[OB] Adolin-Shallan-Kaladin Discussion

[Marns she/her]

I was talking with some friends the other day about if Shaladin was dead or not and one of them pointed something that I think is really foreshadowing and very interesting. And I think anyone hadn't pointed here. 

Brandon always shows the weddings. And we didn't see this one.... (This is maybe because we have one wedding in the book but... the oaths are very important in the series so its seems strange that Brandon didn't show this if its really significative)

 

[Guest]

Quote

“I . . .” He spoke with such authority, such a compelling sense of motion. “I don’t know, Kaladin.”

“We’re heading in the right direction,” he said, firm. “I saw it, Shallan. We just need to continue with the ship a few more days, then find a way to escape. We can hike to the Oathgate on this side, and you can transfer us to Thaylen City.”

It sounded reasonable. Well, except for the fact that the honorspren were watching them. And the fact that the Fused knew where they were now, and were probably gathering forces to give chase. And the fact that they had to somehow escape from a ship in the middle of a sea of beads, reach the shore, then hike two hundred miles to reach Thaylen City.

All of that could fade before Kaladin’s passion. All but the worry that topped them all—could she even make the Oathgate work? She couldn’t help feeling that too much of this plan depended on her.

Yet those eyes . . .

“We could try a mutiny,” Veil said. “Maybe those mistspren who do all the work will listen. They can’t be happy, always hopping about, following honorspren orders.”

“I don’t know,” Kaladin said, voice hushing as one of these spren—made entirely of mist, save for the hands and face—walked past.

“Could be reckless. I can’t fight them all.”

“What if you had Stormlight?” Veil asked. “If I could pinch it back for you? What then?”

He rubbed at his chin again. Storms, he looked good with a beard. All ragged and untamed through the face, contrasted by his sharp blue uniform. Like a wild spren of passion, trapped by the oaths and codes . . .

Wait.

Wait, had that been Veil?

Shallan shook free of the momentary drifting of personality. Kaladin didn’t seem to notice.

Kaladin didn't seem to notice... How should he? To him you've always been genuine, Shallan. To Adolin, not. Of course, Adolin would recognize "you", when it is the only way he ever truly knew you.

sigh

Edited November 21, 2017 by SLNC

[kari-no-sugata]

For reference, in chapter 63, there's this:

Quote

I like him, Veil thought. An ... odd thought, in how much stronger that feeling was to Veil than it had been to Shallan. I like that brooding sense he has about him, those dangerous eyes.

Why did Shallan focus so much on Adolin? He was nice, but also bland. You couldn't tease him without feeling bad, but Kaladin, he glared at you in the most satisfying of ways.

The part of her that was still Shallan, deep down, was bothered by this line of thinking.

So basically, Veil wants to flirt with Kaladin and tease him and considers Adolin to be boring in comparison. Shallan disagrees.

 

In chapter 77, these's also this (about Shallan and Adolin from Kaladin's POV):

Quote

"Oh hush," she said, and batted his arm in a playful - and somewhat nauseating - way.

Yes, it was uncomfortable to watch the two of them. Kaladin liked them both ... just not together.

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

So basically, Veil wants to flirt with Kaladin and tease him and considers Adolin to be boring in comparison. Shallan disagrees.

Of course, (Shallan - Veil) always was just interested in Adolin. She pushed her feelings for Kaladin away to Veil.

6 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

Quote

 

"Oh hush," she said, and batted his arm in a playful - and somewhat nauseating - way.

Yes, it was uncomfortable to watch the two of them. Kaladin liked them both ... just not together.

 

 

Thanks Kal. For saying what we're all thinking.

Edited November 21, 2017 by SLNC

[Ailvara]

I just made a mistake of reading some comments and reviews on reddit, tor etc, where everyone is so sure that this is a wonderful end to this love story, Shallan had found herself and this is all so true and happy. My question is, have we created a microclimate of careful readers or wishful thinkers? I really thought it's the first option, but when next person tells you you're crazy... 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Ailvara

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Ailvara said:

I just made a mistake of reading some comments and reviews on reddit, tor etc, where everyone is so sure that this is a wonderful and to this love story, Shallan had found herself and this is all so true and happy. My question is, have we created a microclimate of careful readers or wishful thinkers? I really thought it's the first option, but when next person tells you you're crazy... 

