[OB] A certain character needing to be broken enough to become a radiant

[Reborn radiant]

I have a very basic, probably wrong - in which case feel free to rip me apart -theory on how Adolin is going to be broken enough for him to become a radiant. He seems to be well on the path to atleast partially revive his blade (IMO he already did that in oathbringer) and I am hoping this means he can bond to maya and become an edgedancer, but for him to be a radiant he needs to be broken enough to accommodate a spren into his spirit web, and let's be honest he is no where near broken enough. So, I think he is going to snap.

He is going to Snap, like in mistborn.

Why do Radiants need to be broken? To accommodate for spren in their spririt web. Why do Allomancers need to snap? To let investiture enter their spirit web, atleast that's what I think. 

Here, I think Adolin is more similar to Mistborn (Maya is already there with him, always. She just needs an opening to enter his spirit web) than Radiants who have to stay broken for a while, atleast until they attract and bond with a spren.

So, I can see how it's going to go down if he ever becomes a radiant, he is going to be in a very stressful situation ( Like in Oathbringer when Maya came back to him in 7 heart-beats, he was very stressed then), and boom Radiant.

[Slothspren]

i dont think if he will become a radiant as he is right now, he isn't broken and i assumed that him murdering sadeas would in someway lead to his breaking. but he came out pretty solid out of that. so maybe some other tragedy will cause it. 

[DeployParachute]

Adolin will start to stress and strain under what is sure to be a tumultuous and failing marriage.  And at the end, he'll shatter.  There is no one else at the moment currently in position to break him more than Shallan.  

Edited November 20, 2017 by DeployParachute

[Calderis he/him]

A physical, near death beating is enough to crack the spiritweb in TFE. If your going by that measure I'm sure a spear through the gut, far enough to be bleeding out the back, counts. Gut wounds are painful. 

If your going the emotional side, he lost his mother as a teenager. He lost thousands of men at the Tower, who were either friends he knew personally, or was responsible for. He snapped and killed Sadeas, and since has constantly questioned who he is as a person, and if he's worthy of His father's trust. 

Just because Adolin puts forward a good face, and can deal well enough to function does not mean he's not broken. As I said in another thread today, Lopen appears to deal well too, and he's done it. 

Renarin is broken enough. Jasnah is broken enough. And their lives have been seemingly as cushy as Adolin's. 

Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar are all very extreme examples. That is not what is required. If it were, Urithiru would never have been home to thousands of order members at once. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Calderis

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Calderis said:

A physical, near death beating is enough to crack the spiritweb in TFE. If your going by that measure I'm sure a spear through the gut, far enough to be bleeding out the back, counts. Gut wounds are painful. 

But that also only works if the proto-Allomancer already has Preservation's Investiture waiting for him. As soon as the Spiritweb breaks, this Investiture seeps into the cracks and finalises the Connection to Perservation, but a forming Nahel bond is much, much slower. For that to occur the cracks must be there for a longer time. I'd also argue, that Renarin healing Adolin with Regrowth might have rehealed any cracks that formed from the gut wound. Another thing I'd argue is, that Spiritweb cracks formed purely through physical pain can close after a while (when the pain has subsided), while psychological pains can hold them open for longer, if they really affect you. But that is just speculation on my side.

35 minutes ago, Calderis said:

If your going the emotional side, he lost his mother as a teenager. He lost thousands of men at the Tower, who were either friends he knew personally, or was responsible for. He snapped and killed Sadeas, and since has constantly questioned who he is as a person, and if he's worthy of His father's trust. 

I'm not sure, how much of all that truly affected him. Or, no. For how long it affected him. Some people are just better at dealing with it.

35 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Just because Adolin puts forward a good face, and can deal well enough to function does not mean he's not broken. As I said in another thread today, Lopen appears to deal well too, and he's done it. 

Lopen took the path of being Kaladin's squire, which also grants a Surge, when he is close. I have a theory, that a prerequisite for squireship is, that you have built Connection with the Radiant in question, which then affects your Spiritweb to grant a single Surge, but also to ready it for a Nahel bond. Kind of like burning Lerasium rewrites your Spiritweb to Connect to Preservation, granting you Mistborn powers without Snapping.

35 minutes ago, Calderis said:

That is not what is required. If it were, Urithiru would never have been home to thousands of order members at once. 

I think an ongoing Desolation can create a lot of broken people. Like war always does.

Edited November 20, 2017 by SLNC

[Calderis he/him]

14 minutes ago, SLNC said:

But that also only works if the proto-Allomancer already has Preservation's Investiture waiting for him. As soon as the Spiritweb breaks, this Investiture seeps into the cracks and finalises the Connection to Perservation,

Allomancy is decided at birth, and they technically have that power already. There is no "finalized connection" it just open a pathway. Like the a faucet that's plugged. They already had the ability to turn the faucet on, but the spigot was blocked.

