LordMistbornII Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 As I read Oathbringer, I got really excited about something that may seem insignificant and I think people are glossing over it (although, there may be a thread that I was unable to find - If so let me know!). In chapter 81 of Oathbringer, we find out about how the Wall Guard was able to Soulcast food without the Screamers noticing. Hoid had brought a metal, which almost certainly is aluminum, to Kholinar and told Azure to only do Soulcasting inside a room lined with it. And Spanreeds were unable to connect to the outside. This in itself made me super excited. Aluminum on Roshar! Hoid is brilliant. Okay, but it made me wonder. Aluminum is extremely valuable for its abilities to block emotional allomancy, and if it can block all kinds of long distance investiture and such, that's amazing. And aluminum is hard to produce, at least basically everywhere in the Cosmere at this point in time, but it won't always be that way. Aluminum was once one of the most difficult metals to purify in our world, but now it is ubiquitous, this makes me wonder about the massive economic and investiture/magic advantage a world will have once it can refine aluminum easily. I think that the power of aluminum will be fascinating, particularly as it has only done relatively small things so far. And at some point, it will be common. There could even be things like aluminum tanks! What do you all think about this? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmosiman Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 I think this will definitely become an issue/advantage on more technologically advanced worlds. The biggest issue with Aluminum production is electric energy consumption. The smelting plants in my area have their own electric plants on site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhargreaves he/him Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 Have you read the Wax & Wayne (Mistborn series 2) books yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMistbornII Posted November 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 @shawnhargreaves Yeah, I have. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhargreaves he/him Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 Mistborn spoilers: Spoiler Increasing use of aluminum, and high costs of producing it, are an increasing theme in those books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egomere Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 But did Hoid travel to ... damnation I've forgotten what the Mistborn world is called (is it Scadrial?) to collect some Aluminum soley for the purpose of helping out Roshar or did he work some of magic to create it on Roshar away from prying eyes... I mean I'm not sure how he got an entire cart of the stuff from 1 world to another. As well as when did he do so? He's immortal but can;t turn back time so travelling to seperate worlds must have taken him alot of time (not sure about effort - how hard is it for him to worldhop?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmithki Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Egomere said: But did Hoid travel to ... damnation I've forgotten what the Mistborn world is called (is it Scadrial?) to collect some Aluminum soley for the purpose of helping out Roshar or did he work some of magic to create it on Roshar away from prying eyes... I mean I'm not sure how he got an entire cart of the stuff from 1 world to another. As well as when did he do so? He's immortal but can;t turn back time so travelling to seperate worlds must have taken him alot of time (not sure about effort - how hard is it for him to worldhop?). It doesn't take to long to worldhop in theory, in shadesmar distance is relative to amount of stuff with identity as far as i know, so the space between planets is actually pretty small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah he/him Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 You can Soulcast Aluminium I think. It's mentioned by name in one of Stormlight Archive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stairdweller he/him Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Yep. Shallan's necklace (the one she strangled her father with) was aluminum. When she is trying to buy Asha Jushu back from his loan shark, she offers the necklace in trade. The loan shark's clerk appraises it at 10 emerald broams because it can only be made by soulcasting. Chapter 48 of Words of Radiance, pages 561-562. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulminato he/him Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 i think any common metal can hide the soulcasting, both ruin (ati), and preservation (vin) looking a some pure metal see only a sheer of light. a room full plated of metal is the thrick rashek use to hidden the atium gathered in the pits of hathsin in the 'kandra' reserve to ruin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 23 hours ago, kmosiman said: I think this will definitely become an issue/advantage on more technologically advanced worlds. The biggest issue with Aluminum production is electric energy consumption. The smelting plants in my area have their own electric plants on site. That's actually not that special. The salt purification plant I almost live next to also has it's own power plant. It's mostly that the scale of most chemical processes is absolutely huge. 3 minutes ago, Fulminato said: i think any common metal can hide the soulcasting, both ruin (ati), and preservation (vin) looking a some pure metal see only a sheer of light. That's because metal is special on Scadrial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stairdweller he/him Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Are we sure that the shielding metal is aluminum? There's a passage in chapter 100 that I think is the best evidence. Taravangian says that there are legends of a metal that can block shardblades. It's like silver "but somehow lighter" and falls from the sky. So, a couple of issues. Aluminum does exist on Roshar. Has no-one stumbled upon it blocking shadblades? I also don't know if aluminum commonly occurs in meteorites (how I interpret the falling from the sky comment.) And light weight is the first thing everyone notices about aluminum, but are we sure he means "not as heavy" and not "paler?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah he/him Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Just now, Stairdweller said: Are we sure that the shielding metal is aluminum? There's a passage in chapter 100 that I think is the best evidence. Taravangian says that there are legends of a metal that can block shardblades. It's like silver "but somehow lighter" and falls from the sky. So, a couple of issues. Aluminum does exist on Roshar. Has no-one stumbled upon it blocking shadblades? I also don't know if aluminum commonly occurs in meteorites (how I interpret the falling from the sky comment.) And light weight is the first thing everyone notices about aluminum, but are we sure he means "not as heavy" and not "paler?" Aluminium does block Shardblades, does it not? That's why the Alumnium safety clips they put on to train with them work, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah he/him Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 https://coppermind.net/wiki/Aluminum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stairdweller he/him Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Erm... the sources are a lot more inconclusive than the text seems to indicate. So, it's not impossible that we just haven't seen a viewpoint character with enough inworld knowledge to recognize that the shardblade-safetyguard metal is aluminum. EG Shallan understands condensation but "cold makes water!?" is confusing nonsense to Kaladin; if we only had Kal's perspective we might think Roshar doesn't understand this Science Fact. But... I'm still suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah he/him Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 We do have WOBs that Alumnium blocks Shardblades there though... and Aluminium is famously light AND pale. And found in most of earth's meteorites (but not as a metal). And forms, thematically, the colour and structure of almost every gem stone. Again, it's the most logically likely candidate, explicitly rare on Roshar so why would people have checked to see in modern times whether it blocks Shardblades? People who could afford a whole suit of the stuff are probably the people who already have Plate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 1 hour ago, IndigoAjah said: Aluminium does block Shardblades, does it not? That's why the Alumnium safety clips they put on to train with them work, no? There are conflicting WoBs on the matter. And the blade guards can't be aluminum. They appear to be invested. They are fragile and easily breakable when not attached to a blade and they literally change shape to conform to the blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahak he/him Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 On 22/11/2017 at 9:23 PM, Egomere said: But did Hoid travel to ... damnation I've forgotten what the Mistborn world is called (is it Scadrial?) to collect some Aluminum soley for the purpose of helping out Roshar or did he work some of magic to create it on Roshar away from prying eyes... There is at least one soulcaster(as in device) on Roshar that can make aluminium. Lin gave Shallan anecklace of it and the gamblers her brother owes aren't particularlly impressed by its value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasGage Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 16 hours ago, Calderis said: And the blade guards can't be aluminum. They appear to be invested. They are fragile and easily breakable when not attached to a blade and they literally change shape to conform to the blade I always assumed it was essentially aluminium foil like we use for cooking. I mean, that can be torn and shaped by hand. On that note, my cat loves chasing after balled-up aluminium foil so I'm waiting for something like that to show up in the cosmere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egomere Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 45 minutes ago, PhineasGage said: I always assumed it was essentially aluminium foil like we use for cooking. I mean, that can be torn and shaped by hand. On that note, my cat loves chasing after balled-up aluminium foil so I'm waiting for something like that to show up in the cosmere. You mean shardblades which cut right through flesh and blood and stone can be defeated by a roll of aluminum foil... hmmm.... I've never been quite certain on what the bladeguards actually are tbh... maybe some really malleable form of acrylic (or a Roshar equivilent).