Eh. I'd call us careful readers, they would call us wishful thinkers.That is just the nature of it.

[Dreamstorm]

5 minutes ago, Ailvara said:

I just made a mistake of reading some comments and reviews on reddit, tor etc, where everyone is so sure that this is a wonderful end to this love story, Shallan had found herself and this is all so true and happy. 

Part of me definitely thinks that Sanderson feels like he did that... and that it was so poorly done such that some of us just wish it wasn't the case.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Dreamstorm

[Rainier]

10 hours ago, PhineasGage said:

I think Kaladin doesn't see the fronts because he sees one person. I think Adolin can see them because he has a picture of who Shallan is in his mind (which is her fault in fairness as she plays a role for him) and when she doesn't quite act according to expectations he sees it as being a result of the split. 

This is the key piece of this triangle that I think it all hinges on. Shallan only ever shows Adolin what he's expecting and wanting to see: a lovely Brightness ready and suitable to be his wife and object of his desire. Kaladin, on the other hand, actually sees who Shallan really is in the chasm scene, which is what makes all of these developments so jarring. I don't think Shallan can stay with Adolin, because she's still lying to herself. Didn't she go catatonic right before the wedding? I should go through and record all the times when she starts staring off into space, because those are the times when she's breaking her bond to Pattern. Those are the times when she's lying to herself so deeply and suppressing the truth so fiercely that her consciousness breaks and she loses time and memory. This is hugely significant, completely unresolved, and central to the character. I'm going to be looking for more of these lapses in book 4, because I suspect they're foreshadowing a similar confrontation with her spren, like Kal had with Syl. 

[Egomere]

11 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Eh. I'd call us careful readers, they would call us wishful thinkers.That is just the nature of it.

and I would call us crazy... especially as we don't really have clue how things are going to pan in the next 2 books...

 

8 minutes ago, Dreamstorm said:

Part of me definitely thinks that Sanderson feels like he did that... and that it was so poorly done such that some of us just wish it wasn't the case.

Yaep that's a big problem... he's normally so good at foreshadowing stuff to have included so much previously it leading nothing was just a big let down. It's not like I really wanted a Shaladin ship. I was just hoping for a mature interesting triangle that actually progressed all characters in an intelligent manner. I feel that with everything myself and others have said in this topic we have didn't get that at all... and because of that I;m really hoping more of this is developed and resolved in books 4 / 5 (and maybe beyond).

Edited November 21, 2017 by Egomere
added stuff.

[Guest]

Just now, Egomere said:

and I would call us crazy... especially as we don't really have clue how things are going to pan in the next 2 books...

Obsessed  Which is a kind of crazy

[DeployParachute]

4 minutes ago, Ailvara said:

I just made a mistake of reading some comments and reviews on reddit, tor etc, where everyone is so sure that this is a wonderful end to this love story, Shallan had found herself and this is all so true and happy. My question is, have we created a microclimate of careful readers or wishful thinkers? I really thought it's the first option, but when next person tells you you're crazy... 

I'd say people will see what they want to see.  Those shippers who like Adolin and Shallan together probably are not going to pick up on any subtle clues or hints that tease something romantic for Kaladin and Shallan.  I think that's just human nature.  For me, personally, I did not even consider Kaladin and Shallan a possibility, as in the thought of the two main leads getting together, until after:

a ) The boot scene in WoR
b )The fight between them just outside of the king's audience chambers when Shallan first arrived

It was at those moments that I thought "hmm...that was an interesting way for Brandon to decide to write the 2 first crucial encounters between these two major characters".  And by that point, I was hooked.  Once I was open to the idea, then I couldn't NOT see all the clues, hints, and gems sprinkled throughout the text that suggested Shalladin was going to be a thing.  I also believe that Brandon is not the kind of writer who is going to go the obvious love choice route that is presented with the arranged causal betrothal.  He was holding something up in his hand saying "Here, look here, look at this, this is the thing to look at", all the while using his other hand to create the subtle truth.  I guess I think to myself that once I knew to LOOK AWAY from the obvious and in your face pairing (Shadolin), it was easier for me to observe what the other hand is doing.  And I believe that other hand is doing something because I believe in the writing skills of the author.  Granted, I could still be very very VERY wrong (trying to be fair here, Shadolin shippers), but for 4 years, I didn't think so, and I felt i had textual evidence to back it up.

