AngelDeath Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 It's pretty understandable that the Dawnsinger want revenge on humans. But why would they side with the human's evil god to do it? It would seam like they would hate Odium as much if not more so then humans. Maybe the original human Voidbringers did something to the Dawnsingers they killed that bonded them to Odium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy92 Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 Odium is sly...as the humans gravitated towards Honor and began bonding spren, Odium probably used all of that as ammo for seducing the listeners. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 The answer is obvious. Hemalurgic cookies. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 I guess that the humans abandoned Odium, for obvious reasons. The spren and Honor then preferred the humans. It is stated several times how the spren abandoned the Listeners in favor of the humans. Both the Listeners and Odium were sad and abandoned, and thus, found eachother. I imagine that some Listeners (the dead ancestors) just wanted to remove the humans from Roshar, and took whatever help they could get. Some were probably possessed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchcry he/him Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 My question is more "why would there Skybreakers side with him if the Singers are simply following his law and he's a foreigner?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aditu she/her Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 Hi On 23/11/2017 at 1:01 AM, Toaster Retribution said: I guess that the humans abandoned Odium, for obvious reasons. The spren and Honor then preferred the humans. It is stated several times how the spren abandoned the Listeners in favor of the humans. Both the Listeners and Odium were sad and abandoned, and thus, found eachother. I imagine that some Listeners (the dead ancestors) just wanted to remove the humans from Roshar, and took whatever help they could get. Some were probably possessed as well. But why they would prefer the ex-Odium people? I'm trying to remember if there are some explanations on the books about it, but I can't. I get that Honor allowed the humans to settle because it was de honourable thing to do, but that's all. I really want to know what happened and lead to the exchange of gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaellok he/him Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, Aditu said: Hi But why they would prefer the ex-Odium people? I'm trying to remember if there are some explanations on the books about it, but I can't. I get that Honor allowed the humans to settle because it was de honourable thing to do, but that's all. I really want to know what happened and lead to the exchange of gods. In one of the WoR epigraphs, there's something that says something along the lines of "The humans give spren meat, while the Listeners only give them a thin broth." It is speculated that the reason for this is because Listeners/Dawnsingers/what-have-you (what is their race called?) are much closer to the Cognitive Realm than humans are, and what spren are after is found deep in the Physical Realm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmithki Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, kaellok said: In one of the WoR epigraphs, there's something that says something along the lines of "The humans give spren meat, while the Listeners only give them a thin broth." It is speculated that the reason for this is because Listeners/Dawnsingers/what-have-you (what is their race called?) are much closer to the Cognitive Realm than humans are, and what spren are after is found deep in the Physical Realm. I can't remember the exact quote, but it was closer to "their meat was men, (something about listeners being broth), the (referring to greater Spren like syl) demanded more (then the listeners)" So in essence, for the purposes of Spren, Men > Listeners Edited November 24, 2017 by Blacksmithki 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egomere Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 On 22/11/2017 at 11:48 PM, The Invested Beard said: The answer is obvious. Hemalurgic cookies. He spiked cookies onto them? or cookies that were baked into spikes... which he then spiked them with... or did the cookies contain bloodied metal fragments which passed into system whilst being eaten? .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasGage Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Blacksmithki said: I can't remember the exact quote, but it was closer to "their meat was men, (something about listeners being broth), the (referring to greater Spren like syl) demanded more (then the listeners)" So in essence, for the purposes of Spren, Men > Listeners "The spren betrayed us, it's often felt, Our minds are too close to their realm That gives us out forms, but more is then Demanded by the smartest spren, We can't provide what the humans lend, Though broth are we, their meat is men." From the Listeners Song of Spren, 9th Stanza (epigraph chapter 32, WoR) I think that because humans can express multiple emotions and states at a single time, whereas the listeners are more "locked in" to their forms, a spren would find the experience of bonding a human more rewarding - it could get a wider experience of the physical world. Additionally, a spren bond with a listener used to be (prior to Venli anyway) temporary until the listenser chose to change form - then they'd bond a different spren - so a single spren may lose a great deal of memories as they bounce back and forth from shadesmar. Humans that bond can have more emotional states and don't need to change spren to do so. Edited November 24, 2017 by PhineasGage typo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidWayne he/him Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 I guessing that it has something to do with another translated phrase from the Dawnchant... Quote To be human is to want that which we cannot have. Way of Kings | pg. 853 The human refugees wanted the lands that were not given to them. They wanted gods better than they had. After all, Hoid nailed it when he said that novelty is humanity's most valued quality. So, they expanded into Roshar beyond Shinovar. This caused a war, and it seems like the humans must have won it. The outraged souls of the singers felt so betrayed by the ingratitude and greed of the refugees that their passion attracted the attention of Odium. Much like Gavilar and Dalinar mellowed after their conquests, the victors of the 1st desolation likely turned their thoughts on how to hold the lands they had conquered. In the process, they turned away from passion and towards thoughts of Cultivation & Honor. I'm not sure how fast the shift occurred, but there was a shift and the humans abandoned Odium since what he offered was no longer suited to their purposes. However, the souls of the slaughtered singers would have found Odium's offerings very attractive. So, the next Desolation was the first one where the humans fought against the returned souls of the singers. They repurposed the name "voidbringer" (the name that was originally given to them) and applied it to these creatures who had returned from the void. I imagine that it was during or after this conflict that the Oathpact was established. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aditu she/her Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Thanks all for the meat-broth explanation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts