Kaladin in WoR

[JcStoneDog]

What do you think of his overall story arch?

 

 

I understand the need for the 'Two steps forward one step back' character growth of Kalaidn. It allowed for some important realizations and dealt with a lot of his remaining issues from WoK. I just hope we don't see it again in the next book as his character was not fun to read in the middle part of this book. I loved his interaction with Shallan and how she put him in his place.

[Aniki he/him]

Overall, I did enjoy his arc in the book, but there was a point that bothered me.

What he did after the arena duel. The act of challenging Amaram right then seemed a bit too immature for his character.

An excuse might be made that it was right after the heat of battle and he wasn't thinking clearly, but yeah.

Aside from that, I'm glad he finally showed us his 'witty' (for want of a less used word) side that he hinted he got from his mother. It was a nice changeover from his deary self in the first book and parts of the second.

I noticed he's also started to smile and went as far as grinning in the chasm chapters. I suppose we have Shallan to thank for both of these.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Diagram

[Awesomeness Summoned he/him]

@Diagram... if you go back and read through the parts where shallan and Adolin are coming up with the idea of using the king's boon to call out Sadeas, Kal thinks several times about how it could be his chance as well (implying calling out Amaram). So he had prepared for the possibility. It wasn't a completely in the moment decision.

 

Some people have mentioned that it seemed like the third ideal was too similar to the second by I disagree. Saying you are going to protect the defenseless and saying you will protect people you hate as long as its the right thing to do is a pretty important distinction. The windrunners are protectors, not judge and jury, so it's important that they explicitly acknowledge everyone is worthy of their protection, not just people they like. 

 

While i didn't enjoy watching Kal descend back into full on emo Kal, learning to let go of his vengeance and hate that had been buidling since WoK was important to his character development so it didn't bother me even though it was somewhat similar to his arc in WoK

 

The Kaladin/shallan scenes were some of the best in the book. As good as the verbal sparing was, what I liked most was the musings by Kal about how she can still be happy and enjoy life despite the hardships she endured. He made excuses the whole book about how he had good reasons to be ad dour as he was and Shallan just being herself rips those argument to pieces. 

Edited March 6, 2014 by Awesomeness Summoned

[Aleksiel]

I liked Kal's story. Though it felt wrong for him to agree with the plan against Elhokar. I like how he handled being in prison, I was afraid that would destroy everything he had with Dalinar.

 

I am really confused by one thing and will be grateful if someone can explain it to me. How did Kaladin kill Syl in that moment when he fell into the chasm? He was actually protecting (or at leat trying to prevent an assassination attempt), yet she screamed in pain and died. Yeah, he has some selfish motives for protecting Dalinar, but what, he can't protect someone when that benefits him in a way?

 

His... hmm... feeling towards Shallan however felt somewhat out of place. Yes, he needs love and I hope he finds a girl in future books, but the whole episode of seeing Shallan suddenly beautiful was not really enjoyable for me. I hope this doesn't turn into a love triangle. 

Edited March 6, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Aniki he/him]

I liked Kal's story. Though it felt wrong for him to agree with the plan against Elhokar. I like how he handled being in prison, I was afraid that would destroy everything he had with Dalinar.

I am really confused by one thing and will be grateful if someone can explain it to me. How did Kaladin kill Syl in that moment when he fell into the chasm? He was actually protecting (or at leat trying to prevent an assassination attempt), yet she screamed in pain and died. Yeah, he has some selfish motives for protecting Dalinar, but what, he can't protect someone when that benefits him in a way?

His... hmm... feeling towards Shallan however felt somewhat out of place. Yes, he needs love and I hope he finds a girl in future books, but the whole episode of seeing Shallan suddenly beautiful was not really enjoyable for me. I hope this doesn't turn into a love triangle.

I think Syl screaming was more towards the fact that she couldn't help him as he fell towards his near certain death, since he couldn't utilize stormlight at that point.

About Shallan, I think it's about him liking her personality more than her looks. He states that she reminds him of Tien in that she's fascinated by the world around her. I don't think the development was sudden at all. As you said, I really wouldn't like a love triangle. But at this point the Kaladin/Shallan pairing seems more natural than the Adolin/Shallan one.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Diagram

[Aleksiel]

I think Syl screaming was more towards the fact that she couldn't help him as he fell towards his near certain death, since he couldn't utilize stormlight at that point.

