musing [OB] Is Diplomatic Immunity the reason there are so many Kholin radiants?

[digitalbusker]

Something @Isilel said over in the Nale's Story Arc thread--about Nale not being able to kill Gavilar directly (assuming that's a thing he wanted to do) because there's no way he could get local legal permission to do that--got me thinking.

Are there so many Radiant Kholins because the Alethi legal system couldn't generate a document that would allow their execution without alerting somebody whose last name is Kholin?

[Vortaan]

9 minutes ago, digitalbusker said:

Something @Isilel said over in the Nale's Story Arc thread--about Nale not being able to kill Gavilar directly (assuming that's a thing he wanted to do) because there's no way he could get local legal permission to do that--got me thinking.

Are there so many Radiant Kholins because the Alethi legal system couldn't generate a document that would allow their execution without alerting somebody whose last name is Kholin?

Renarin was hiding his abilities, Dalinar just became one at the end of Words of Radiance, Gavilar doesn't seem to have completed a bond, and Jasnah is pretty good at misdirection. I think by the time Nale would have turned his eyes towards the Kholins, he had other things to worry about.

[Weltall]

That could be a possibility but it's also at least as possible that none of the Kholins have done anything that would allow Nale to legally execute them. Well, except for Dalinar, pretty sure that wouldn't be hard to make a case for but he's got other things that keep him out of the Skybreakers' grasp. But Renarin doesn't seem likely to have done anything that would give Nale the opening he needs (also, by the time he started surgebinding it was probably too late for Nale to notice and react) and Jasnah might be the same. She must have been on his radar given her use of a soulcaster; he may not know she's actually a surgebinder but she was high-profile about having one so she must have caught Nale's attention sooner or later. But the one thing we know she's done that might be grounds for an arrest and execution warrant is also noted to be justified by almost all the ethical systems she has Shallan research and since the 'crime' was committed in Kharbranth, Nale would need local permission to carry out a sentence. It's unlikely Taravangian would allow that; it was legal self-defense and even if it wasn't, I'm fairly certain he doesn't want to incur the immediate displeasure and attention of the Alethi royal family while he's still setting up all the pieces of his Diagram Master Plan. Elhokar you could get on the very deaths that actually got him killed, except that there's not much evidence he had a Nahel Bond until after the point that Nale's Surgebinder Murder Party became moot, so he probably never came to the Skybreaker's attention.

[Isilel]

2 hours ago, digitalbusker said:

Are there so many Radiant Kholins because the Alethi legal system couldn't generate a document that would allow their execution without alerting somebody whose last name is Kholin?

I think that Jasnah's survival was definitely due to her station, as according to the Ghostblood missive Nale has some unknown way of learning about and tracking  general locations of nascent Radiants. His actions in Yeddaw support this theory - when he came, he knew that there was a surge-binder there, but not who. He may also be able to sense investiture when he is face to face with somebody. Jasnah's alleged acquisition of a mysterious soulcaster  would have been an immediate red flag to him and she also had repeated incidents with her shadow pointing the wrong way, some of them in public, prior to her first meeting with Ivory in Shadesmar, which is shown in WoR prologue. In fact, when they ran into each other during the fateful feast, Nale reacted thusly:

"The Azish man, the one dressed in black and silver, stopped and looked her up and down. He frowned."

And then he kept standing there and staring at her until Kalak dragged  him off. I bet that he knew then and there that Jasnah was becoming a surge-binder, but, thankfully, couldn't touch her due to his psychosis. Directly, at least. Indirectly - well, Jasnah survived a lot of assassination attempts and who knows how her vendetta with the Ghostbloods came about.

As to the other Kholin surge-binders and Kaladin, once he came under their protection - it could have played a role. We don't know how long they spent in the initial stages of bonding - this could differ a lot on individual basis. Not to mention that we don't know at what point that would have put them on Nale's radar.

I guess we'll see if any other non-Skybreaker Radiant who has been around as long as Jasnah or, at least, longer than Our Heroes appears. I mean, Shallan has had a bond as long as or even a little longer than Jasnah, technically, but she is a special case as it was supressed almost to the point of breaking after her mother's death, which luckily got her off the radar. Also, her father made her wear an aluminium necklace, which may have helped, too.  

