[OB] Adolin-Shallan-Kaladin Discussion

[Furry-And-Lovable-Grover he/him]

@Kav That's why I'm not trying to get sucked in here. lol

[DeployParachute]

7 minutes ago, Furry-And-Lovable-Grover said:

@Kav That's why I'm not trying to get sucked in here. lol

Too late, you're ours now....*evil laughing ensues*

[JamesMc6]

 I want to jump in here--which is probably jumping back 75 pages or so in this thread--and talk about the Kaladin and Syl discussion about "losing" Shallan and the "ooooh, pretty!" rock. You all know the scene I'm talking about. I just come across it again on my reread of OB and it's got me frustrated. The first time I read it I really thought Kaladin was saying Shallan reminded him of Syl. And it might be foreshadowing a romance with Syl- and before you start I'm not shipping Syladin here, and I wasn't when I first read it. That was just how I interpreted the scene my first time through.

Okay, when I mentioned my interpretation of the scene here in the forums I got a lot of "yes, that's how I read it too," but also got a lot of "no, Kaladin was comparing Shallan to Tien." Well, on my reread yes I finally got the Tien connection because my memory was jogged about Tien loving rocks and always lightened Kaladin's mood. My frustration is that unless BranSan mentions Tien's mood lightening rocks earlier in OB and I missed it, then that is a very old, and some might say obscure callback for that very, very important scene. Frustrating. And truthfully, after rereading it a couple of time I'm still not sure which interpretation is correct and it seems like it has to be one or the other. Or could it be neither?

Sorry, I'm not trying to reopen any cans of worms, but it does seem relevant to this thread. Anyone else frustrated with the ambiguity of this scene?

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Brightlord Brooding Eyes said:

 I want to jump in here--which is probably jumping back 75 pages or so in this thread--and talk about the Kaladin and Syl discussion about "losing" Shallan and the "ooooh, pretty!" rock. You all know the scene I'm talking about. I just come across it again on my reread of OB and it's got me frustrated. The first time I read it I really thought Kaladin was saying Shallan reminded him of Syl. And it might be foreshadowing a romance with Syl- and before you start I'm not shipping Syladin here, and I wasn't when I first read it. That was just how I interpreted the scene my first time through.

Okay, when I mentioned my interpretation of the scene here in the forums I got a lot of "yes, that's how I read it too," but also got a lot of "no, Kaladin was comparing Shallan to Tien." Well, on my reread yes I finally got the Tien connection because my memory was jogged about Tien loving rocks and always lightened Kaladin's mood. My frustration is that unless BranSan mentions Tien's mood lightening rocks earlier in OB and I missed it, then that is a very old, and some might say obscure callback for that very, very important scene. Frustrating. And truthfully, after rereading it a couple of time I'm still not sure which interpretation is correct and it seems like it has to be one or the other. Or could it be neither?

Sorry, I'm not trying to reopen any cans of worms, but it does seem relevant to this thread. Anyone else frustrated with the ambiguity of this scene?

No, I am pretty sure, that it is supposed to be an allusion to Tien, but I can understand, that if someone forgot the connection between the colored stone and Tien, it seems pretty ambiguous. What really annoyed me about the scene was how it was portrayed as some kind of new revelation to Kaladin, when he already compared Shallan to Tien in the chasms during WoR. Which, for me, more makes it seem like another forced repression of his feelings for Shallan, like he has been doing throughout OB already, instead of providing closure.

There could be more to it. If you want to read more about it, I'd like to refer you to this excellent post by @DeployParachute:

 

Edited January 11, 2018 by SLNC

[Rainier]

3 hours ago, SLNC said:

Another thing, I know there is all this low self-esteem stuff, that I personally don't really buy, but if he truly were in love with Shallan... Wouldn't he fight for her and not just give her up, especially after searching so long for the right one? Wouldn't he get angry (internally not externally) at seeing Shallan leering at Kaladin?