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMistbornII Posted November 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Egomere said: You mean shardblades which cut right through flesh and blood and stone can be defeated by a roll of aluminum foil... hmmm.... I've never been quite certain on what the bladeguards actually are tbh... maybe some really malleable form of acrylic (or a Roshar equivilent).... A thick aluminum can block a shardblade according to WoB, anything like aluminum foil would be cut just because the shardblade is sharp enough/swung hard enough to break it. See the coppermind on aluminum for some basic aluminum stuff: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Aluminum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightFrost Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 You know I doubt anyone has tried to block a shardblade with aluminium I mean if it can only be made by a soulcaster not many people could have it plus since aluminium is so soft no one would use it for decoration or armor and it they did it would probably be a thin layer so anyone tying to cut it would not notice a difference. Plus everybody knows that shardblades can cut through anything so why try to block it with a super soft metal? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 9 hours ago, LordMistbornII said: A thick aluminum can block a shardblade according to WoB, anything like aluminum foil would be cut just because the shardblade is sharp enough/swung hard enough to break it. See the coppermind on aluminum for some basic aluminum stuff: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Aluminum As the one who created the Roshar subheading on the Aluminum page, allow me to say that it's not a guaranteed thing yet. On 11/8/2017 at 6:31 PM, The One Who Connects said: Have a flow chart of the subject: From Brandon(Oct 10, 2015): Quote WayneSpren Can Shardblades cut aluminum?" Brandon Sanderson "Well-um-yes, yes they can." From Brandon(Feb 1, 2017): Quote Bridge4AM: What would happen if you tried to cut aluminum with a shardblade and as a follow-up how significant is it that Nightblood has a metal sheath? Brandon: It is significant, and a shardblade would not cut aluminum. From Brandon(Feb 3, 2017): Quote Yata: Hi, the Community has a doubt, We have two WoB: Shardblades cut Aluminum, Shardblades can't cut it. Which one is true one? Brandon: Hm. Yes, I wondered last night if I'd ever answered this before. Truth is, the answer is contentious at Team Sanderson.Brandon: I've been pushing for one answer, but Peter (whom I trust) is pushing back. We will see what ends up in the books as canon.Brandon: Problem with magic like I do is sometimes you have to wait for the scientific consensus... Err on "no" for now From Peter(February 6, 2017): Quote Peter: Oh, I think Aluminum would stop Shardblades from magical cutting. But if it's too thin like foil, a sword... The status of the subject is still very much up for debate, and will likely remain that way until Brandon puts Shardblade vs Aluminum into a book. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Oblivion Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 13 hours ago, NightFrost said: You know I doubt anyone has tried to block a shardblade with aluminium I mean if it can only be made by a soulcaster not many people could have it plus since aluminium is so soft no one would use it for decoration or armor and it they did it would probably be a thin layer so anyone tying to cut it would not notice a difference. Plus everybody knows that shardblades can cut through anything so why try to block it with a super soft metal? This brings one question to mind.. how pure is soulcast aluminum? If it's incredibly pure then, yeah, it will be soft. But commercial aluminum is generally, at most, 99.6% pure and fairly hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stairdweller he/him Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 On 24/11/2017 at 0:49 PM, NightFrost said: You know I doubt anyone has tried to block a shardblade with aluminium I mean if it can only be made by a soulcaster not many people could have it plus since aluminium is so soft no one would use it for decoration or armor and it they did it would probably be a thin layer so anyone tying to cut it would not notice a difference. Plus everybody knows that shardblades can cut through anything so why try to block it with a super soft metal? People wear aluminum as jewelery often enough for a random crime-clerk to recognise it and venture an appraisal. And people gild things, including armor. So, I don't think "no-one would use it for decorative purposes because it is soft" is an entirely reasonable statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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