About Shallan, I think it's about him liking her personality more than her looks. He states that she reminds her of Tien in that she's fascinated by the world around her. I don't think the development was sudden at all.

 

I certainly hope it doesn't, but don't forget she also reminded him of his mom. They could be bros, though even this feels weird. I expected them to not really get along, but it works for now. Their interactions were overall really funny.

 

 I think that was the exact moment Syl dies, because he doesn't see her from then until the third Ideal. So, I really need more to this, what exactly happened in that moment that damaged their bond so badly? Why then and not before?

[Azul he/him]

 

 I think that was the exact moment Syl dies, because he doesn't see her from then until the third Ideal. So, I really need more to this, what exactly happened in that moment that damaged their bond so badly? Why then and not before?

 

I think its because he forced drawing in stormlight when his bond to Syl was so weak, stealing something he did not have a right to at the moment.

 

 

Kaladin thrashed for the Stormlight. He would not die this way! The sky was his! The winds were his. The chasms were his.

He would not!

Syl screamed, a terrified, painful sound that vibrated Kaladin’s very bones. In that moment, he got a breath of Stormlight, life itself.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Azul

[Oxus]

I think its because he forced drawing in stormlight when his bond to Syl was so weak, stealing something he did not have a right to at the moment.

 That's how I read it as well.  Either Kaladin's forced use of stormlight broke Syl, or Syl died as her last act to save Kaladin from his fall.

 

Honestly,  I found Kaladin's constant gloom off-putting.  He went through an entire character arc in WoK, and finally learned to trust Lighteyes, only to fall completely back into his old ways and completely ignore Syl? I understand what Brandon was doing, but it was a tough read.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Oxus

[JcStoneDog]

I think its because he forced drawing in stormlight when his bond to Syl was so weak, stealing something he did not have a right to at the moment.

 

 

Great catch, which could make the KR real killers as they not only broke/abandoned their oaths but then knowingly drew in stromlight killing their spern.

[junior]

He went through an entire character arc in WoK, and finally learned to trust Lighteyes

 

Not really.  Remember that even after Dalinar frees him, he thinks about the possibility of whether Dalinar is merely another Amaram.

[Aleksiel]

I think its because he forced drawing in stormlight when his bond to Syl was so weak, stealing something he did not have a right to at the moment.

 

Yet she said he killed her when he forsake his oaths and didn't mention stormlight at all.

 

 

I was only as dead as your oaths, Kaladin

Edited March 6, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Oxus]

Not really.  Remember that even after Dalinar frees him, he thinks about the possibility of whether Dalinar is merely another Amaram.

 

Dalinar freed him and set him on a path towards trust.  I knew going into WoR that Kaladin's new found "road to trust" would be tested, but I didn't expect it to take him 1000 pages to resolve that.

[Natans he/him]

He made some dumb choices all the Moash case are infuriating, come on why give a shard to someone that wanted kill someone that you need protect ? He had other bridgeman for example Rock that deserved much more. 

 

Shallan and Kaladin was a curve ball to me, but to be true I think that them had  pretty nice interection.

 

Shallan give Kal a hard time and smacked him good in the head with some trues that he need listen. In true she gived him muchhhhhh more that she received from him. He are ready for die for her, but he would die for anyone in that situation it's kind his way of be. He openned up with her after she told her that he aren't the only person to suffer, I kind relate with that. For the other she related with him becasue she are kind like her and she didb't judge her or tired to stop her she let her be.

 

Probaly their will have some kind of flirt, Sanderson already prepared one reason to them fight (her brother death) if she forgive her they could be a thing. Sanderson also prepared a love rival so this will get spice, the I already can see the ship war forming with team kal and team adolin let wait and see.

 

In true the better parts of the book ( and in many Brandon books) are the fact that you can relate with the character and their lives given the way that them act and think, it make some things look very real. For tthe othe side some things look a litthe odd but overall the interction are one of the strong parts of the book =)

[Aleksiel]

Dalinar freed him and set him on a path towards trust.  I knew going into WoR that Kaladin's new found "road to trust" would be tested, but I didn't expect it to take him 1000 pages to resolve that.

