Bort he/him Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 During the battle for Thaylan City, I believe Jasnah swore herself an Ideal. When Adolin is rushing around trying to help, he comes across a perplexed looking Jasnah, who has fading lines of a grid around her. I think that was her first manifestation of Shardplate. I also think Brandon kept it off screen because our main PoV characters aren't there yet, and Jasnah won't be one of those until books 6-10.
Willow Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, Bort said: he comes across a perplexed looking Jasnah I definitely believe that there are strong hints that Jasnah has sworn the fourth ideal, and has shardplate, but the word used in the book is nonplussed, which can indeed mean that she looked perplexed, but not actually in this case, as explained by Peter Ahlstrom: Quote It means unperturbed. We had a lot of discussions about this wording, but this is the way Brandon uses it and I'm fine with that. I also find it a mischaracterization when people say the old meaning and the new meaning are completely opposite. Nonplussed does not mean surprised in the old meaning, it means confused. Confused and bothered are not synonyms. So the fading lines could very well have been shardplate, but Jasnah seems to have mastered it already, since she looks completely in control (or she's a very quick learner). Your argument for why it was kept vague seems likely though.
Bort he/him Posted January 9, 2018 Author Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) Oh, well, that's just great. Brandon uses a word that could describe both confused, and unperturbed (or not-confused). So, really, it's a pointless word in the description, since it could mean that she was confused by the glowing framework, or she wasn't confused by the glowing framework. Edit: I tweeted Brandon for clarification, since to me it makes no sense to use the word 'nonplussed', if Jasnah wasn't puzzled or confused by something. Edited January 9, 2018 by Bort
Yata he/him Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 When I read the book, I read it all the Jasnah as she already spoke all the required Oaths (maybe all the Oaths at all) and she hides her Plate. Indeed during the battle, it's strongly suggested she used her Plate and dismiss it just after...But I believe it's something she already was capable of. About her Radiancy's level, notice how she reacts to Shallan when she tried to proclame herself as a KR. It's seem to suggest that Jasnah see herself as superior in that context. I read it as she already spoke all the Oaths and this means she is the second full Radiant we saw in the Series in modern times (of course the first is Nale) 2
Bort he/him Posted January 9, 2018 Author Posted January 9, 2018 I disagree Yata, otherwise why wasn't she wearing it? Jasnah was in the middle of a battlefield, with enemies outnumbering friendlies by quite the margin. If she knew how to summon her Plate, do you not think she would have been wearing it? She seems far too sensible for it to be otherwise.
Calderis he/him Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Bort said: I disagree Yata, otherwise why wasn't she wearing it? Jasnah was in the middle of a battlefield, with enemies outnumbering friendlies by quite the margin. If she knew how to summon her Plate, do you not think she would have been wearing it? She seems far too sensible for it to be otherwise. Because she was totally in control and filled with Stormlight. We watched her respond to incoming attacks based on the way thing responded in Shadesmar. She was ridiculously OP and never (thought herself) in any danger. She's also Paranoid, and revealing she has plate means it can't be used to surprise a would be attacker. 1
Yata he/him Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, Calderis said: She's also Paranoid, and revealing she has plate means it can't be used to surprise a would be attacker. This is exactly how I figure a character like Jasnah. 27 minutes ago, Bort said: I disagree Yata, otherwise why wasn't she wearing it? Jasnah was in the middle of a battlefield, with enemies outnumbering friendlies by quite the margin. If she knew how to summon her Plate, do you not think she would have been wearing it? She seems far too sensible for it to be otherwise. Yeah It was my opinion, I could of course be wrong. But Jasnah has the resource to manage almost all manaces. And keep a tool hidden until she really need is into her character. Notice also that your own idea falls in the same argument you used to me. if she gained the Plate there....Why didn't she use it for the rest of the battle ?
