(OB) The Antagonists You Like

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I know that most SA antagonists/villains get their fair share of hate (Sadeas, Moash and Amaram aren't really popular) but I was wondering if there are antagonists who people like/enjoy/support? Who, in that case?

[Vissy]

Marsh MVP imo

[Melovespie he/him]

Well, before OB Eshonai could have technically been an antagonist to the main characters and I loved her. I also think that the Unmade are awesome. Odium is fantastically written, Taravangian I almost wish was successful, before the end of Oathbringer. Even Amaram before this book I respected. 

 

Basically, Oathbringer made all of the antagonists awful.

[Rainier]

I like Amaram and Moash....

Or at least I liked what I thought Amaram was going to be. I was disappointed he just...switched so quickly and easily. I thought we'd see a lot more of his inner conflict and justifications. At least we're getting some of that from Moash, so I'm happy there.

Taravangian is also a great character, and I'd qualify him as an antagonist.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

1 hour ago, Rainier said:

Or at least I liked what I thought Amaram was going to be. I was disappointed he just...switched so quickly and easily. I thought we'd see a lot more of his inner conflict and justifications. 

Agree. I still like Amaram, and I'm okay with what happened to him in OB, but I can't help but feel that the entire sequence with him during Thaylen City would have been much more epic if we got a scene showing how Odium broke him, and how he realized his gods were a lie. It would have added so much to his character.

[digitalbusker he/him]

I enjoy Iyatil. And I guess Mraize a little. The Ghostbloods are, at this point, barely antagonists (as far as we know).

Taravangian and the Diagram are probably the closest thing to outright villains that I have any affection for.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "like". I enjoyed Torol Sadeas's PoVs, but not because I enjoyed him so much as in anticipation of schadenfreude. (This goes double on rereads, now that I know what's coming for him.)

[Greywatch she/her]

I did like Malata - counting Diagrammists as antagonists here - but I also wish we knew more about her, her wants, her motivations, what she cares about. I've spent a lot of time anticipating the Releasers, I want to know more!

[Chinsukolo]

As a character in a book, I like Amaran and Moash.  They are well written with understandable motivations and their behavior and decisions alight with that.  For those reasons I do like them.  I dislike/hate them as "people", but not as characters in a book.  At no point to I want to "yell at them" or just stop reading because I hate them so.

However I was already annoyed with Mr. T in the first 2 books, OB has made me hate him both as a Character and as a person.  I want to yell at him and I want to slap him on the side of the head.  Some of his scenes make me put the book down and walk away to finish later.

[Nymeros]

1. NALE

2. Moash

3. Taravangian

 

That's about it. Odium bores me now that we know he is actually "Passion" and appears as an old granddaddy.

Let's see how interesting the Fused are when fleshed out and see what Odium has to show.

[TequilaJack]

42 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

1. NALE

2. Moash

3. Taravangian

 

That's about it. Odium bores me now that we know he is actually "Passion" and appears as an old granddaddy.

Let's see how interesting the Fused are when fleshed out and see what Odium has to show.

Agree with this. 

Has Eshonai been alive, she'd be #1.

[J4m3sDeex]

3 hours ago, Chinsukolo said:

As a character in a book, I like Amaran and Moash.  They are well written with understandable motivations and their behavior and decisions alight with that.  For those reasons I do like them.  I dislike/hate them as "people", but not as characters in a book.  At no point to I want to "yell at them" or just stop reading because I hate them so.

However I was already annoyed with Mr. T in the first 2 books, OB has made me hate him both as a Character and as a person.  I want to yell at him and I want to slap him on the side of the head.  Some of his scenes make me put the book down and walk away to finish later.

I don't even hate Moash as a person because although he betrayed Kaladin and bridge 4, from his point of view Kaladin betrayed him (especially as Kaladin seemed to be on board with the assassination plan for a while) which I think is why he did the bridge 4 salute after killing Elhokar. Also, I think people would be less sympathetic for Elhokar and more for Moash if it had been Kaladin's parents, rather than Moash's grandparents who were effectively murdered by Elhokar on behalf of Roshone. (tbf what happened to Moash's grandparents isn't morally equivalent to murder and Elhokar wouldn't have seen it as a death sentence but it's pretty fair for a relative to see it as such).

