[OB] Nightblood's purpose on Roshar

[A Dopey Spren he/him]

Now, Nightblood is a pretty badass sword, with his sense of humour and intent to eradicate evil in whichever fashionable way possible. 

Whilst his power is somewhat nebulous as of right now, I am wondering what happens to a Fused struck by Nightblood. 

He destroys across all three realms, so what does this mean for the Fused who intend on returning to a new Parshman body?

I think that NB will be the way to stop Fused from being reborn in the Everstorm. We saw a Thunderclast cleaved in two by Szeth as he saved Lift, maybe it won't be 'reborn'! 

Personally I don't fee Nightblood is in the Stormlight Archive just for the sake of being in them, he has a bigger roll than shown so far, and maybe this is it? Instead of the Fused going to Damnation, they just stop existing.

Thoughts?

Edited December 4, 2017 by A Dopey Spren

[Fourth Of The Night]

Whoa. I hadn't even considered this. This makes a lot of sense! I like it.

[A Dopey Spren he/him]

13 minutes ago, Fourth Of The Night said:

Whoa. I hadn't even considered this. This makes a lot of sense! I like it.

It'll definitely be interesting to see how his use progresses and what it means for the KR now that they have him!

[Comby23 he/him]

I really like this idea. When the Fused were being described in the book I thought of Nightblood being a way to stop them continually coming back. 

On the other hand though, the idea of Odium's forces getting Nightblood scares me. I imagine Nightblood would be just as capable of doing severe harm to a Herald as well. Or to any of our Knights Radiant. 

We know that Vasher/Vivienna/Nightblood were mostly written for Oathbringer, so I can totally see him doing some harm on both sides of this conflict eventually. 

[A Dopey Spren he/him]

1 hour ago, Comby23 said:

I really like this idea. When the Fused were being described in the book I thought of Nightblood being a way to stop them continually coming back. 

On the other hand though, the idea of Odium's forces getting Nightblood scares me. I imagine Nightblood would be just as capable of doing severe harm to a Herald as well. Or to any of our Knights Radiant. 

We know that Vasher/Vivienna/Nightblood were mostly written for Oathbringer, so I can totally see him doing some harm on both sides of this conflict eventually. 

I completely agree, but don't forget that NB crave destroying evil, and I think the Fused, after thousands of years of waiting, and brimming with evil and hatred. I think they'd sooner kill themselves with it rather than the KR! 

[StormingTexan he/him]

Nightblood's purpose on Roshar = Destroy Evil

[Rainier]

This has been brought up more than a few times since release, and it's a great idea. We've seen Nightblood take down a Thunderclast, which we know was a large spren in the cognitive realm. I'm pretty sure what we know of Nightblood makes him the ultimate Fused-killer.

However I don't think that's why Nightblood is in the series, I think there's got to be something bigger than that. Since you didn't specficially say spoilers for Warbreaker (which you should for all Nightblood topics, in my opinion), I'll put the rest in a spoiler comment. 

Spoiler

 

We know that the whole idea for Nightblood came from Roshar, in that Vasher and Shashara patterned Nightblood on something from Roshar. Whether that's specifically the spren-blades or if it was the Honorblades remains to be seen, but the birth of Nightblood as an idea came from Roshar.

Furthermore, there's at least one other highly invested sword in Vivenna's possession, and we know that she intends to sell the knowledge of how to make another such sword to the spren that were carrying them through Shadesmar. This, I think, is getting closer to Nightblood's purpose in the series as a whole. I think he's there as a MK1 prototype for a new generation of invested weapons which will come to pervade the entire cosmere as the stories move forward through time and extend into other novels. I think he's there to get people like Navani asking how she can make a Shardblade, and that eventually we'll have more swords like him.

In a way, we're seeing the beginning of a Nuclear Era, with Vasher in the role of Oppenheimer. If there was ever a person to declare himself Death, Destroyer of Worlds, it would have to be Warbreaker the Peaceful, right?

 

 

[A Dopey Spren he/him]

1 hour ago, Rainier said:

This has been brought up more than a few times since release, and it's a great idea. We've seen Nightblood take down a Thunderclast, which we know was a large spren in the cognitive realm. I'm pretty sure what we know of Nightblood makes him the ultimate Fused-killer.

However I don't think that's why Nightblood is in the series, I think there's got to be something bigger than that. Since you didn't specficially say spoilers for Warbreaker (which you should for all Nightblood topics, in my opinion), I'll put the rest in a spoiler comment. 

  Hide contents

 

We know that the whole idea for Nightblood came from Roshar, in that Vasher and Shashara patterned Nightblood on something from Roshar. Whether that's specifically the spren-blades or if it was the Honorblades remains to be seen, but the birth of Nightblood as an idea came from Roshar.