This is what bothered me too. Adolin has already let Shallan go. He's already given her up. This might be him resigned to something he feels is beyond his control, but I agree with your questions. If I were Adolin, and I actually liked my betrothed and wanted to marry her, I'd be pissed if I caught her making moon eyes at the bridgeboy. Confrontation of some sort would be inevitable. Instead it seems like Adolin knows the betrothal isn't really serious and can see the writing on the wall. He's protecting himself from getting hurt. Unfortunately Shallan pushed past his hesitation and I think Adolin is going to get hurt because of it.

47 minutes ago, Brightlord Brooding Eyes said:

And truthfully, after rereading it a couple of time I'm still not sure which interpretation is correct and it seems like it has to be one or the other. Or could it be neither?

27 minutes ago, SLNC said:

There could be more to it. If you want to read more about it, I'd like to refer you to this excellent post by @DeployParachute:

I'm going to second this recommendation without following the link because I know what it says and I agree. I think the rock is the figurative weight of the people who Kaladin has failed. The weight of his failures and the deaths on his conscience. The lightening of that burden is what he felt with Tien, and it's also what he feels with Syl and with Shallan. It's all connected.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Rainier

[GoddessIMHO]

Sorry, veering off topic here. I was really surprised at the WOB someone posted several pages back. I TOTALLY missed that Shallan had a gay/bi type of reaction to Jasnah. I thought there was hero worship for a time sure, but I missed the rest.

On the bromance, Adolin and Kaladin had both been brought up to be a certain type of person with a specific career. Both of them were being shaped by their station in life and then the war more than what they might have wanted. You are what your dad was if you are a son, especially a first born son, but Kaladin rejected that and become a soldier while Adolin just accepted it. Both of them wanted relationships. Both of them have younger brothers they feel responsible for. I do think that Adolin looks at Kaladin and sees him as MORE. But Kaladin respects him also.

I could totally have seen a scenario where they Both gave up Shallan for the other guy.

[Dreamstorm]

31 minutes ago, GoddessIMHO said:

On the bromance, Adolin and Kaladin had both been brought up to be a certain type of person with a specific career. Both of them were being shaped by their station in life and then the war more than what they might have wanted. You are what your dad was if you are a son, especially a first born son, but Kaladin rejected that and become a soldier while Adolin just accepted it. Both of them wanted relationships. Both of them have younger brothers they feel responsible for. I do think that Adolin looks at Kaladin and sees him as MORE. But Kaladin respects him also.

I could totally have seen a scenario where they Both gave up Shallan for the other guy.

I genuinely thought this was where things were headed post WoR (before I knew anything about Brandon), and it was so sad to have my hopes dashed. I could maybe (HUGE maybe maybe maybe) see Adolin being bi and having that explored (the guy does seem to be quite attracted to Kaladin), but there's no way Brandon's going to make his main character anything but hetero. Even if Brandon was ready for it (he's said he's not ready to do viewpoints of a gay character hence my doubt he'd make Adolin anything but hetero also), his American audience sadly is not. It's sad - Adolin and Kaladin IMO have the most fun set up (I know it gets maligned here a lot in reference to Shalladin, but I love a good "braided rose" romance) and the best chemistry. They are so supportive of and intuitive about each other. The cuteness of Adolin's Bridge Four salute. Kaladin's indignation over the wall guard making fun of Adolin. Adolin starry eyes over every time Kaladin uses his powers. I could go on 

If anyone else has read Rainbow Rowell's Carry On, Adolin and Kaladin remind me of Baz and Simon a bit. And I love, love that book!

[Rainier]

2 hours ago, GoddessIMHO said:

I TOTALLY missed that Shallan had a gay/bi type of reaction to Jasnah. I thought there was hero worship for a time sure, but I missed the rest.

I kinda forgot about this on previous reads, but on my re-read before Oathbringer it stood out strongly to me. The scene where Shallan finally steals the soulcaster is preceded by a lot of description of Jasnah's naked body. Then when she creates Radiant she specifically makes her bustier, like Jasnah. In between are enough side remarks about her beauty. I don't know if it's envy or sexual attraction or both, but Shallan is inordinately interested in Jasnah's figure.

