Wouldn't it be interesting...

[Vissy]

@Fifth of Daybreak Do you have a WoB on that part about Sadeas' bridges being made of some invented type of wood, or based on invented physics? I don't think I've heard that before so I'm interested

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

26 minutes ago, Vissy said:

@Fifth of Daybreak Do you have a WoB on that part about Sadeas' bridges being made of some invented type of wood, or based on invented physics? I don't think I've heard that before so I'm interested

Full results here, but I'll post one of the WoB

https://wob.coppermind.net/basic_search/?query=Wood+bridges

 

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Ben's interpretation posted in this thread is the canon one. I wish I'd gotten a picture into the books. One of my regrets for Book One is not thinking to put a diagram.

One thing I worked with when writing the first book were heavy counterweights that you locked into place on one side of the bridge (at the sides) then pulled off and carted across to lock on the other side of the bridge, to change the center of gravity for maneuvering the bridge. They broke the flow too much, so I think I cut all references, but you can head-canon them if you want. I think you'd realistically need something like that to get across some of the wider chasms.

The math on bridges is a bit tricky, regardless. Even with Roshar's gravity, we had to use a Soulcast wood (one that doesn't exist on earth) for huge sections of the bridges to get a strength/weight ratio that would actually work. (Meaning, it could be carried by the numbers of bridgemen we needed after some were killed, but was still be strong enough to ride across.)

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Fifth of Daybreak

[AbsentKeeper he/him]

15 hours ago, Yata said:

 

Probably, the air's cognitive (very ephimeral I believe) is not "point to point" but rather a single bead representing a small area of physical air.

 I like this idea, I think this is the best solution so far for making everything we've seen work together.

[KidWayne he/him]

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:05 PM, Crimson Not Blood said:

I was referring to Fabrial Soulcasting, not Surgbinding Soulcasting, since a Radiant has other powers at work that influence the fight, though that doesn't necessarily rule out the usefulness of combat transmutation, I suppose

You could always have a Windrunner/Skybreaker Aerial company sprinkle anything that would float, have a Edgedancer/Lightweaver company soulcast the floating material into oil , and then have a single Dustbringer set a whole battlefield (and its combatants) on fire.

Even better if you can soulcast the stuff into greek fire or napalm or something that will burn for a while. If you did this during the weeping or after a highstorm the rainwater would spread the oil fire.

You could use a similar tactic to send a swarm of cremlings across enemy lines and then turn them into combustible or explosive objects.  

I wonder whether windrunners can use lashings to draw water up out of the sea and send it upward/forward... That would have some interesting lashing+soulcasting potential as well as being destructive in its own right. Could they use adhesion to stick water on someone's face and drown them with a water glass (or a puddle)? If they could lash water from across a room and then stick it on someone's face they could more or less use Darth Vader's force choke (albeit in a more visible - and perhaps more terrifying - way).

[Quickbronze he/him]

That is indeed terrifying 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

On 11/10/2017 at 11:11 PM, Cowmanthethird said:

Edit again: Is it possible that they just pull in nearby mass to make up the difference in density? Someone needs to ask Brandon if the volume remains the same when you Soulcast something into a denser material.

Soulcasting is mass-conservative in most circumstances. Make implications of that as you wish.

On 11/11/2017 at 6:51 AM, Fifth of Daybreak said:

we had to use a Soulcast wood (one that doesn't exist on earth) for huge sections of the bridges to get a strength/weight ratio that would actually work.

Is Brandon contradicting himself here, or has the Coppermind made the assumption that Makam Wood comes from trees?

Quote

The craftsmen and their apprentices were hard at work cutting lengths of wood for spear hafts, bridges, posts, or furniture. [...] He found a half-finished bridge. It had eventually grown out of that one plank that Kaladin had used. Kaladin knelt down, inspecting the wood. A group of men worked with a large saw just to his right, slicing thin rounds off a log. Those would probably become chairs.