Edited December 23, 2017 by J4m3sDeex

[Song she/her]

I am disappointed that Ialai seems to have left the scene. She had the makings of a really great antagonist. Clever, running a spy network, and with a chip on her shoulder. Also unlike Mr T and Amaran she has no interest in saving the world, just benefiting herself and now revenge. Plus a female a antagonist would balance things out (though hopefully Malata will play a bigger role soon).

[Kered he/him]

Nale is one, but that's because I have a hard time actually seeing him as a villain for some reason. With the exception of Taln, Nale is the Herald that I most want to see return to sanity and join the good side. 

Odium. I know it's the easy answer but I can't help it. We've been waiting a long time to finally see him on-screen and it was totally worth the wait. I've said it before, most people pictured Odium as this character that would be some wild, hateful, barley controlled bad guy. Instead we get this guy that appears kindhearted and sympathetic.Then without even breaking stride he says or does some of the most evil and intimidating stuff we've seen so far in the cosmere. Not counting his "We killed you!" moment, Odium never let the mask slip. He never appeared angry or spiteful or prone to mood swings as many of us accepted him to be. He showed a portion of his true power to Dalinar and instead of making some evil boastful speech, he just treats it like he accidentally bumped into Dalinar on the street lol. Also, after his defeat and subsequent conversation with Mr. T, I was finally expecting to see the "true" Odium, for him to just be pure hatred and finally give meaning to the shard of hatred. Nope, just calm and compliments the man and subtly informs Mr. T that in every way imaginable he his better than him and his Diagram. I can't wait to see more of him in the future. I'm particularly looking forward to some character interactions with Odium. I think Jasnah would be the most interesting. She is so used to dominating the conversation, having the upper hand and feeling totally confident. I think that if she were to converse with Odium he would just gracefully and effortlessly make her feel like a child. My favorite interaction possibility would obviously be Hoid. From everything we know, i think this would be the situation were we just see full on hatred from Odium. 

My next one isn't the conventional antagonist per say, but I think it counts. Kaladin's "dark self". The person he became during his last days as a slave and first days as a bridgemen. When he was imprisoned in WoR and after he lost Syl. In OB when Moash killed Elhokar. Kaladin is Kaladin's own worst enemy and I think it's refreshing dynamic in a story with so many fantastical extremes. 

Last one would be Szeth from the interludes of WoK and WoR. With the exception of Kaladin losing Syl, I don't think I've ever felt as bad for a character as I did for Szeth when he was being passed from master to master. When ever he fought Kaladin I honestly didn't know who I wanted to win. And that is what makes a good villain in my opinion. One that breaks the mold and has that defined "grey" area of you wanting to hate or love him as a character. 

 Ialai was a fun villain just because she got shut down at literally every opportunity by Navani or Jasnah. But I never saw her as an actual threat worthy villain, just comic relief.  

Edited December 23, 2017 by Kered

[Calderis he/him]

Do I even need to say it at this point? 

Taravangian. Always Taravangian. 

[Rainier]

14 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Agree. I still like Amaram, and I'm okay with what happened to him in OB, but I can't help but feel that the entire sequence with him during Thaylen City would have been much more epic if we got a scene showing how Odium broke him, and how he realized his gods were a lie. It would have added so much to his character.

What I wanted to see from Amaram was the fulfillment of his promise/threat to Dalinar. He said, more or less, You Need Me. I wanted to see Dalinar Need Amaram, like Gavilar clearly relied on him. Clearly Gavilar trusted Amaram much more than Dalinar, and I wanted to see more of Gavilar through the interactions of the remaining two.

But nope. Amaram sucks. He's a traitor and he swallowed the gem first chance he got.

Like I said, at least we get a little more ambiguity from Moash. I just wish it wasn't wasted on Amaram.

[Alzabar]

10 hours ago, Rainier said:

What I wanted to see from Amaram was the fulfillment of his promise/threat to Dalinar. He said, more or less, You Need Me. I wanted to see Dalinar Need Amaram, like Gavilar clearly relied on him. Clearly Gavilar trusted Amaram much more than Dalinar, and I wanted to see more of Gavilar through the interactions of the remaining two.

But nope. Amaram sucks. He's a traitor and he swallowed the gem first chance he got.

Gavilar only really liked Amaram because they were part of the Sons of Honor together, trying to bring back the Desolations. Also Amaram didn’t swallow the gem right away, he got his butt whooped by Kal first.