14 minutes ago, SLNC said:

but a forming Nahel bond is much, much slower. For that to occur the cracks must be there for a longer time.

Why would a Nahel bond take more time? There needs to be initial cracks for the Spren to attach to, and then the bond itself grows. Once the Spren is attached, drawn to a person acting accordingly, and possessing the prerequisite cracks, it is there. It's a matter of timing, not time. 

As far as his cracks being healed, I don't think it's possible. For one reason. 

Adolin is already bonded to the blade. That fact that it is Awakening should mean that it is already attached to his soul, and that he is just altering that bond to what it should be. 

For a spren to be healed by its Radiant, they have to find the words, and restore their broken oaths. 

For a non-traditional to restore a dead blade, they have to do exactly what Adolin appears to be doing, growing to replace the Radiant that abandoned the Spren. It shouldn't be possible without being bonded to it. It also shouldn't be possible without becoming a Radiant. The Nahel bond is what killed the Spren. It's what must be restored to revive them. 

Maya responding at all should mean that Adolin is progressing as an Edgedancer, and will just denied his powers until he reaches the third oath to restore her. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Allomancy is decided at birth, and they technically have that power already. There is no "finalized connection" it just open a pathway. Like the a faucet that's plugged. They already had the ability to turn the faucet on, but the spigot was blocked.

Now you're arguing semantics.

9 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Maya responding at all should mean that Adolin is progressing as an Edgedancer, and will just denied his powers until he reaches the third oath to restore her.

And Oathbringer remembers Dalinar's oaths, thus doesn't scream, when he touches it - rather just whimpers. I have no doubt, that Maya and Adolin have built Connection, but I don't know if that is what resembles a forming Nahel bond. It seems so easy, when Brandon always reemphasized, that it would be very difficult for another person than the original Radiant.

Edited November 20, 2017 by SLNC

[frozndevl]

I think what will happen is that Adolin will receive Maya, but will only be able to instantly summon/ talk to her, but.notndorm the bond. I think they become justngood friends... with benefits. And.by benefits I mean an overpowered sword and enhanced cognition.

[Calderis he/him]

6 minutes ago, SLNC said:

And Oathbringer remembers Dalinar's oaths. I have no doubt, that Maya and Adolin have built Connection, but I don't know if that is what resembles a forming Nahel bond.

Dalinar was never able to hear Oathbringer scream until after he formed a Nahel bond. No one has been shown to hear anything from a blade period, unless they had a Nahel bond, or someone with one was touching the blade at the same time. 

Now Adolin has heard the name, and emotions from the blade itself, and has summoned the blade in less than the 10 seconds required. She also acted in Shadesmar to intentionally protect him, when deadeyes are supposed to wander listlessly. 

If Adolin is not forming a Nahel bond, he should not be able to hear anything from a blade. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Calderis

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Now Adolin has heard the name, and emotions from the blade itself, and has summoned the blade in less than the 10 seconds required. She also acted in Shadesmar to intentionally protect him, when deadeyes are supposed to wander listlessly. 

If Adolin is not forming a Nahel bond, he should not be able to hear anything from a blade. 

I think that is just Spiritual Connection.

[1stShard]

My hope is Andolin will bond Maya, and there is still scope for him to go through the required amount of stress and strain to become broken. IT could happen because of  Dalinar, since both Andolin and Renarin are not aware that it was Dalinar who killed Evi.

 

. 

[Storyspren]

Calling it now. Shallan dies and Adolin swears five oaths at once or something.

[jamskinner]

13 hours ago, Calderis said:

Dalinar was never able to hear Oathbringer scream until after he formed a Nahel bond. No one has been shown to hear anything from a blade period, unless they had a Nahel bond, or someone with one was touching the blade at the same time. 

Now Adolin has heard the name, and emotions from the blade itself, and has summoned the blade in less than the 10 seconds required. She also acted in Shadesmar to intentionally protect him, when deadeyes are supposed to wander listlessly. 

If Adolin is not forming a Nahel bond, he should not be able to hear anything from a blade. 

You got a quote to back that up or just supostition?

[Calderis he/him]

42 minutes ago, jamskinner said:

You got a quote to back that up or just supostition?

The story itself so far? Other than what just happened with Adolin, blades have been silent other than when touched by someone with a Nahel bond. 

And there's not even rumors of blades screaming or speaking since the Recreance. They are viewed completely as objects. Not even a hint of a rumor in book of anything like this ever happening previously. 

Seems fairly straightforward to me. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Calderis

[Govir]

I'm pretty sure there's a WoB that says you don't have to be broken for the various magic systems, you just need to expand your soul. Surviving a lot of different trauma can cause this, but it's not the only way. Trying to find the WoB now.

[AbsentKeeper he/him]

6 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Seems fairly straightforward to me. 

