Leyrann Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 Very easily disproven if there's a WoB saying that it happened on Yolen, but it's on neither the Shattering page of the coppermind nor the Yolen page, so I'm just gonna create a thread for it. The theory ties in to my Fundamental Surges theory, which says that the Surges are not only considered the fundamental forces by Vorinism, but actually are fundamental, like gravity, electromagnetism, etc are in our world. Anyways, the idea is this. The Shattering didn't actually happen on Yolen (even though the Shardholders were from Yolen) but rather on Ashyn. This is the cataclysm that basically destroyed Ashyn and forced the humans living there to Roshar. It would also explain why the Surges are accessible in the Rosharan system and not on other places - some big stuff happened here and it changed the accessibility of the Surges. Or - even more crackpot (I came up with this while writing this post) - Ashyn IS Yolen.
The One Who Connects he/him Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Leyrann said: Very easily disproven if there's a WoB saying that it happened on Yolen, So, get used to workarounds, rather than direct answers. 10 minutes ago, Leyrann said: The Shattering didn't actually happen on Yolen (even though the Shardholders were from Yolen) but rather on Ashyn. Dragonsteel takes place on Yolen. The Shattering takes place during Dragonsteel. Quote Questioner Will there be possibly any books which play on Yolen? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, the Dragonsteel books will be on Yolen. And it's possible that Yolen will be involved later on Quote Brandon Sanderson This is, this is totally possible. But you have to remember this is pre-Shattering of Adonalsium. Dragonsteel is the story of the Shattering of Adonalsium... the whole book is before, the whole series... So there are lots of things going on there that are-- like you will-- yeah. But it’s not canon yet. Make your assumptions. 6 minutes ago, Leyrann said: Ashyn IS Yolen. Humans did not come to Roshar from Yolen. Humans are implied to have come to Roshar from Ashyn. Quote Argent Wait, hold up. How can "soil" be a holdover from an earlier time if Roshar was always a rocky place? Or did you mean that it's one of those words that carried over from Yolish, or whatever other language people spoke before they migrated to Roshar (like "hound")? Brandon Sanderson It is similar to hound, which is one of the ones that Hoid pointed out as an oddity. But people did not migrate from Yolen to Roshar. Roshar was inhabited before the shattering of Adonalsium. Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] A friend of mine wanted me to ask: Was the cataclysm that rocked Ashyn and forced its inhabitants into the flying cities Investiture-based, and if it was was it Shardic in nature? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] The same cataclysm that the-- did you finish [Oathbringer]? Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Yes. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]The same cataclysm that they were fleeing, that they caused, is the one that forced people into the skies... Put them together and see what comes of it. 6
Leyrann Posted January 21, 2018 Author Posted January 21, 2018 Eh, it was a fun theory while it lasted.
Llarimar he/him Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 8 hours ago, Leyrann said: Eh, it was a fun theory while it lasted. I still think it's an interesting idea. Just reading your original post I thought it was really intriguing (until... of course, I read the barrage of WoBs from @The One Who Connects that disproved it). There may be some information we can glean from connecting Yolen and Ashyn though - for one thing their names are similar, and that might mean something (although probably not). The Heralds on Roshar have tons of different names based on the culture they're from, so I could conceivably see Ashyn being a permutation of the name Yolen. In addition there seem to be interesting connections between Yolen and the Rosharan system - for one thing, Rosharan variety of Lightweaving being the closest to the "Yolish original" as Khriss says. And also, the shard of Odium is in the Rosharan system, which may mean that if nothing else, Roshar has a closer proximity to Yolen than some other systems, because I can imagine Odium picking a world close to home and all the other Shards scattering away in fear of him (though that's just speculation). I think it will be interesting to learn what happened to Yolen after the Shattering. Did any of the Shards remain there? I think that the identity/nature/location of Yolen may very well be a surprise to readers, even if it doesn't relate to Ashyn.
RShara she/her Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 Sorry, how are the names Yolen and Ashyn similar? Also, in Arcanum Unbounded, Khriss is able to observe and write about Ashyn, whereas she hasn't been able to locate/reach Yolen.
Llarimar he/him Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, RShara said: Sorry, how are the names Yolen and Ashyn similar? Yol-in, Ash-in They... sort of rhyme (assuming the second syllable is pronounced the same). Not really though, I knew that was far-fetched when I wrote it.
RShara she/her Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 lol okay Though I pronounce it Yoh-len, and Ash-in with a tiny, slight y sound before the i sound in Ashyn. I would never pronounce an e anything like an i or a y
Llarimar he/him Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 This is why we need the International Phonetic Alphabet! (You'll notice I recently changed my rank to Linguist-spren).