Bort he/him Posted January 9, 2018 Author Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Yata said: Why didn't she use it for the rest of the battle ? She was nonplussed. To me that means confused, or maybe shocked. I think that would be a natural reaction if she had just mysteriously summoned armour without realising how. Also, if it was a surprise to her, she might not be able to get it back immediately, until she figures out how it was done.
Spoolofwhool Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 6 hours ago, Bort said: She was nonplussed. To me that means confused, or maybe shocked. I think that would be a natural reaction if she had just mysteriously summoned armour without realising how. Also, if it was a surprise to her, she might not be able to get it back immediately, until she figures out how it was done. From Peter above. Nonplussed in this case was to mean unperturbed. She wasn't confused by it. Quote It means unperturbed. We had a lot of discussions about this wording, but this is the way Brandon uses it and I'm fine with that. I also find it a mischaracterization when people say the old meaning and the new meaning are completely opposite. Nonplussed does not mean surprised in the old meaning, it means confused. Confused and bothered are not synonyms. 3
Raykoda Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 @YataThat also raises an (admittedly off topic) but interesting question. In the group of Nale's Skybreakers, was there a fifth Ideal KR? we know Szeth was partially trained by a fourth ideal one. Chances are Jasnah has at least 3 Oaths, and the geometric lines can be evidence of her being at four, but I think it's a little flimsy. Maybe she just Elsecalled in there and that's what that looks like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Calderis he/him Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 17 minutes ago, Raykoda said: @YataThat also raises an (admittedly off topic) but interesting question. In the group of Nale's Skybreakers, was there a fifth Ideal KR? we know Szeth was partially trained by a fourth ideal one. If I remember correctly, we're told that no Skybreaker has attained the fifth in centuries, so I don't think so.
Yata he/him Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Raykoda said: @YataThat also raises an (admittedly off topic) but interesting question. In the group of Nale's Skybreakers, was there a fifth Ideal KR? we know Szeth was partially trained by a fourth ideal one. Chances are Jasnah has at least 3 Oaths, and the geometric lines can be evidence of her being at four, but I think it's a little flimsy. Maybe she just Elsecalled in there and that's what that looks like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Like @Calderis said, for Nale's words he is the only complete Skybreaker around
RShara she/her Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 I'm not sure that Jasnah swore an Oath yet. Dalinar, in the vision with Venli, also manifests proto-plate, and at that point, he's only at 2 Oaths.
Leyrann Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 3 hours ago, RShara said: I'm not sure that Jasnah swore an Oath yet. Dalinar, in the vision with Venli, also manifests proto-plate, and at that point, he's only at 2 Oaths. What makes you say that exactly? I've only read the scene once, so I might've missed it, but I'm curious.
Bort he/him Posted January 11, 2018 Author Posted January 11, 2018 i remember Dalinar attracting loads of Gloryspren, but I don't remember his proto-Plate. Jasnah's is the only (potential) Plate I can remember, other than Shallan's, which may or may not have been real.
Calderis he/him Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bort said: i remember Dalinar attracting loads of Gloryspren, but I don't remember his proto-Plate. Jasnah's is the only (potential) Plate I can remember, other than Shallan's, which may or may not have been real. @Leyrann When Kaladin does his calm spot in the storm, he attracts a bunch of windspren and a framework is made around his arms. In the vision with Venli, Dalinar has the same framework around his arms and hands and it's describes as keeping his hands from being hurt when he skids along the ground to reach her. Adolin seeing "geometric shapes" in the air around Jasnah could easily be the same wire frame around her. Edited January 11, 2018 by Calderis 1
StormingTexan he/him Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 Just dropping off this WoB. Does not specifically say Jasnah but I think she one of the really good candidates. Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] *inaudible* Are they getting Shardplate anytime soon? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] That is a Read And Find Out, unfortunately... There are hints that-- if you look, there are certain people that it's implied already do have it. But I'm not gonna delve into that for another book or two.