There are just so many individual things that Brandon has added to these books for Shallan and Kaladin, that I have a very hard time believing that they were there solely to provide some meaningless friction, and quick decision made over the course of a paragraph (rush into things much, Shallan?) so that she and Adolin can live "happily ever after".  

In other words, i don't think Brandon thought:  "Shallan and Adolin are going to be together, I want them to be together, but I can't make it too easy for them, so I'll throw a little plot with Kaladin and Shallan so that the end result feels more real."

[Rainier]

10 minutes ago, Dreamstorm said:

Part of me definitely thinks that Sanderson feels like he did that... and that it was so poorly done such that some of us just wish it wasn't the case.

This is my worst-case-scenario: that Brandon is secretly a bad writer and has been all along. I choose not to believe this (yet), so instead I choose to believe that what I interpreted as foreshadowing is, in fact, actual foreshadowing and not just poorly written dreck. 

It was at those moments that I thought "hmm...that was an interesting way for Brandon to decide to write the 2 first crucial encounters between these two major characters".

Yeah, and following it with the first scene where someone actually sees Shallan for who she is and not who she wants to be seen as in the chasms makes me think it's deliberate. But the rushed ending of this book and the wedding (presumably consummated) makes me wonder otherwise.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Rainier

[Egomere]

2 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Obsessed  Which is a kind of crazy

hehe well I tried plain boring sanity with no... intresting random and wierd proclivities and decided it was just so damnation boring. I mean Storms if I can't enjoy being crazy theres something wrong with this world.

[Info_Drone-0451 he/him]

1 hour ago, Ailvara said:

I just made a mistake of reading some comments and reviews on reddit, tor etc, where everyone is so sure that this is a wonderful end to this love story, Shallan had found herself and this is all so true and happy. My question is, have we created a microclimate of careful readers or wishful thinkers? I really thought it's the first option, but when next person tells you you're crazy... 

Yeah, I tried going into Reddit yesterday and literally the first comment I saw in the Megathread was how a Shalladin shipper thought that the triangle was so wonderfully done and concluded in a satisfying manner or something like that.It, almost, gave me a migraine. I have never abandoned a threat quicker than I did yesterday. Suffice to say that I'm not planning to return to the subreddit anytime in the foreseeable future.  Now I'm not saying that it can't be true but I just can't see how anyone can be satisfied with this no matter what "ship" they were rooting for. But I decided not to discuss because... well... I think we all know might know how the Reddit (in general) hivemind works, so instead of bombing my self to oblivion with downvotes no matter how respectful I would try to be, I was glad that back in Friday I came to discuss here. I continue to be astounded by the level of thoughtfulness and maturity shown in this thread, even if things threatened to get dicey for a bit yesterday.

Edited November 21, 2017 by DimChatz

[kari-no-sugata]

5 minutes ago, Ailvara said:

I just made a mistake of reading some comments and reviews on reddit, tor etc, where everyone is so sure that this is a wonderful end to this love story, Shallan had found herself and this is all so true and happy. My question is, have we created a microclimate of careful readers or wishful thinkers? I really thought it's the first option, but when next person tells you you're crazy... 

In my case, I was quite confident that Shallan and Adolin would end up together (I didn't expect a wedding so soon, though the plot somewhat forced that). However, if I'd point to one passage that doesn't work for me, it would be this one near the end:

 

Quote

“Shallan . . .” Adolin said, taking her hand.
 
“What?” Veil asked.
 
“Something’s wrong.”
 
“Of course it is,” Radiant said. “This fighting has left us all thoroughly worn out.”
 
Adolin searched her eyes. She bled from one, to the other, and back. A moment of Veil. A moment of Radiant. Shallan peeking through—
 
Adolin’s hand tightened around her own.
 
Shallan’s breath caught. There, she thought. That’s the one. That’s the one I am.
 
He knows.
 
Adolin relaxed, and for the first time she noticed how ragged his clothing was. She raised her safehand to her lips. “Adolin, are you all right?”

This feels like a double leap of faith - that Adolin can do this and that this makes things just work for Shallan.

