OB Two questions bugging me

[Bennyoneball]

So, long time lurker, first time poster. I’ve searched for answers to a couple of questions that have been bugging me since reading and haven’t seen an answer (granted, there may not BE an answer at this point) so here it goes:

1- At the last battle in the book where the Radiants (+2 Heralds) gather, Dalinar looks at Szeth and Lift and thinks as he is counting them off “Skybreaker” and “Edgedancer”.  So the question is, how does he know Szeth is a skybreaker? Maybe is I missed something, but as far as he knows, didn’t Kaladin kill Szeth?

2- Dalanar pulls Venli into one of his visions. Had he met Venli before that I don’t remember? If not, why her? Why would he just happen to pick the one Listener who just happened to be in the process of being “courted” by a spren to bond?

So not big questions, but to me are kind of nagging and obvious plot holes that you”d think some of the alpha or beta readers would have picked up on.

 

thanks in advance.

[Oversleep]

5 minutes ago, Bennyoneball said:

2- Dalanar pulls Venli into one of his visions. Had he met Venli before that I don’t remember? If not, why her? Why would he just happen to pick the one Listener who just happened to be in the process of being “courted” by a spren to bond?

Venli was - IIRC - the only singer that Stormfather could reach. And that was probably due to the spren bond.

[Nathrangking he/him]

4 minutes ago, Bennyoneball said:

 

2- Dalanar pulls Venli into one of his visions. Had he met Venli before that I don’t remember? If not, why her? Why would he just happen to pick the one Listener who just happened to be in the process of being “courted” by a spren to bond?

So not big questions, but to me are kind of nagging and obvious plot holes that you”d think some of the alpha or beta readers would have picked up on.

 

thanks in advance.

It was not a random pick on his part. He asked the stormfather if he was aware of ardents/ leadership structure of the enemy other than Odium himself. The stormfather said that he did not though there was someone that he was aware of/ could see. That was Venli. He then asks about the timing of the next highstorm and the rest is history.

[Bennyoneball]

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Indefatigable said:

Venli was - IIRC - the only singer that Stormfather could reach. And that was probably due to the spren bond.

Hmmm, makes sense. I don’t remember that being explicitly said but I probably missed it. Thanks.

[Bennyoneball]

2 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

It was not a random pick on his part. He asked the stormfather if he was aware of ardents/ leadership structure of the enemy other than Odium himself. The stormfather said that he did not though there was someone that he was aware of/ could see. That was Venli. He then asks about the timing of the next highstorm and the rest is history.

Gotcha...totally missed that. Pulled some long reading sessions late at night. Here I was thinking I found a plot hole lol...that no one else was talking about. That should have tipped me off  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ymawgat]

1 hour ago, Bennyoneball said:

1- At the last battle in the book where the Radiants (+2 Heralds) gather, Dalinar looks at Szeth and Lift and thinks as he is counting them off “Skybreaker” and “Edgedancer”.  So the question is, how does he know Szeth is a skybreaker? Maybe is I missed something, but as far as he knows, didn’t Kaladin kill Szeth?

He was pretty hyped up on stormlight at the time. It's very possible that having a certain amount of investiture automatically gives you the ability to see how others are invested/what their powers are (there are loads of examples across many cosmere books that sort of imply this), and being a bondsmith probably doesn't hurt either.

Maybe a better question is why he expected a member from each other order to be standing behind him? Makes me think they'll eventually have a stoneward, dustbringer, and willshaper who each aren't evil or supposedly dead at the bottom of a canyon.

[Exalted]

1 hour ago, Bennyoneball said:

So, long time lurker, first time poster. I’ve searched for answers to a couple of questions that have been bugging me since reading and haven’t seen an answer (granted, there may not BE an answer at this point) so here it goes:

1- At the last battle in the book where the Radiants (+2 Heralds) gather, Dalinar looks at Szeth and Lift and thinks as he is counting them off “Skybreaker” and “Edgedancer”.  So the question is, how does he know Szeth is a skybreaker? Maybe is I missed something, but as far as he knows, didn’t Kaladin kill Szeth?

He also says something about having nine of the Orders and wanting all ten, but that's not quite right either--as of this point, Shallan and Ash are both Lightweavers (or the Lightweavers' Herald), although it's my opinion that the latter will switch Orders before or during her viewpoint book. So in all likelihood he doesn't actually know what Order each of them belong to, and is just guessing at this point.

[Bennyoneball]

1 hour ago, Ymawgat said:

He was pretty hyped up on stormlight at the time. It's very possible that having a certain amount of investiture automatically gives you the ability to see how others are invested/what their powers are (there are loads of examples across many cosmere books that sort of imply this), and being a bondsmith probably doesn't hurt either.

Maybe a better question is why he expected a member from each other order to be standing behind him? Makes me think they'll eventually have a stoneward, dustbringer, and willshaper who each aren't evil or supposedly dead at the bottom of a canyon.

Thanks for the reply. Really good points and I think you are right. Good question regarding his expectation of having all other orders there with him. I’d be surprised if at some point we didn’t have a POV character of each order, of varying levels of main characterness.

[MacThorstenson he/him]

1 hour ago, Ymawgat said:

He was pretty hyped up on stormlight at the time. It's very possible that having a certain amount of investiture automatically gives you the ability to see how others are invested/what their powers are (there are loads of examples across many cosmere books that sort of imply this), and being a bondsmith probably doesn't hurt either.

 

Is it possible that he was looking into the cognitive realm with the perpendicularity so close and seeing the spren of each order? Also, similar to how those who picked up the shard of preservation gained knowledge about how to use it, maybe picking up a portion of Honors power allowed Dalinar to know what each spren was and which order they bonded to.

[Ymawgat]

10 minutes ago, Ookla the Capricious said:

Is it possible that he was looking into the cognitive realm with the perpendicularity so close and seeing the spren of each order? Also, similar to how those who picked up the shard of preservation gained knowledge about how to use it, maybe picking up a portion of Honors power allowed Dalinar to know what each spren was and which order they bonded to.

Yeah him looking into the cognitive realm seems very likely now that you mention it.

The text itself goes:

"Skybreaker, Dalinar thought, counting them off. Edgedancer. That made seven.

He would have expected three more.

....

Those two only make nine, he thought to the Stormfather. Something told him that there should be one more."

[RShara she/her]

Dalinar had just Ascended, and was holding the Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual Realms together.  He's basically a Sliver at that point.  With the power comes knowledge, and glimpses into the Spiritual Realm as well.  It's quite possible that he is seeing hints of the time that's been foretold in the death rattle:

Quote

“ Ten people, with Shardblades alight, standing before a wall of black and white and red. ”

That power and knowledge should also allow him to see and instinctively know who belongs in what Order.