Jasnah is slightly out of scope of this thread (as much as anything can be 77 pages deep), but my personal theory is that her trauma from childhood left her asexual, and her logical and rigorous mind (stripped of emotion and passion) attracted the Inkspren in the first place. They seem to value reliability and find humans unpredictable mostly due to their emotions, which explains a lot of Jasnah's peculiarities.

I don't see their relationship changing in that way, but I am interested in how their relationship changes. We've already seen some of it, as Shallan is stuck is this weird place where she's a ward but also a Radiant, so in some cases she's subservient and in others she's equal to Jasnah in being superior to others. Now Jasnah is the Queen, and Shallan is her cousin-in-law, so we've got yet more roles for them to play around each other. I didn't much like Shallan's chapters in TWoK, but I was hoping for more Shallan/Jasnah scenes. Obviously WoR did not deliver, and while OB gave us some, I still feel more than a book behind.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Rainier

[wotbibliophile]

I think Jasnah is still on topic because she is a romantic interest of Shallan. I have been thinking that Veil might still flirt with Kaladin because she will claim Shallan is married but she is not. But maybe Shallan will avoid Kaladin altogether like she sort of implied she would to Adolin. Instead she suddenly gets super flirty with Jasnah and Jasnah just won't get it because Jasnah does not pick up on some cues.

[Vissy]

4 hours ago, Brightlord Brooding Eyes said:

 I want to jump in here--which is probably jumping back 75 pages or so in this thread--and talk about the Kaladin and Syl discussion about "losing" Shallan and the "ooooh, pretty!" rock. You all know the scene I'm talking about. I just come across it again on my reread of OB and it's got me frustrated. The first time I read it I really thought Kaladin was saying Shallan reminded him of Syl. And it might be foreshadowing a romance with Syl- and before you start I'm not shipping Syladin here, and I wasn't when I first read it. That was just how I interpreted the scene my first time through.

Okay, when I mentioned my interpretation of the scene here in the forums I got a lot of "yes, that's how I read it too," but also got a lot of "no, Kaladin was comparing Shallan to Tien." Well, on my reread yes I finally got the Tien connection because my memory was jogged about Tien loving rocks and always lightened Kaladin's mood. My frustration is that unless BranSan mentions Tien's mood lightening rocks earlier in OB and I missed it, then that is a very old, and some might say obscure callback for that very, very important scene. Frustrating. And truthfully, after rereading it a couple of time I'm still not sure which interpretation is correct and it seems like it has to be one or the other. Or could it be neither?

Sorry, I'm not trying to reopen any cans of worms, but it does seem relevant to this thread. Anyone else frustrated with the ambiguity of this scene?

I had the same first thought as well! I do have to disagree a little with @SLNC - I think it might just as well be a Tien allusion as a nod to Syladin, or perhaps both..

6 hours ago, Furry-And-Lovable-Grover said:

@Kav That's why I'm not trying to get sucked in here. lol

One of us..

Edited January 12, 2018 by Vissy

[Humming]

Wow, so many replies these days! I had to catch up.

Was this 'braided roses' thing discussed in the thread? I thing I've read about it but I can't find the page...

[Rainier]

48 minutes ago, Humming said:

Was this 'braided roses' thing discussed in the thread? I thing I've read about it but I can't find the page...

I'm not even going to try to find the page, but it's a reference to one of Brandon's writing classes about how to write a romance. The braided roses indicates that when the characters first meet it's all about the thorns before eventually becoming intimate. 

Here's what I found for the video, he says braided rose at around 5:50. There may be more, but this is where it comes from.

 

[Humming]

@Rainier Thank you! I'll listen to the video while I dive a bit in the thread

[Dreamstorm]

1 hour ago, Humming said:

Was this 'braided roses' thing discussed in the thread? I thing I've read about it but I can't find the page...