All mobile bridges were made of a kind of wood called makam. It had a deep brown color, the grain almost hidden, and was both strong and light. The craftsmen had sanded this length smooth, and it smelled of sawdust and musky sap.

"They use makam because it's strong enough for its weight to support a heavy cavalry charge."

After reviewing the relevant passages, I think the Coppermind assumed without proof, given the nearby usage of "log" and "plank." There are several other trees that are used for furniture, including a few that grow around the Shattered Plains, so I imagine that those are the logs in question. A real world Lumberyard would handle all kinds of wood it came across, wouldn't it?

I do find it odd that a soulcast wood would have a name assigned to it that isn't just "wood" or "lumber." Soulcast grain is just called "grain," no?

The wood even smells of sap, which(to my knowledge) isn't used in sanding down wood for smoothness. Edit, forgot my point: Soulcast grain has no flavor. Why would soulcast wood retain sap/a sap-like smell?

Edited November 14, 2017 by The One Who Connects

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

There are several other trees that are used for furniture, including a few that grow around the Shattered Plains, so I imagine that those are the logs in question. A real world Lumberyard would handle all kinds of wood it came across, wouldn't it?

We also know from the first chapters where we are introduced to the Kholin's that Sadeas controls those forests, so it stands to reason. 

Quote

“You told him you were increasing what you charge him for wood?”

Sadeas controlled the only large forest in the region. “Doubling it,” Sadeas said.

WoK Chapter 15 The Decoy

 

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

Soulcast grain is just called "grain," no?

Aluminum is a named metal that is only created by Soulcasting.

Quote

“Simple, but of aluminum, which can only be made by Soulcasting,” the man said to his boss. “Ten emerald.”

WoR 48 No More Weakness

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

The wood even smells of sap, which(to my knowledge) isn't used in sanding down wood for smoothness. Edit, forgot my point: Soulcast grain has no flavor. Why would soulcast wood retain sap/a sap-like smell?

I think we can assume that Makam would exist somewhere else in the Cosmere which is why they are able to soulcast it, same with Aluminum. It's still a naturally occurring wood in universe, and so would still have sap in it's natural state, which it reverts to once it has been soulcast imo.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

7 minutes ago, Fifth of Daybreak said:

I think we can assume that Makam would exist somewhere else in the Cosmere which is why they are able to soulcast it,

This I agree with. It just felt.. off, earlier, which is why I brought it up. Grain exists, but soulcast grain felt distinct enough for me to call it different. I'd have to reread to see if I'm over-complicating, but now you know where I was coming from.

7 minutes ago, Fifth of Daybreak said:

in it's natural state, which it reverts to once it has been soulcast imo.

I disagree with this. Soulcast food doesn't revert to it's "natural state," so to speak. Jeez this WoB is text heavy...

Spoiler

Q: Very interesting on the food logistics of Alethkar. Given how slow food transportation is, I would presume fresh food is a no-go. Are spices and preserved food selling well in Roshar, then?

A: There's a reason that Herdazian food (which makes soulcast meat taste good) is popular these days.

Q: Does that just mean Herdazian food is incredibly spice-heavy, then? Also, why is Soulcast food bland? Is it due to the nature of the object (changing food to food makes it tastier than stone to food), or just because the Soulcaster lacks practice, like Jasnah did with strawberry jam?

A: Flavorful, rather than spicy. The Herdazians offer something a little different, and are pretty good with soulcast meat. The portability is also a bit of a revolution. Soulcasting anything other than the basic Essence requires some innate knowledge and practice. People could learn to soulcast better food, but it would have to be a Radiant with control over the process. The soulcaster fabrials are far more rigid in what they can create.

Q: As for soulcasting - now that is... interesting. So are Surgebinding fabrials more rigid in general?