Isilel Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 14 hours ago, Leyrann said: This is the cataclysm that basically destroyed Ashyn and forced the humans living there to Roshar. So, I think that when Odium came to Rosharan system he tried to set up shop on Ashyn intially - that's why the planet has a Perpendicularity. Honor and Cultivation fought him there through their agents and managed to boot him out and imprison him on Braize. Dawnshards were used to accomplish it and devastation of Ashyn was the collateral damage of this battle. This is why Honor and Cultivation welcomed Ashyn refuges to Roshar - the Shards owed them. And possibly that's why Honor continued backing their descendants - though I suspect that independent influx of humans from other worlds and resultant misunderstandings played an important part in the clash between humans and singers that led to Odium getting his mitts on the souls of furious singer dead and starting a cycle of Desolation.
Leyrann Posted January 22, 2018 Author Posted January 22, 2018 37 minutes ago, Isilel said: So, I think that when Odium came to Rosharan system he tried to set up shop on Ashyn intially - that's why the planet has a Perpendicularity. Honor and Cultivation fought him there through their agents and managed to boot him out and imprison him on Braize. Dawnshards were used to accomplish it and devastation of Ashyn was the collateral damage of this battle. This is why Honor and Cultivation welcomed Ashyn refuges to Roshar - the Shards owed them. And possibly that's why Honor continued backing their descendants - though I suspect that independent influx of humans from other worlds and resultant misunderstandings played an important part in the clash between humans and singers that led to Odium getting his mitts on the souls of furious singer dead and starting a cycle of Desolation. Does Ashyn have a perpendicularity? I'm pretty sure we don't know anything about that.
StormingTexan he/him Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 17 hours ago, The One Who Connects said: Brandon Sanderson It is similar to hound, which is one of the ones that Hoid pointed out as an oddity. But people did not migrate from Yolen to Roshar. Roshar was inhabited before the shattering of Adonalsium. While we are on the topic this is what confuses me about the Dawnchant translation. It reads like humans were new to Roshar at the time of Odium arriving but if the above is true than they were not. Unless "people" and "inhabited" in the above does not refer to Humans.
RShara she/her Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, StormingTexan said: While we are on the topic this is what confuses me about the Dawnchant translation. It reads like humans were new to Roshar at the time of Odium arriving but if the above is true than they were not. Unless "people" and "inhabited" in the above does not refer to Humans. People definitely does not always refer to humans. But in this case, I think those are separate statements. People did not go from Yolen to roshar. And Roshar was inhabited before the Shattering. Edited January 22, 2018 by RShara
StormingTexan he/him Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, RShara said: People definitely does not always refer to humans. But in this case, I think those are separate statements. People did not go from Yolen to roshar. And Roshar was inhabited before the Shattering. Ok that makes sense. I know most of the WoB are transcribed so it is tough sometimes to know if the transcriber puts in punctuation as it was meant or by their own interpretation of where it should be. As two separate sentences it makes sense they are separate statements. Helps a lot though with the new Arcanum when there is audio.
The One Who Connects he/him Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) On 1/21/2018 at 11:41 PM, Llarimar said: I can imagine Odium picking a world close to home If he did have a "home-base," so to speak, he didn't spend much time there. Investing on a world could bind him to it, and that Investment can happen even if he doesn't intend too. Quote Argent Which is a nice segue to Shards Investing into Shardworlds, that I've been meaning to ask. So is it kind of a passive-- The more a Shard stays on a world-- Brandon Sanderson Yes. Argent --the Investiture kind of seeps-- Brandon Sanderson It does. Once you've got a Perpendicularity, you are starting-- That's trouble for going other places. But you've gotta remember, going other places means multiple things to someone actually holding a Shard. They can exist in the Spiritual Realm, where all things are one. And they can even kind of comprehend it... On 1/22/2018 at 8:26 AM, StormingTexan said: Unless "people" and "inhabited" in the above does not refer to Humans. Yea, there are some assumptions people make because it makes sense in the real world(I'm just as guilty of this), but aren't necessarily true. Just to help clear up the issue, more roundabout WoBs : Quote Argent Wait, hold up. How can "soil" be a holdover from an earlier time if Roshar was always a rocky place? Or did you mean that it's one of those words that carried over from Yolish, or whatever other language people spoke before they migrated to Roshar (like "hound")? Brandon Sanderson It is similar to hound, which is one of the ones that Hoid pointed out as an oddity. But people did not migrate from Yolen to Roshar. Roshar was inhabited before the shattering of Adonalsium. Quote HorseCannon I didn't realize horneaters had parshmen blood, didn't even realize that was possible. How closely are humans and parshmen related, do they have a common ancestor? Or is one an artificially created version of the other? Brandon Sanderson There was intermixing long ago. Horneaters and Herdazians are both a result. (Signs of this are the stone carapace on Herdazian fingernails and the Horneater extra jaw pieces--in the back of the mouth--for breaking shells.) Humans and Parshmen don't have a common ancestor. And as a side note, both of these strains of humanoids predate the ascension of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium. The Humans on Roshar can trace their history further back than the Shattering. The Humans on Roshar did not go from Yolen to Roshar. The First WoB does not preclude the possibility that Rosharan Humans are ultimately from Yolen, with multiple stops along the way. Merely that people did not go directly from Yolen to Roshar. Edited January 23, 2018 by The One Who Connects forgot primary WoB
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