It doesn't work for me emotionally or logically. It feels too arbitrary. It doesn't help that Shallan is really worn out at this time and it feels the wrong moment to make a big decision. I've had points in my life when I've spent months thinking about something, trying to decide, and suddenly it can click - this has happened several times for me. But, that feels rather unfair in a book. I certainly believe that Adolin is a good listener and can be more perceptive than people give him credit for but it feels too much here unless Shallan is visibly shifting as well (which I don't think is the case). I can theorise about this all but it feels weak.

Wit told Shallan she has to forgive herself but there doesn't feel a particular moment when this happens. Jasnah once does have a thought (regarding Renarin) about how life can be harder but much more fulfilling when you find the courage to choose and that could apply to Shallan as well here. It probably would have helped to see more of Adolin's feelings for Shallan in his POVs (there's surprisingly little - there was more in WoR)

Anyway, this scene didn't work for me at the time so the follow-on scenes from this didn't work either. I feel better about it now but I'm not sure I'll ever find this scene to be satisfying... even though I more or less got what I wanted in the end.

[Egomere]

1 minute ago, kari-no-sugata said:

In my case, I was quite confident that Shallan and Adolin would end up together (I didn't expect a wedding so soon, though the plot somewhat forced that). However, if I'd point to one passage that doesn't work for me, it would be this one near the end:

This feels like a double leap of faith - that Adolin can do this and that this makes things just work for Shallan.

It doesn't work for me emotionally or logically. It feels too arbitrary. It doesn't help that Shallan is really worn out at this time and it feels the wrong moment to make a big decision. I've had points in my life when I've spent months thinking about something, trying to decide, and suddenly it can click - this has happened several times for me. But, that feels rather unfair in a book. I certainly believe that Adolin is a good listener and can be more perceptive than people give him credit for but it feels too much here unless Shallan is visibly shifting as well (which I don't think is the case). I can theorise about this all but it feels weak.

Anyway, this scene didn't work for me at the time so the follow-on scenes from this didn't work either. I feel better about it now but I'm not sure I'll ever find this scene to be satisfying... even though I more or less got what I wanted in the end.

I agree with this. I had thought Shadolin might have been the true thing it's just again how we reached that conclusion. (and of course the mental of poor Shallan now makes me very very wary and tentative about her future. I was really hoping that Kaladin and Shallan had some more page time to at least become good friends: the ones you can tease the hell out of each other and no one gets stroppy with minor flirtations but nothing 'serious', even if it didn't go further. Yet we missed all the potential for a misunderstanding and a 1 sentance trip.

I don't think she was shifting looks via lightweaving - it mentions her eyes and how adolin was 'searching' them - I imagine meaning how her personalities were switching rapidly (driving seat behind the eyes and all that).

Adolin searched her eyes. She bled from one, to the other, and back. 

The arbitary 'feels' of this scene (and the later one of her speech to him) just came across and kitsch rather than BS's usual nuanced subtley of style. Although it could all change by the later books. But until then I will def. be left feeling like we missed a trick.

 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

I certainly believe that Adolin is a good listener and can be more perceptive than people give him credit for but it feels too much here unless Shallan is visibly shifting as well (which I don't think is the case).

I don't think he is a very perceptive person, but a good listener, I guess... But I know that some do and I can respect that.

I do agree with the highlighted part though. I think, that Adolin just squeezed her hand as a gesture of telling her, that he is with her and Shallan thought, that he had seen something shift. How would she know if her eyes change, when her personality shifts? Do they even? I think it is yet another lie - or more forced conviction -, that she is telling herself.

I do think, that he finally caught on what more Shallan actually is, because this is the first time she let her mask fall before him. It is like he is seeing the other sides of Shallan for the first time, the sides Kaladin already knows, which is why he doesn't differentiate them from Shallan, and says "Something's wrong." But, of course, Adolin misunderstood again. She doesn't become other people, she just has personality shifts, but maybe he couldn't know. Shallan was conning him about herself all along. It actually seems pretty tragic thinking about it like that.

@PhineasGage I think it is time for another essay

46 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

Wit told Shallan she has to forgive herself but there doesn't feel a particular moment when this happens.

Exactly. That is what this whole discussion at the core is based on. Adolin maybe gives her a bit of stability, though I'd argue, that he doesn't even give her that, since she seemingly still shifts to Veil at times, but this is not progress. This is not what Wit meant.

46 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

life can be harder but much more fulfilling when you find the courage to choose

But is it really a choice, if you have the constant pressure of a causal betrothal on your back? If you have people, that expect you pull through with it, namely Navani and Jasnah?