[recneps]

On 1/27/2018 at 1:27 PM, Isilel said:

And then he kept standing there and staring at her until Kalak dragged  him off. I bet that he knew then and there that Jasnah was becoming a surge-binder, but, thankfully, couldn't touch her due to his psychosis. Directly, at least. Indirectly - well, Jasnah survived a lot of assassination attempts and who knows how her vendetta with the Ghostbloods came about

I have a very hard time imagining the Skybreakers using assassins.

[Isilel]

16 hours ago, recneps said:

I have a very hard time imagining the Skybreakers using assassins.

No, they wouldn't use assassins - that is, they wouldn't hire them. But, as seen with young Shallan, if their target had no criminal past, the Skybreakers _would_ try to convince other people to kill a nascent surge-binder instead. Or, if my suspicion that the "eliminated"  proto-Radiant in Amaram's army was Tien is correct, would manoeuvre such a person into a situation where they were likely to get killed. Thus it is entirely possible that Jasnah was manipulated into conflict with the Ghostbloods (or vice versa) in the hopes that they would kill her. 

After all, even if the "brokenness" requirement for the Nahel bond exists (which is a matter of some debate), it wouldn't necessarily, or even mostly stem from a crime that the Skybreakers could conveniently spin into a death warrant. Many/most of their targets likely were law-abiding citizens and some would have been too highly placed to be accountable to the law (like Jasnah).

Edited January 29, 2018 by Isilel

[Calderis]

There are three reasons we know why there are so many Kholin Radiants. 

First, spren are interested in people with the power to effect change. We've seen them watching Elhokar and Taravangian, both kings. 

Second, they are are unconsciously drawn more heavily to Alethkar, both for it being the kingdom that maintained the arts of war through the Radiants, and for it being at the forefront of events I  the first two book. 

Quote

Questioner

Why are there so many Kholins that are Radiants?  

Brandon Sanderson

There is a story reason, kind of. So the Kholin family is in Alethkar, which was the hereditary...one of the homes of the Knights Radiant.  It’s still kind of in the forefront of the, how shall we say, collective unconscious and things like this.  Plus there’s...  

Questioner

And then they are on the forefront of that.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. I mean... yeah. And so the spren, some of them are naturally looking for where a lot of Radiants used to be. So it’s just a higher concentration of spren around the area, if that makes sense?

source

Third, being connected to a Radiant means you are more likely to draw the attention of a spren yourself. 

Quote

Questioner

Is being a Knight Radiant at all genetic? Because you have Jasnah, Dalinar, and Renarin in the same family.

Brandon Sanderson

It is not genetic, however… Um… Families or people close to one another are more likely. It’s not genetic. So for instance, if everyone were adopted it would still have the same prevalence.

Questioner

Okay, fascinating!

Questioner

[interruption hard to hear]

Brandon Sanderson

Well, there are a couple of reasons for that. One is which, attracting the attention of a spren can mean that other spren are paying attention to that area. There are also things in the Cosmere (the shared universe of them) where people are connected spiritually. Um… and that’s part of the magic as well. So… You are more likely to become a Radiant if you know a Radiant.

source

The three of these things together make the Kholins a natural focus of spren activity. 

The legalities of Alethkar probably helped protect burgeoning Kholin Radiants from the Skybreakers, but it has nothing to do with them being Radiants in the first place. 

Edited January 29, 2018 by Calderis

[Subvisual Haze]

Yeah, I think there's a couple factors at work.

Stormfather was given leave to choose who to deliver Honor's visions to (and set on the path to potential Bondsmith).  At the same time he kind of resented the duty (due to past events in the Recreance).  I think he choose Gavilar almost out of default.  Gavilar was the King of the nation that was once Radiant central.  Kind of the natural choice for a Bondsmith (leader) if you're not putting much thought or effort into it.  Renarin, Elhokar and Jashnah's spren were likely drawn to them partially out of association, having a family member with a proto-Radiant bond made them just that much more "noticeable" to available spren.  They still had to express certain characteristics to attract specific spren and progress in their bond, but being emotionally close to another bonded individual made them that more more noticeable to spren shopping for bonding partners.  Sort of like how Honorspren have started to flock to Bridge 4.

I do think the functional immunity to Skybreaker justice also played an indirect part though.  Like maybe it didn't directly factor into spren's decision making process, but it narrowed the field of non-Kholin candidates.  When the people ahead of our Kholin's were chosen for a bond and were quickly killed off, it just narrowed the odds to better to favor the Kholins.