It came from a Brandon lecture video (originally posted by @mariapapadia): https://youtu.be/V9cdgE6FjRs?t=1h2m10s.  If you go back to the 56/57 minute mark you can get the whole discussion on romance, including commentary on "Twilight emotions" being realistic for teenagers but they won't last and a realistic romance taking a lot of time to make it work.  (I personally think both of those latter points tie into this arc.) (Ninja'd by @Rainier on this!)

On another note, I finished my OB re-read last night, and this passage really stuck out for me on why Shallan needs Veil and Radiant in order to access her true potential; she could not have raised the Thaylen City "army" without them.  More pointedly, she cannot face her memories of her mother without them.  Related, this was when she decides she doesn't need to fracture further, which IMO is the "step forward" Brandon is talking about in the WoB.

Quote

Her father stepped from the Light. And her mother. 

The illusions immediately started to fail, melting back to Light. Then, someone seized her by the left hand. 

Shallan gasped. Forming from mist was … was Veil? With long straight black hair, white clothing, brown eyes. Wiser than Shallan—and more focused. Capable of working on small pieces when Shallan grew overwhelmed by the large scale of her work. 

Another hand took Shallan’s on the right. Radiant, in glowing garnet Shardplate, tall, with braided hair. Reserved and cautious. She nodded to Shallan with a steady, determined look. 

Others boiled at Shallan’s feet, trying to crawl from the Stormlight, their glowing hands grabbing at her legs. 

“… No,” Shallan whispered. 

This was enough. She had created Veil and Radiant to be strong when she was weak. She squeezed their hands tight, then hissed out slowly. The other versions of Shallan retreated into the Stormlight. 

Then, farther out, figures by the hundred surged from the ground and raised weapons at the enemy.

OB, Ch. 102, The Spear That Would Not Break

On the much sillier (and likely inconsequential) side, I looked into when Shallan mentioned Kaladin or Adolin first in her viewpoints.  (I first noticed this when Hoid asks Shallan who is in Kholinar, and Shallan mentions Kaladin first.  This struck me as odd because wouldn't Adolin - her betrothed - or Elhokar - the king - be a more natural first mention?)  Statistics below... I personally think it could be meaningful she mentions Kaladin first to Hoid and thinks of Kaladin first with the safehand embarrassment, but besides that it can easily be attributed to Kaladin being the main character who Brandon thinks about first.

• Kaladin before Adolin (5 times of 6)
  • Ch 61, Nightmare Made Manifest (2x): once when discussing faces she will be lightweaving on them ("'All right,' Shallan said, turning to Kaladin and Adolin. 'You two will get new faces [....]'"), once when discussing following each other into the city ("Elhokar followed as Kaladin and Adolin continued forward - and so did Shallan")
  • Ch 62, Research: when noting who she exposed her safehand to ("not just the king, but Kaladin and Adolin")
  • Ch 68, Aim for the Sun: aforementioned noting to Hoid who came with her to Kholinar ("'Who came with you to the city?' he asked her.  'Kaladin. Adolin. Elhokar. Some of our servants.'")
  • Ch 118, The Wrong Passion: when noting they are standing besides her when looking at the Thaylen City oathgate ("Kaladin and Adolin stood like two statues to either side of her")
• Adolin before Kaladin (1 time of 6)
  • Ch 62, Research: noting who is staying to discuss plans ("Adolin and Kaladin stayed in the showroom to talk quietly about the Wall Guard")

Edited January 12, 2018 by Dreamstorm
Ninja'd by Rainier! I think that video is a clip of the longer one, though not totally sure.

[DeployParachute]

Excellent post, @Dreamstorm.  I think that definitely lends more weight to the side of the argument that Radiant and Veil are indeed pieces of her that she needs to be whole.  

Also, was thinking to myself this morning: I'd like to put forth a motion to rebrand "personaShallan" into "Shallan Kholin", since that is indeed what she is, and no longer Shallan Davar (what she was in WoK and WoR).  She is the part of the whole Shallan that could be married to Adolin, so calling her a Kholin seems to fit.