Edited November 21, 2017 by SLNC

[Harbour he/him]

1 hour ago, DeployParachute said:

In other words, i don't think Brandon thought:  "Shallan and Adolin are going to be together, I want them to be together, but I can't make it too easy for them, so I'll throw a little plot with Kaladin and Shallan so that the end result feels more real."

I pretty much think he thinks the opposite - "Shallan and Kaladin are going to be together, I want them to be together, but i can't make it too easy for them, so i'll throw a little plot with Adolin and Shallan so that the end result feels more real". 

And all of us here talking about all these little or big details and hints aren't crazy. Its just the book really full of subtle details and hints. But even if not to look at little details, but at the whole picture, i would never call Shalladin/Shadolin resolution perfectly looking.

Its like the tree in the eye - Adolin telling Shallan that she and Kaladin love each other before the wedding. BOOM! It doesnt even matter what lie or truth Shallan told to convince him, here the fact - 50% of Shadolin thinks that Shalladin looks better (while 50% of Shalladin thinks that Shadolin looks bad). And that was written by BS, btw.

Its not perfect resolution. Just imagine that conversation in our life. The man you probably love tells you that you and other guy look at each other in special way so he gives up on you. You tell him this is crem dung and week later you marry that man. Cough cough i wouldnt be happy to be that man or that girl.

 Ill tell you what will be generally better resolution for Shadolin - Adolin doesnt tell Shallan that she and Kaladin love each other. At least that resolution won't look like its corrupted.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Harbour

[Info_Drone-0451 he/him]

Quote

BOOM! It doesnt even matter what lie or truth Shallan told to convince him, here the fact - 50% of Shadolin thinks that Shalladin looks better (while 50% of Shalladin thinks that Shadolin looks bad). And that was written by BS, btw.

@Harbour could you perhaps explain further because I don't quite get your meaning here? Also, could you tell me when BS said that and at what event? I, unfortunately, haven't kept up too much on last week's events ad what is being said there.

[Kardenal_13 he/him]

So I've read most of the thread, just wanted to chime in, did anyone else the impression that Shallan is just lying to herself and that her indecision about Kal/Adolin is going to cause her major problems in the future?

When I finished the book I didn't really see the love triangle being "resolved", so much as Kaladin saying he's out because of the marriage (which I think is exactly what he would do), Adolin thinking some other person Shallan pretends to be is in love with Kaladin, and Shallan in denial about her actually being Veil, Radiant, and "Shallan".
Basically Kaladin is out, Adolin has been "tricked" into thinking that the triangle is gone, and Shallan is too blind to see that it's still going strong (at least for her).

[GoddessIMHO]

Some folks seem to think the "wedding" means that Shallan will be magically cured. I don't think that at all. I think she and Adolin both have major issues they will have to deal with. The strength will come from them working together to overcome the issues. I agree with the person who said that Kaladin is way too sensitive to deal with Shallan. He would likely go back into depression. He has no idea their ARE multiple personalities. It's not that he "sees" the real one, he has no clue. She had not split yet during the chasm scene so of course he saw the "real" Shallan then, there wasn't another one. In OB all he notices are the actual actions she takes, regardless of the personality.

Wit was able to stabilize her down to the main 3 which are likely all parts of the essential Shallan. She was totally lost when she was rolling through every single face she had ever drawn. She was at the total break down  point and in the most danger of never coming back.

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, GoddessIMHO said:

He has no idea their ARE multiple personalities. It's not that he "sees" the real one, he has no clue. She had not split yet during the chasm scene so of course he saw the "real" Shallan then, there wasn't another one. In OB all he notices are the actual actions she takes, regardless of the personality.

Because there aren't. Veil and Radiant are just fragments of herself. Shallan is making these distinctions in her head. She thinks Adolin "knows" her because he has never seen these sides of Shallan, who always hid those sides from him, which is why he gets suspicious. Kaladin doesn't because he already knows these facets of her personality. That is why he doesn't get suspicious.

Edited November 21, 2017 by SLNC

[Dreamstorm]

1 hour ago, DeployParachute said:

In other words, i don't think Brandon thought:  "Shallan and Adolin are going to be together, I want them to be together, but I can't make it too easy for them, so I'll throw a little plot with Kaladin and Shallan so that the end result feels more real."

