. Oh to be able to ask Brandon to clarify....
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