RShara she/her Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 From the vision where Dalinar brings in Venli: Quote He fell beside the hole’s perimeter, and stretched one hand toward Venli. His other ground against the rock wall, hand scraping the stone. Something flashed around his arm. Lines of light, a framework that covered his body. His fingers didn’t bleed as they scraped the stone. And Kaladin when deflecting the storm: Quote A hundred windspren spun in as lines of light, twisting around his arm, wrapping it like ribbons. They surged with Light, then exploded outward in a blinding sheet, sweeping to Kaladin’s sides and parting the winds around him. 2
Bort he/him Posted January 11, 2018 Author Posted January 11, 2018 Both of these are events that are noted by the people with them - Dalinar notices the lines, and how his hands don't scrape against the stone, where Syl blatantly asks Kaladin what he just did, and he's as shocked as she is. Jasnah, on the other hand, had the glowing frame around her entire body, and looked "nonplussed." According to Peter Ahlstrom, nonplussed means the exact opposite of what it has meant every other time I've heard it in my life, and doesn't mean she was confused. Quite the opposite, it means she wasn't confused by the glowing framework surrounding her. Maybe it was protoPlate, maybe it was the full set, I don't know. Half of my original theory was that it had fully manifested for the first time since she was stood there looking confused. But, she wasn't, she seemed fine with the glowing framework, so maybe she knew exactly what it was. 1
RShara she/her Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bort said: Both of these are events that are noted by the people with them - Dalinar notices the lines, and how his hands don't scrape against the stone, where Syl blatantly asks Kaladin what he just did, and he's as shocked as she is. Jasnah, on the other hand, had the glowing frame around her entire body, and looked "nonplussed." According to Peter Ahlstrom, nonplussed means the exact opposite of what it has meant every other time I've heard it in my life, and doesn't mean she was confused. Quite the opposite, it means she wasn't confused by the glowing framework surrounding her. Maybe it was protoPlate, maybe it was the full set, I don't know. Half of my original theory was that it had fully manifested for the first time since she was stood there looking confused. But, she wasn't, she seemed fine with the glowing framework, so maybe she knew exactly what it was. Actually, Dalinar didn't say anything about the lines. We get that scene from Venli's perspective. Dalinar isn't described as looking surprised, though. (I agree about nonplussed though, darn it. It's supposed to mean surprised).
StormingTexan he/him Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) It is funny to me that nonplussed means two completely different things (opposites actually) to people and that one word completely changes the way people interpret that scene. For me if has always meant "unconcerned" as Brandon intended. Edited January 11, 2018 by StormingTexan 1
RShara she/her Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 Quote non·plussed adjective: nonplussed; adjective: non-plussed; adjective: nonplused 1. (of a person) surprised and confused so much that they are unsure how to react. "he would be completely nonplussed and embarrassed at the idea" 2. North Americaninformal (of a person) not disconcerted; unperturbed. 1
Govir Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 4 hours ago, RShara said: Quote non·plussed adjective: nonplussed; adjective: non-plussed; adjective: nonplused 1. (of a person) surprised and confused so much that they are unsure how to react. "he would be completely nonplussed and embarrassed at the idea" 2. North Americaninformal (of a person) not disconcerted; unperturbed. Well now I am literally nonplussed... 1
Subvisual Haze Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 I arrive home tonight and discover my cat got sick on the edge of a windowsill and there's a line of cat puke down the wall from the window ledge to the floor. I turn a 180 right back out my front door and head to a restaurant for dinner. Was I nonplussed(1), or was I nonplussed(2)? 1
RShara she/her Posted January 12, 2018 Posted January 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said: I arrive home tonight and discover my cat got sick on the edge of a windowsill and there's a line of cat puke down the wall from the window ledge to the floor. I turn a 180 right back out my front door and head to a restaurant for dinner. Was I nonplussed(1), or was I nonplussed(2)? I'd say you were into, "Nope" territory, personally 1
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