[OB] Eshonai/Venli

[Fatling he/him]

So long ago before Oathbringer had come out (in August, to be exact) and we were all speculating about what would happen in the book there was a lengthy discussion about killing off characters and I was wondering what peoples’ thoughts were on Eshonai’s death. Personally, I thought it was a little weird, and the shift to Venli was unexpected, almost like it being a plot twist just for the sake of being a plot twist. Considering that Eshonai is one of the characters that has a prologue viewpoint and flashbacks (actually now I can’t remember if that’s true or not), it seems like her arc was pretty weak. 

Here’s that discussion about disappearing characters/premature death (on most of pages 11 and 12):

 

[StrikerEZ he/him]

Hmm, I'd be curious to know why you think it was a plot twist for the sake of a plot twist. For me, the confirmation of Eshonai's death was a good thing, and I loved Venli's arc. Don't get me wrong, I was still secretly holding out hope that she had survived the fall, but I think it was better that she died for two main reasons. The first is that Brandon has "revived" far too many characters in his books (in my opinion), so he needed to let some characters die for good. The other reason that it was good for Eshonai to die is that it helps remind people that no one in Stormlight is safe, not even people we like, love, or even main characters. 

Also, I'm so excited for book 4 because Brandon has confirmed in a WoB that it is indeed Eshonai's flashback book. It'll be interesting to see how he uses Eshonai's perspective in the flashbacks to flesh out Venli's character more. 

[RShara she/her]

I think Eshonai was always slated to die.  Brandon's said a lot of times that a flashback character doesn't have to be alive for their book. 

[Calderis he/him]

I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it again. 

This seems to be what has always been planned, and the juxtaposition of Eshonai's flashback to listener culture, and discovering the humans, next to current Venli and her interactions with the new singers... 

I'm far more excited for next book than I ever was for Eshonai alone. 

[Fatling he/him]

On 12/29/2017 at 6:24 PM, StrikerEZ said:

The first is that Brandon has "revived" far too many characters in his books (in my opinion), so he needed to let some characters die for good

Agreed - I realize now that it’s ironic that I was more surprised about Eshonai dying than I would have been about her reviving (which would be the more typical plot twist). 

The reason I felt like it was more of a plot twist for the sake of a plot twist is because it seemed like Venli had a lot of the same feel as Eshonai (reluctantly questioning the justice of the Parshendi cause), so it was almost like Brandon was just taking Eshonai out and swapping Venli in.

22 hours ago, Calderis said:

I’m far more excited for next book than I ever was for Eshonai alone. 

I really liked Eshonai as a character so I’m excited about her flashbacks too, and to see how things will play out with Venli. I think one of the things that makes Brandon a great writer is how he writes characters from opposing sides and then shows how the “us and them” viewpoint is often an oversimplification

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I like the fact that he killed off Eshonai. Everyone thought she would be alive, and as such the twist was great. And people did need to die. WoK and WoR doesn't feature any main character death, except for Sadeas, who is a villain (Jasnah and Szeth doesn't count). Killing Eshonai was a good way to get the "no one is safe" thing going. 

In addition, Eshonai wasn't very interesting. She was a good person at the start of WoR, and she stayed a good person. She just wants to explore and discover, but has to be a general instead. That was basically her character. Her decision to take up Stormform was a huge mistake on her part, and her good intentions basically wound up enslaving her people. The fact that she is so innocent, and is in a position of huge responsibility, which she didn't really want, makes her failure and death very tragic. Surviving and saving her people would have made her a pretty predictable hero, with a predictable redemption arc, and it would also remove the sense of tragedy. Killing her off makes her a deeply tragic character instead, which is much more interesting, and, for me, much more fulfilling. This also allows Brandon to build up Venli and make her a better character. 

Short answer: killing Eshonai was totally the right move.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Toaster Retribution

[Kaleid]

I felt like Eshonai's death was very... Anticlimactic. Almost like an afterthought.

 

She was a main character in the previous two books but it felt like she barely got a mention in this one.

[Angsos]

Not everyone can get killed in a one-one duel with Kaladin, Dalinar, Kelsier, John Snow, Aragorn, Rand etc.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

3 hours ago, Kaleid said:

She was a main character in the previous two books but it felt like she barely got a mention in this one.

She wasn't really a main character in WoK. Jakamav was a bigger character than she was in that one.

 

[Kaleid]

I guess she stood out because of her unique perspective - and being the only PoV we got from that "side"