[Dreamstorm]

1 hour ago, DeployParachute said:

Also, was thinking to myself this morning: I'd like to put forth a motion to rebrand "personaShallan" into "Shallan Kholin", since that is indeed what she is, and no longer Shallan Davar (what she was in WoK and WoR).  She is the part of the whole Shallan that could be married to Adolin, so calling her a Kholin seems to fit.

I like it!  Will be her official name when we next see her too (unless a divorce happens off screen which I can't imagine and wouldn't want but would also delight me at the same time.)

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Dreamstorm said:

Will be her official name when we next see her too

But doesn't make it that extra confusing? We coined the term "personaShallan" to distinguish between the personality and, well, Shallan, as in all of her personalities combined. Pre-Oathbringer.

[Dreamstorm]

6 minutes ago, SLNC said:

But doesn't make it that extra confusing? We coined the term "personaShallan" to distinguish between the personality and, well, Shallan, as in all of her personalities combined. Pre-Oathbringer.

Not if you think of it that only Shallan Kholin actually entered into the marriage, i.e. Shallan Davar is composed of Shallan Kholin, Veil and Radiant.  I mean, personaShallan (or what have you) was the only one attending the wedding ceremony, i.e. the "celebration of being herself."  And Veil and Adolin we know won't be sharing a marriage bed...  (Honestly, I'm just kind of arguing for the sake of it, but I do like the idea that it's really only "Shallan", i.e. Shallan Kholin, who commits to Adolin.)  Ha - funny question to ask Brandon:  Would Veil consider herself married to Adolin?  Would Radiant?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Dreamstorm said:

Not if you think of it that only Shallan Kholin actually entered into the marriage, i.e. Shallan Davar is composed of Shallan Kholin, Veil and Radiant.  I mean, personaShallan (or what have you) was the only one attending the wedding ceremony, i.e. the "celebration of being herself."  And Veil and Adolin we know won't be sharing a marriage bed...  (Honestly, I'm just kind of arguing for the sake of it, but I do like the idea that it's really only "Shallan", i.e. Shallan Kholin, who commits to Adolin.)  Ha - funny question to ask Brandon:  Would Veil consider herself married to Adolin?  Would Radiant?

Oh, I'm pretty sure, that is what we should take away from it. Well, maybe Radiant does commit too, but if she does only out of pragmatism. Veil's lack of commitment was pretty clear, I think. ("Well, he's good for you, I suppose.")

Regarding the naming thing: I dunno, it kinda seems overcomplicating things

Edited January 12, 2018 by SLNC

[DeployParachute]

2 hours ago, SLNC said:

But doesn't make it that extra confusing? We coined the term "personaShallan" to distinguish between the personality and, well, Shallan, as in all of her personalities combined. Pre-Oathbringer.

The way I see it is:
Shallan Davar = the whole and made up of:

• Shallan Kholin = the perfect lightened bride, and Vorin lady.  The one Adolin loves, and wants to be married to and who in turn wants to love and be married to him
• Radiant Shallan = the knight radiant, who is strong, confident, and capable of being essentially a demigod among humans.  the public face for the expectations of this position
• Veiled Shallan = the spy, the thief, the potential hitman.

and when she is finally reintegrated, she may not be able to be Shallan Kholin any longer, both figuratively and literally...

[MonsterMetroid]

I can't believe this is still going, I was going to put this is the Shallan and Adolin won't last thread but here is something Brandon just posted that is applicable

Most pertinent is this part

Quote

Shallan is coping with her pain in (best I've been able to do) a very realistic way, by boxing off and retreating and putting on a mask of humor and false "everything is okay" attitudes. But she has magical abilities that nobody in this world has, including the ability to put on masks that change the way everyone perceives her. She's playing roles as she puts them on, but I make it very clear (with deliberate slip-ups of self-reference in the prose) that it's always Shallan in there, and she's specifically playing this role because it lets her ignore the things she doesn't want to face.

