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[OB] The Heralds... and their replacements


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Hi all, new to the forums and figured I'd make a post having finished the books. Apologies if this has already been discussed!

Does anyone else get the impression that ever since the Heralds have gone mad in rather specific ways and doing a complete 180 of their previous characters (Jez becoming a beggar and avoiding protecting and leading men, Ash destroying all art featuring her whilst being the artistic herald, Taln becoming cowardly in battle, Nalan deserting the law to pursue his own goals, Ishar deciding to start wars to divide men, Battar killing people rather than caring for them), that the 'new' main characters are being set up to take their place?

- Kaladin is a natural soldier and after escaping being a slave, became leader of Bridge 4 and relished keeping his men alive (may have something to do with his 4th Ideal not being sworn as he's going to have to accept that under his leadership his men may die and he can't accept that so far), making him a great replacement for Jezrien in terms of protecting and leading as the head of the Windrunners once he gets past the wretch that is his depression.

- Shallan is an incredible artist and consummate liar - once she accepts the truths about herself properly, she's being set up to become the new Herald of Creativity and Honesty and lead the Lightweavers.

- Dalinar has been a broken man, but thanks to the Bondsmith path he's on now, he's due to become the new Herald of Piousness and Guidance once he discovers Adonalsium properly.

- Szeth started out being unjust and doubting his existence in the books, and has slowly become just and confident in himself, making him an ideal Herald for Justness and Confidence. Really cannot wait to see the upcoming fight between him and Nale (because we all know it's going to happen)

- Renarin I think will end up something different due to his spren being corrupted, as otherwise he's already pretty learned and gives of himself a lot, so there's not much in the way of progression for him to Heraldom.

- Jasnah already has wisdom and needs to relearn to care properly to end up leading the Elsecallers as the Herald of Wisdom and Care.

- Lift, like Renarin, doesn't have much in terms of progressing towards Heraldom as she's not as broken as the other main characters, so I can't see her advancing too much towards it.

- Taln may end up overcoming his insanity and retake his place as the patron of the Stonewards, but I can potentially see Kadash taking up that position if he doesn't, assuming he survives long enough as he's dependable, resourceful and very stubborn as well.

The other orders don't have too much information on, so there's not much I can extrapolate on at this point in time. Maybe another book or two may change that. But does anyone have any thoughts so far?

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Welcome!  Have a cookie! :D


It's an interesting idea that has been proposed a few times.  The biggest problem I see with it is that it's proven the Oathpact doesn't work, due to human frailty.  So there isn't really a good reason to renew it with different people.  A better solution needs to be found.

Edited by RShara
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We have 10 "Prime" Radiants, the 10 people who met at the breach in the wall at Thaylen city, who heard Dalinar issue new orders to his Radiants.

Windrunner - Kaladin

Skybreaker - Szeth

Dustbringer - Ash

Edgedancer - Lift

Truthwatcher - Renarin

Lightweaver - Shallan

Elsecaller - Jasnah

Willshaper - Venli

Stoneward - Taln

Bondsmith - Dalinar

These are also our ten focus characters for the flashbacks and possibly ten new Heralds.

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I think that we are wrong in assuming that there will be new Heralds.  As was pointed out earlier, the Oathpact doesn't work.  Instead I think that there will be 10 new Champions of Honor, individuals directly connected to Honor, but not bound to the Oathpact.  I would propose the following individuals for these roles:

Kaladin (replacing Jezrien)

Szeth  (replacing Nale)

Lift (replacing Vedel)

Shallan  (replacing Shalash)

Jasnah (replacing Battar)

Venli (replacing Kalak)


Navani (replacing Ishar)

Shalash (replacing Chanarach)

Renarin (replacing Pailiah)

Questionable: Shalash, Shallan, Renarin, Venli

So where is Dalinar?  He has replaced Honor and is supplying the Champions with Investiture directly.

Crazy theory,  I know, but that's where my head is at.


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I think there is a sense of the new ten "heroes" are the new Heralds in that they will lead and train humanity to face a new desolation.  Great thoughts @Gladiator3003 on how the Heralds attributes are shown by them (and welcome!). I am not convinced that it is possible for 9 Heralds to take up the old Heralds side of the oathpact- because they abandoned it. But maybe one of our heroes- to give humanity time to prepare for a final show down- might take Taln's place in Braize.

My guess is Renarin or Dalinar. 

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1 hour ago, MonsterMetroid said:

While I like this theory have we had any proof that she joined them?

It's speculation that she will join them as she's one of the back five flashback characters and all the other orders are fairly accounted for. 

Edited by Spoolofwhool
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On 1/19/2018 at 3:40 PM, MonsterMetroid said:

While I like this theory have we had any proof that she joined them?

23 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

It's speculation that she will join them as she's one of the back five flashback characters and all the other orders are fairly accounted for. 

Also, it just makes sense that the Herald of beauty and creativity who now destroys works of art will instead become a Radiant of destruction. 



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