 

I really don't think he resolved all his trust issues, just those with Dalinar. 

[Guest Shash]

What do you think of his overall story arch?

I understand the need for the 'Two steps forward one step back' character growth of Kalaidn. It allowed for some important realizations and dealt with a lot of his remaining issues from WoK. I just hope we don't see it again in the next book as his character was not fun to read in the middle part of this book. I loved his interaction with Shallan and how she put him in his place.

Kaladin's inner struggle, as much as I dislike his whining about it, was important to the plot. It's deeper than a personal conflict - it shows us that all Surgebinders are susceptible to manipulation by Odium. The cracks in a soul can be filled with Honor and/or Cultivation and grant access to the magic of Roshar...but if Honor and Cultivation can take root inside a person, so can Odium.

Just look at how the Parshendi's Rhythms changed. Anticipation became Craving. All the Rhythms took on a darker side.

When Shallan called Kaladin an "odious man" it was like a huge red flag. Any time the word Odium is used in any of its forms, pay close attention.

[dhazellouise she/her]

I think Kaladin became dark because of Odium's influence. Odium probably used Kaladin's hatred towards Amaram and the other lighteyes so that Kaladin will make a terrible decision and make him loose his powers.

 

I think Odium also influence Adolin into killing Sadeas because of Adolin's hatred. Adolin was on his way to becoming a Knight Radiant (it was evident when he started to feel disgust while he slaughtered the chanting parshendi.) I think Adolin will turned darker in the third book because of his recent actions.

 

I also suspect that Odium would start influencing Shallan as well into hating Kaladin since Kaladin murdered Helaran...

 

When the Knight Radiants feel hatred towards someone, I think they will become open to Odium's influence. Like Ruin influencing the protagonists in Mistborn triology..

[TwistedMisting she/her]

I think Kaladin became dark because of Odium's influence. Odium probably used Kaladin's hatred towards Amaram and the other lighteyes so that Kaladin will make a terrible decision and make him loose his powers.

 

I think Odium also influence Adolin into killing Sadeas because of Adolin's hatred. Adolin was on his way to becoming a Knight Radiant (it was evident when he started to feel disgust while he slaughtered the chanting parshendi.) I think Adolin will turned darker in the third book because of his recent actions.

 

I also suspect that Odium would start influencing Shallan as well into hating Kaladin since Kaladin murdered Helaran...

 

When the Knight Radiants feel hatred towards someone, I think they will become open to Odium's influence. Like Ruin influencing the protagonists in Mistborn triology..

 

I think  you've got good points there. The only one I disagree with is Adolin. The big theory at the moment is that he's going to end up a Skybreaker. This is the order that belongs to Nalan, Darkness, the former Herald who goes around killing nascent surgebinders. There's also a comment from Syl at one point in the books where she says something like 'you shouldn't be like this, you're not a Skybreaker' to Kaladin when he's obsessing over Amaram not getting justice ( sorry don't have time to find the exact quote right now).

 

So it would seem that the Skybreakers had a big theme of justice, just as Windrunners are tied to protection, Lightweavers to truth, Edgedancers to remembrance etc. My take on Adolin's killing of Sadeas is that it is his Skybreaker nature coming through, imposing harsh (or unilateral) justice.

[Argent he/him]

His story arc was definitely the best out of all the main characters. Shallan grew a lot, Adolin change quite a bit (or we saw him better), and Dalinar solidified himself, but Kaladin was the one I was rooting for. His downward slope, the potential loss of Syl, the potential that he actually killed her (especially after he defended himself so passionately against the Stormfather's accusations that he would) - all of this worked out really really well. I felt confident that Shallan would be alright, and while I was kind of concerned that either Dalinar or Adolin might die, the thought that Kaladin might lose Syl was what made me cringe in horror. I wasn't worried that Moash or Graves would kill him - I was worried he had killed Syl. 

 

This has to be one of the best, if not the single best character arc Brandon has written to date.