She's losing control of what is real and what isn't--partially because she can't decide who she wants to be, who she should be, and what the world wants her to be. But it's not like other personalities are creeping in from a fractured psyche. She's hiding behind masks, and creates each role for herself to act in an attempt to solve a perceived shortcoming in herself. She literally sketched out Veil and thought, "Yup, I'm going to become that person now." Because Veil would have never been tricked into caring about her father; she would have been too wise for that.

 

[Dreamstorm]

@MonsterMetroid This is a brilliant find!  The most WoB we've had on this subject since OB came out...  A couple preliminary thoughts:

1. There's no real-world analog he's using to create what is going on with Shallan, so we (unfortunately) can't rely on any real-world diagnosis and treatment to guess his actual resolution.
2. I can't tell if what we call "Shallan" (in the various names we use) is "real" Shallan by this... some of it "boxing off and retreating and putting on a mask of humor and false 'everything is okay' attitudes" and "she's specifically playing this role because it lets her ignore the things she doesn't want to face" make me think no (i.e. "Shallan" is not real Shallan) because the "mask of humor and everything is cool" is a hallmark of "Shallan" and "Shallan" is ignoring/repressing so much.  But when he says "I make it very clear (with deliberate slip-ups of self-reference in the prose) that it's always Shallan in there" that makes me doubt it.  So I'm still confused in this regard.
3. Some of this makes me think the personas are not integral parts of her, such as this line "She literally sketched out Veil and thought, 'Yup, I'm going to become that person now.'", which makes it seem like Veil is just a fantasy, like a role she's playing as an actor, instead of Veil's traits actually being part of herself.  I don't get this from the books at all (since she is shown as needing Veil (and Radiant) in order to be fully functioning, e.g. the Thaylen City battle scene), so this confuses me.
4. This seems to be the crux of it: "she can't decide who she wants to be, who she should be, and what the world wants her to be" which makes me think the resolution will be tied less to figuring out what to do with these "masks" but more with Shallan figuring out who she wants to be.  Right now she wants to be a princess and lead a comfortable life with Adolin, so that really could be the conclusion if seen through this light.  But again, I can't decide if "Shallan" is a mask too or if not (based on this), but really the masks may be less important than Shallan figuring out who she is.

Such a goldmine, haha!  I realized (by clicking on your link!) you could search reddit for Brandon posts and found this about the timeskip.  No clue if this pertains to anything on this subject, but it looks like we will "miss" things which will be seen in flashbacks to fill us in later in the book.  Interesting...

Quote

Things will happen during the gap, I'm afraid. You might like it, you might not, but I do plan some of the flashbacks in the second half to help cover this time--so you'll see it eventually.

 

 

 

[MonsterMetroid]

3 minutes ago, Dreamstorm said:

Such a goldmine, haha!  I realized (by clicking on your link!) you could search reddit for Brandon posts and found this about the timeskip.  No clue if this pertains to anything on this subject, but it looks like we will "miss" things which will be seen in flashbacks to fill us in later in the book.  Interesting...

Uh oh... now I wont be able to catch up to you in rep my secret has been revealed! Haha.

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, MonsterMetroid said:

she's specifically playing this role because it lets her ignore the things she doesn't want to face.

I wonder how this will reflect on her bond with Pattern... This constant hiding. At least, we now know, that she is still in need of her masks. Or more that she perceives herself to be in need of her masks, she just stopped creating more.

18 minutes ago, Dreamstorm said:

Some of this makes me think the personas are not integral parts of her, such as this line "She literally sketched out Veil and thought, 'Yup, I'm going to become that person now.'", which makes it seem like Veil is just a fantasy, like a role she's playing as an actor, instead of Veil's traits actually being part of herself.

Well, even if it is just a role she is playing, she still needs those traits in herself to apply them, right? What I've taken from that is, that these shortcomings she's trying to fix are more or less just perceived by her, but not actually there. So, she had those traits before, but perceived herself as not being able to apply them, so she created a mask for it, but now of course can't use these traits as Shallan anymore, because she perceives herself as unable to.