This WoB makes me worry this is exactly what Brandon thinks.... however, as @Harbour points out, it could be the opposite (Adolin is the conflict not Kaladin.)

Quote

QUESTION (PARAPHRASED)

Please don’t tell me you’re going to do a love triangle between Adolin, Kaladin, and Shallan.

BRANDON SANDERSON

(he phrased this very carefully) I'm not a fan of the traditional love triangle. However, I am fond of conflict in relationships.

1 hour ago, Rainier said:

This is my worst-case-scenario: that Brandon is secretly a bad writer and has been all along. I choose not to believe this (yet), so instead I choose to believe that what I interpreted as foreshadowing is, in fact, actual foreshadowing and not just poorly written dreck. 

I have read only about half of the Cosmere books (the rest will come once I get over OB!), but unfortunately I feel like what I've seen so far (Mistborn era 1...) does not show a lot of nuance in the romance department...  (Note I liked Vin/Elend together, I just thought the emotions behind their relationship could have been better developed.)

1 hour ago, DimChatz said:

Now I'm not saying that it can't be true but I just can't see how anyone can be satisfied with this no matter what "ship" they were rooting for.

THIS.  I like Adolin and Shallan together.  I think her and Kaladin have more potential, but I went into OB with an open mind between the two.  I left... just hating the whole storyline and putting it on my (unfortunately long) failed love triangle list. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Dreamstorm

[Egomere]

45 minutes ago, Harbour said:

And all of us here talking about all these little or big details and hints aren't crazy. Its just the book really full of subtle details and hints. But even if not to look at little details, but at the whole picture, i would never call Shalladin/Shadolin resolution perfectly looking.

I prefer the term differently minded than crazy (which we all could be) 'cos we might be seeing things that aren't there.

BS is a master of foreshadowing and subtle hints about all sorts - all of which were seemingly ignored in OB. After that beautifully brilliant Chasm scene we got no development on any front of the 'triangle' except Shallan and Adolin hanging out and occasionally drinking as Veil.

Now I am worried about this being the end; because if Book 4 is set one year later if anything monumental had happened we won't be seeing the actual events on the potential fallout (which is bad). Add in BS penchant for arranged marriages turning out super means I fear we're going to be left feeling unsatisfied for good. Maybe I'll feel better after a second readthrough - will def. be checking with toothcomb all Shallan / Kaladin / Adolin interactions (any number of).

I will also maintain that 'Shallan popped' could be more meaningful than before (even though it had nothing to do with Adolin or Kaladin and was in scene with Jasnah.

edit below

BRANDON SANDERSON

(he phrased this very carefully) I'm not a fan of the traditional love triangle. However, I am fond of conflict in relationships.

 

In this case he also failed though because other than Shallan / Veil going 'ooooo mr broody eyes so dreamy and solid like wind rock' there was no CONFLICT - not even a macho growling scene between Adolin and Kaladin about who loves her more or whatever.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Egomere
added words.

[Harbour he/him]

26 minutes ago, DimChatz said:

@Harbour could you perhaps explain further because I don't quite get your meaning here? Also, could you tell me when BS said that and at what event? I, unfortunately, haven't kept up too much on last week's events ad what is being said there.

Maybe i failed to be clear.

I took the scene where Adolin told Shallan that he gives up on her and started to throw the arguements at her. Him noticing HOW both Shallan and Kaladin looked at each other was among these arguements. That led Adolin to realization that Kaladin and Shallan should be together.

In her turn Shallan started to convince him that everything is all right.

In my opinion the very need of conviction that she "doesnt love Kaladin, or its just the Veil who loves Kaladin or whatever" indicates that Shadolin resolution wasnt perfect and well done. In the 100% healthy relationships there is no an attempts of giving up on the partner and conviction that "i have nothing with the guy you saw me with yeasterday"

And week or so after that scene they get married. Week after Adolin tried to break up with Shallan. Shadolin doesnt look solid id say. Its foundation doesnt look solid.

On other ship Kaladin think that he doesnt like how Adolin and Shallan looks together.

I took all of that, summed up and made an emphasis on the fact that scenes i described were written by our beloved Brandon Sanderson. I meant, if he wrote the scenes that way, then he wanted them to look that way.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Harbour