Furthermore, there's at least one other highly invested sword in Vivenna's possession, and we know that she intends to sell the knowledge of how to make another such sword to the spren that were carrying them through Shadesmar. This, I think, is getting closer to Nightblood's purpose in the series as a whole. I think he's there as a MK1 prototype for a new generation of invested weapons which will come to pervade the entire cosmere as the stories move forward through time and extend into other novels. I think he's there to get people like Navani asking how she can make a Shardblade, and that eventually we'll have more swords like him.

In a way, we're seeing the beginning of a Nuclear Era, with Vasher in the role of Oppenheimer. If there was ever a person to declare himself Death, Destroyer of Worlds, it would have to be Warbreaker the Peaceful, right?

 

 

Thanks for pointing out regarding the Warbreaker side of things, I'll change that. I hadn't realised that people had brought this up! Even so, I find him being the destroyer of Fused quite exciting!

And that's definitely an interesting theory in terms of the mass production of Nightblood-esque swords. Doesn't that seem a bit risky? You can programme them with any number of commands, and lo and behold, you have a SWMD (sentient weapon of mass destruction!)

Edited December 4, 2017 by A Dopey Spren

[treblkickd he/him]

2 hours ago, A Dopey Spren said:

Now, Nightblood is a pretty badass sword, with his sense of humour and intent to eradicate evil in whichever fashionable way possible. 

 

Love this thread, but here are you maybe referring more to the comic relief elements that Nightblood brings? I've never gotten the impression that Nightblood possesses anything close to a sense of humor (along with other subtle/nuanced "human" qualities). This is a big part of what makes Nightblood such a frightening entity, it doesn't seem to know how to behave like anything other than something between an over-eager puppy and a single minded child.

[A Dopey Spren he/him]

7 minutes ago, treblkickd said:

 

Love this thread, but here are you maybe referring more to the comic relief elements that Nightblood brings? I've never gotten the impression that Nightblood possesses anything close to a sense of humor (along with other subtle/nuanced "human" qualities). This is a big part of what makes Nightblood such a frightening entity, it doesn't seem to know how to behave like anything other than something between an over-eager puppy and a single minded child.

When I say sense of humour I'm thinking more along the lines of the comic relief elements as you mentioned, and the fact he doesn't actually realise what he's saying. His naivety and both the over-eager puppy and single minded childlessness, I found funny, paired with his brutal manner of killing people.

You're right though, sense of humour is wrong, more the manner in which he doesn't understand human nature and the way he implies things! 

Edited December 4, 2017 by A Dopey Spren

[StormingTexan he/him]

2 minutes ago, A Dopey Spren said:

When I say sense of humour I'm thinking more along the lines of the comic relief elements as you mentioned, and the fact he doesn't actually realise what he's saying. His naivety and both the over-eager puppy and single minded childlessness, I found funny, paired with his brutal manner of killing people.

You're right though, sense of humour is wrong, more the sense of his ability to understand human nature and what he's actually implying! 

I REALLY want more Szeth/Nightblood/Lift that combo was both hilarious and a little dangerous all in one. 

[Rainier]

7 minutes ago, A Dopey Spren said:

Doesn't that seem a bit risky? You can programme them with any number of commands, and lo and behold, you have a SWMD (sentient weapon of mass destruction!)

It absolutely IS risky, which is why Vivenna selling the knowledge of how to make more is, I think, the most important thing to happen in Oathbringer.

Let me say that again: of all the crazy rust that goes down, the single most important event may have been the selling of weapons technology between two factions we hardly understand. Who knows where that technology will lead? That question, by the way, is also the heart of the Mistborn trilogy-of-trilogies: how does magic interact with technology?

One last note: we have no idea what the differences are between Nigthblood and Vivenna's sword. It could be that her sword has a different level of investiture, or that it isn't really like Nightblood at all. It may or may not destroy on all three realms. It may or may not consume investiture, thus lowering the total amount available in the Cosmere. I'm inclined to think it isn't quite the doomsday weapon that Nightblood is, both because we see Vivenna use it and it just drains color but doesn't make the poor bastard at the pointy end disappear in a puff of smoke and because More Warbreaker Spoilers:

Spoiler

Vasher killed Shashara to keep the secret of making swords like this from spreading. We also know, from Brandon's annotations of Warbreaker, that Yesteel also knows how to make these swords, and had the crisis not been averted he would have led an army armed with said swords to put down the Hallendren aggression. So I doubt Vasher would have taught Vivenna, and if she had learned on her own he would have helped her avert what he saw as his mistakes.

So yeah, Nightblood is AI, and AI is scary. The spread of AI technology is scary. And the connotations of Nightblood on Roshar go farther than simply taking out Fused.