I wonder if that is also why Veil suddenly got the exact same feelings about Kaladin, that she had after Jasnah's stern talking to. Shallan perceived those as a shortcoming of herself, so she, maybe subconsciously, shoved them off to Veil, but didn't have them herself anymore. That doesn't make them less real though.

18 minutes ago, Dreamstorm said:

This seems to be the crux of it: "she can't decide who she wants to be, who she should be, and what the world wants her to be" which makes me think the resolution will be tied less to figuring out what to do with these "masks" but more with Shallan figuring out who she wants to be.  Right now she wants to be a princess and lead a comfortable life with Adolin, so that really could be the conclusion if seen through this light.  But again, I can't decide if "Shallan" is a mask too or if not (based on this), but really the masks may be less important than Shallan figuring out who she is.

This seems to be correct. Its more about her finding herself. Everything kinda still seems in the open, because of the fact, that she still has Veil and Radiant.

At least, the ending still seems more like, that she let Adolin choose, who she should be.

Edited January 12, 2018 by SLNC

[Dreamstorm]

@SLNC I want to say I personally agree with every point you say here, but I'm always worried my own bias (in who I want Shallan to be and also in what all this could mean for Shallan and her character arc, including our favorite romantic debate, going forward) is effecting how I'm interpreting things.  Especially your last point, about how Adolin chose who Shallan should be, is something which made me not be able to start my SA reread when we first discussed this.  It literally made me ill to think this was being put up as a healthy thing; having a man choose who a woman should be (even if that wasn't the man's intent.)  I could rage against the goddamn patriarchy here, and I will restrain myself, but safe to say this brings up very strong emotions.  So I know I have that bias, and I know I want to interpret everything through that lens (I want to be able to like Brandon as an author!), so I try really hard to find counter-arguments to the points which support my bias.  Anyway, this was a personal ramble, but a couple actual points.

3 hours ago, SLNC said:

At least, we now know, that she is still in need of her masks. Or more that she perceives herself to be in need of her masks, she just stopped creating more.

I think this is the strongest "positive" IMO out of Brandon's post, that is does seem like "Shallan" is just another mask, as this seems to describe her perfectly: "Shallan is coping with her pain in (best I've been able to do) a very realistic way, by boxing off and retreating and putting on a mask of humor and false "everything is okay" attitudes."  She hasn't faced her pain, she is still laughing things off and mostly telling us (the reader) and herself over and over again how she's happy!  It's ok to be happy!  It's good to celebrate!  Given the painful struggles we've seen Kaladin and Dalinar go through to accept their pain, I can't imagine we're supposed to think Shallan has taken that step.

3 hours ago, SLNC said:

Well, even if it is just a role she is playing, she still needs those traits in herself to apply them, right? What I've taken from that is, that these shortcomings she's trying to fix are more or less just perceived by her, but not actually there. So, she had those traits before, but perceived herself as not being able to apply them, so she created a mask for it, but now of course can't use these traits as Shallan anymore, because she perceives herself as unable to.

While I think the text supports that she needs Veil and Radiant to be a whole person (or at least a person who is capable of progressing as a Radiant), the way Brandon phrased the creation of Veil is concerning to me.  He made it seem like Shallan dreamed up a character and brought it to life.  An actor can play a character who is nothing like them, so I worry that is what Shallan is supposed to be seen as doing - playing these characters "Veil" and "Radiant" in order to help her hide, when in fact Veil and Radiant aren't her as all and are just complete fabrications.  Note this contradicts what Wit tells her (they are all you, to paraphrase) but aligns with what we see Shallan do in the end (forcibly say, you both are fantasies and not me, even if I play your role occasionally.)  This is the part of Brandon's post which worries me the most, as I think the natural conclusion to this is not that Adolin chose the Shallan she should be, but that he recognized the "real" Shallan who was getting taken over by these fantasy creations.  I think this is what Shadolin supporters have said previously - there doesn't need to be a reintegration because Veil and Radiant aren't actually parts of Shallan at all.