I agree, I'm not sure why people are arguing this.

Here are the quotes for him hearing the blade, and summoning it in less than 10 seconds, for reference:

Quote

He felt something. A stirring on the wind.

“You want to fight it, don’t you?” Adolin asked. “It reminds you of when you were alive.”

Something tickled his mind, very faint, like a sigh. A single word: Mayalaran. A … name?

Quote

Seven.

Maya! he thought, truly desperate. Please!

Blessedly, as he raised his hands, the Blade materialized. 

If its an issue of it not being difficult enough, in order to get to the point he's at has required him to: wield the blade for years, talk to it like a person before every fight, have personal ideals that match the original order of the blade, travel to Shadesmar and see the blade's spren as it really is, and then continue to treat the deadeyes like a friend rather than be repulsed or afraid of it.

I also don't think 'brokeness' is really a problem. The threshold seems to be much lower than people are assuming. Even if you want to discount the squires as something different (which I really don't think they are) then what about Lift? She is easily the most upbeat and consistently silly character in the series. Granted we don't know that much about her past, but her main internal struggle seems to be 'I don't want to grow up,' which I feel like is something almost all kids go through, not exactly world shattering trauma material.

[Calderis he/him]

34 minutes ago, Cowmanthethird said:

I agree, I'm not sure why people are arguing this.

Here are the quotes for him hearing the blade, and summoning it in less than 10 seconds, for reference:

If its an issue of it not being difficult enough, in order to get to the point he's at has required him to: wield the blade for years, talk to it like a person before every fight, have personal ideals that match the original order of the blade, travel to Shadesmar and see the blade's spren as it really is, and then continue to treat the deadeyes like a friend rather than be repulsed or afraid of it.

Yeah. I agree completely. 

36 minutes ago, Cowmanthethird said:

I also don't think 'brokeness' is really a problem. The threshold seems to be much lower than people are assuming. Even if you want to discount the squires as something different (which I really don't think they are) then what about Lift? She is easily the most upbeat and consistently silly character in the series. Granted we don't know that much about her past, but her main internal struggle seems to be 'I don't want to grow up,' which I feel like is something almost all kids go through, not exactly world shattering trauma material.

While I completely agree with your point, Lift is not a good example. The whole orphan on the street with a dead mother is definitely closer to the Kaladin end of broken. 

[shawnhargreaves he/him]

16 hours ago, Calderis said:

Renarin is broken enough. Jasnah is broken enough. And their lives have been seemingly as cushy as Adolin's.

Huh, that wasn't my impression at all.

Dalinar was not a great father to either of his boys.  Distant both physically and emotionally, and later on an alcoholic who was unable (for reasons we understand but they did not) to even mention the sudden death of their mother.  But he was much closer to Adolin than to Renarin: spending time with him, teaching skills, bonding over shared interests, etc, while Renarin stayed home in the capital.  Adolin was popular, good at things the Alethi valued, and had a solid relationship with both his parents.  Meanwhile Renarin was sickly, strange, and neglected by his dad.

And Jasnah?  We don't know her backstory yet (I can't wait to read it!) but I fear it's going to be ugly.  She has a powerful anger at the world, although her logic mostly lets her keep that hidden.  Several times she says or things things along the lines of not understanding why anyone would ever want to get married.  She REALLY hates Amaram, despite Gavilar having tried to set them up together.  I have a nasty suspicion that Amaram may have molested/raped her.

I don't think anything like this happened to Adolin, for instance:

Quote

Glimmers of memory from a dark room, screaming her voice ragged. A childhood illness nobody else seemed to remember, for all it had done to her. It had taught her that people she loved could still hurt her.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by shawnhargreaves

[AbsentKeeper he/him]

17 hours ago, Calderis said:

 Lift is not a good example. The whole orphan on the street with a dead mother is definitely closer to the Kaladin end of broken. 

I suppose it sounds bad when you put it that way, I was thinking more about the perception side of it though. She doesn't seem mentally broken by whatever happened like Kaladin is.

Conversely, Kaladin's life wasn't really all that hard. Other than Tien dying (which is horrible, but everyone looses a family member at some point) everything bad that happens to him is after he begins bonding Syl, as she mentions that she was already with him in Amaram's army. Kaladin's depression is what makes him seem so broken to me, not any of the things that happened to him, and Lift is directly contrary to that.

Edit: Just like Lopen, presumably whatever happened to his arm was horrific, but it doesn't seem to bother him.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Cowmanthethird

[Reborn radiant]

On 20/11/2017 at 2:39 PM, Storyspren said:

Calling it now. Shallan dies and Adolin swears five oaths at once or something.

I am calling it now, Shallan is going to go Dark ( like on odium's side ) and adolin is going to be Honor's champion and they will fight using pillows to descite fate of roshar.