I can't wait for Nightblood, the book. It's #1 on my list of Cosmere books I want before SA#4. I think when it comes out we're going to see much more of the backstory and motiviations of these characters, and what exactly brought them to Roshar. I'll also shamelessly plug a topic I started a few days ago: Vasher, Vivenna, Nigthblood, and Szeth where I talk about the chain of custody and possible motivations.

[StormingTexan he/him]

4 minutes ago, Rainier said:

So yeah, Nightblood is AI, and AI is scary. The spread of AI technology is scary. And the connotations of Nightblood on Roshar go farther than simply taking out Fused.

I picture a cutscene at the end of SA 10 with Nightblood wearing a tiny construction helmet overseeing a factory of AI swords being made. 

Quote

I can't wait for Nightblood, the book. It's #1 on my list of Cosmere books I want before SA#4. I think when it comes out we're going to see much more of the backstory and motiviations of these characters, and what exactly brought them to Roshar. I'll also shamelessly plug a topic I started a few days ago: Vasher, Vivenna, Nigthblood, and Szeth where I talk about the chain of custody and possible motivations.

Me too I'd even be willing to prolong MBE2 #4 if we could get Nightblood first. I feel like though at the earliest it will be before book 5 being Szeth's book it would fit in nicely. 

[A Dopey Spren he/him]

3 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

I REALLY want more Szeth/Nightblood/Lift that combo was both hilarious and a little dangerous all in one. 

I know right! Lift's recklessness, Szeth's focus on what's lawful and his neutrality and Nightblood just being Nightblood.

3 minutes ago, Rainier said:

It absolutely IS risky, which is why Vivenna selling the knowledge of how to make more is, I think, the most important thing to happen in Oathbringer.

Let me say that again: of all the crazy rust that goes down, the single most important event may have been the selling of weapons technology between two factions we hardly understand. Who knows where that technology will lead? That question, by the way, is also the heart of the Mistborn trilogy-of-trilogies: how does magic interact with technology?

One last note: we have no idea what the differences are between Nigthblood and Vivenna's sword. It could be that her sword has a different level of investiture, or that it isn't really like Nightblood at all. It may or may not destroy on all three realms. It may or may not consume investiture, thus lowering the total amount available in the Cosmere. I'm inclined to think it isn't quite the doomsday weapon that Nightblood is, both because we see Vivenna use it and it just drains color but doesn't make the poor bastard at the pointy end disappear in a puff of smoke and because More Warbreaker Spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Vasher killed Shashara to keep the secret of making swords like this from spreading. We also know, from Brandon's annotations of Warbreaker, that Yesteel also knows how to make these swords, and had the crisis not been averted he would have led an army armed with said swords to put down the Hallendren aggression. So I doubt Vasher would have taught Vivenna, and if she had learned on her own he would have helped her avert what he saw as his mistakes.

So yeah, Nightblood is AI, and AI is scary. The spread of AI technology is scary. And the connotations of Nightblood on Roshar go farther than simply taking out Fused.

I can't wait for Nightblood, the book. It's #1 on my list of Cosmere books I want before SA#4. I think when it comes out we're going to see much more of the backstory and motiviations of these characters, and what exactly brought them to Roshar. I'll also shamelessly plug a topic I started a few days ago: Vasher, Vivenna, Nigthblood, and Szeth where I talk about the chain of custody and possible motivations.

That's true, and it seems reckless of Vivenna to do so, but I'm sure there are ends to which she is working towards. Valid point regarding the fact that NB and Vivenna's sword have those differences! 

I'm super excited for the Nightblood book! I loved Warbreaker, (odd that many didn't enjoy it!) and I'd love to see how the characters progressed further.

Argh! Sanderson! Too much excitement and too many questions which have been left unanswered!!

[StormingTexan he/him]

3 minutes ago, A Dopey Spren said:

I'm super excited for the Nightblood book! I loved Warbreaker, (odd that many didn't enjoy it!) and I'd love to see how the characters progressed further.

I feel like it is his most unappreciated book and not sure why. I am eagerly looking forward to the day when there is a Nightblood status bar. 

[Rainier]

1 minute ago, StormingTexan said:

I picture a cutscene at the end of SA 10 with Nightblood wearing a tiny construction helmet overseeing a factory of AI swords being made. 

You jest, and it won't be Nightblood, but imagine a sentient invested object with the command: reproduce yourself. 

 

2 minutes ago, A Dopey Spren said:

I'm sure there are ends to which she is working towards.

I don't doubt that she has her goals, but I do doubt that she's fully thought through the consequences of what she's doing to accomplish them. Alas, we'll have to wait for more content because right now there's just too much uncertainty. 

Did Vasher betray her, or did she betray Vasher, or did something else cause them to part ways? Did Vasher help her with this sword, or was it Yesteel? If so, what difference does it make? Is the difference indicative that this is Yesteel's handiwork and not Vasher's?

She says Vasher and Nightblood are criminals. What crimes did they commit? When? Where? Against whom? All unanswered, as of yet. Most likely is theft of Nightblood himself, but again, why? And then who brought Nightblood to Roshar in the first place? Was it Vasher? Why does't he have it now?

Vasher was haunted by the changes his inventions wrought on his world, Nalthis. I don't think he'd agree to build more swords, but I can absolutely see Vivenna repeating Vasher's mistakes.

[The Invested Beard]

1 minute ago, StormingTexan said:

I feel like it is his most unappreciated book and not sure why. I am eagerly looking forward to the day when there is a Nightblood status bar. 

+1

[A Dopey Spren he/him]

13 minutes ago, Rainier said:

You jest, and it won't be Nightblood, but imagine a sentient invested object with the command: reproduce yourself. 

That actually made me laugh aloud!

14 minutes ago, Rainier said:

I don't doubt that she has her goals, but I do doubt that she's fully thought through the consequences of what she's doing to accomplish them. Alas, we'll have to wait for more content because right now there's just too much uncertainty. 

Did Vasher betray her, or did she betray Vasher, or did something else cause them to part ways? Did Vasher help her with this sword, or was it Yesteel? If so, what difference does it make? Is the difference indicative that this is Yesteel's handiwork and not Vasher's?

She says Vasher and Nightblood are criminals. What crimes did they commit? When? Where? Against whom? All unanswered, as of yet. Most likely is theft of Nightblood himself, but again, why? And then who brought Nightblood to Roshar in the first place? Was it Vasher? Why does't he have it now?

Vasher was haunted by the changes his inventions wrought on his world, Nalthis. I don't think he'd agree to build more swords, but I can absolutely see Vivenna repeating Vasher's mistakes.

That's very true. Sanderson has kept it very nebulous and is leading us on, hopefully a lot will be answered in the near future! I'm definitely curious as to what happened upon the ending of Warbreaker and what has happened between Vasher, Vivenna and Nightblood!

Imagine programming multiple sentient blades with: Destroy the Fused. So many possibilities!

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

I'm not sure Vivenna agreed to tell the spren how to make more swords, she could have just agreed to give them some basic information on her sword. I haven't reread OB yet, so not sure. In any case I doubt she would teach anyone how to make Nightbloods for two reasons. Vasher would almost certainly hunt her down and kill her, and there may be other cosmere groups to do so too. Secondly she is chasing Nightblood as a criminal. She knows Nightblood isn't normal, and if she thinks of him as a criminal she won't be likely to teach others to make more criminals who supposedly would be unable to not be criminals. (Since its literally their purpose for been). 

Now, it is possible Vivenna doesn't know how to make Nightblood, and just knows how to make invested swords which are not "wrong". Whatever is going on with Nightblood we don't know everything of its creation.

Finally, as soon as they said the Fused are reborn on the everstorm I had a vision of Szeth flying in with Nightblood into the Everstorm. Fused souls destroyed + lots of investure in the Everstorm to feed Nightblood = Perfect evil destruction

[A Dopey Spren he/him]

16 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I'm not sure Vivenna agreed to tell the spren how to make more swords, she could have just agreed to give them some basic information on her sword. I haven't reread OB yet, so not sure. In any case I doubt she would teach anyone how to make Nightbloods for two reasons. Vasher would almost certainly hunt her down and kill her, and there may be other cosmere groups to do so too. Secondly she is chasing Nightblood as a criminal. She knows Nightblood isn't normal, and if she thinks of him as a criminal she won't be likely to teach others to make more criminals who supposedly would be unable to not be criminals. (Since its literally their purpose for been). 

Now, it is possible Vivenna doesn't know how to make Nightblood, and just knows how to make invested swords which are not "wrong". Whatever is going on with Nightblood we don't know everything of its creation.

Finally, as soon as they said the Fused are reborn on the everstorm I had a vision of Szeth flying in with Nightblood into the Everstorm. Fused souls destroyed + lots of investure in the Everstorm to feed Nightblood = Perfect evil destruction

All true, and regarding the last two sentences, that sounds so dramatic and exciting!

[The One Who Connects he/him]

4 hours ago, Rainier said:

If there was ever a person to declare himself Death, Destroyer of Worlds, it would have to be Warbreaker the Peaceful, right?

“It’s a complete misnomer. Our names and titles are assigned randomly by a small monkey who has been fed an exceedingly large amount of gin.”
     —Lightsong the Bold

[A Dopey Spren he/him]

7 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

“It’s a complete misnomer. Our names and titles are assigned randomly by a small monkey who has been fed an exceedingly large amount of gin.”
     —Lightsong the Bold

I forgot that quote! I need to reread Warbreaker, I loved that book!