A: A soulcaster is built to do a certain thing, and can do that certain thing well, but without as much flexibility. It is the difference between having a computer output a picture of a circle--following some inputs such as size and some changes to shape--and having an artist who can draw what you want.

It lacks flavor, which is different from normal. I'm not even sure I'd view the natural state of "wood" to include sap. Natural state of a tree, sure. But wood on it's own?

[Calderis he/him]

What I find interesting is the implication that it can only be made by soulcasting. 

As far as I know, soulcasting requires you to know what your making. If it's an artificial production, at this point their obviously copying what they already have. Where did it come from though? The wording "had to be soulcast" implies that it is not naturally occurring. Is this like aluminum, where it just isn't natural to Roshar? Or was this a created material? 

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

50 minutes ago, Calderis said:

As far as I know, soulcasting requires you to know what your making. If it's an artificial production, at this point their obviously copying what they already have. Where did it come from though? The wording "had to be soulcast" implies that it is not naturally occurring. Is this like aluminum, where it just isn't natural to Roshar? Or was this a created material? 

It could be that one of the Soulcasting fabrials is specifically keyed to Aluminum because of meta knowledge lost from before Aharietiam. This makes the most sense to me.

 

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

It lacks flavor, which is different from normal. I'm not even sure I'd view the natural state of "wood" to include sap. Natural state of a tree, sure. But wood on it's own?

The lack of flavor could just be that they are unable to soulcast anything but the most basic if grains and meats due to the constraints of fabrials. Having access to different types of building and tool materials makes sense, so putting resources into creating fabrials specifically to create specialized resources, such as aluminum and Makam makes sense, whereas the only reason to create better food is for luxury, which is not a big priority in war.

The ars arcanum lists the base essence of pulp as "wood, plants, and moss." This implies to me, both with "pulp" and the living material that it is in it's more natural state and not refined, especially since it has to go through refininment at a lumber yard. This means it's not soulcast directly into useable slats of wood, but the raw lumber, which would still have sap. Unless the raw wood has already been dried and cured, it's going to have sap. This is what's called 'green wood.' It's actually a pretty good time of the year to go out and try to find a good example of this. You might be able to find some branches knocked down by a storm recently and compare it to old dead limbs, see how one looks how you would expect a dead limb to look, and the other will be springy and have a greenish tinge. The green wood will also smoke in a fire while dry wood will not produce as much smoke.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

19 minutes ago, Fifth of Daybreak said:

It could be that one of the Soulcasting fabrials is specifically keyed to Aluminum because of meta knowledge lost from before Aharietiam. This makes the most sense to me.

He's talking about the Makam Wood, not the aluminum.

19 minutes ago, Fifth of Daybreak said:

Having access to different types of building and tool materials makes sense, so putting resources into creating fabrials specifically to create specialized resources, such as aluminum and Makam makes sense, whereas the only reason to create better food is for luxury, which is not a big priority in war.

The Soulcasters are relics of ancient times though, remember? They haven't managed to replicate them, which is why they are so tightly controlled. Whatever they put their resources into has gotten them nowhere beyond perhaps making the Essences Chart.

Actually, for the purpose of using wood, does the sap serve any purpose? (I'm not an expert on the subject, as you might've guessed) If it doesn't serve any purpose, then I'd imagine a Soulcaster "specialized" for lumber would try to make wood without it if possible. (I can chalk this point up to Soulcasters being too limited to do so, so it's not a crucial distinction)

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

42 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

He's talking about the Makam Wood, not the aluminum.

My apologies, not able to read as closely as I'd like since I'm doing it between calls, but the concept is still the same, especially for a wood that's as light as balsa but as strong as heavier woods.

44 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

The Soulcasters are relics of ancient times though, remember? They haven't managed to replicate them, which is why they are so tightly controlled. Whatever they put their resources into has gotten them nowhere beyond perhaps making the Essences Chart.

I'm not saying they've created new fabrials, I'm saying the ancient fabrials it would make sense to have them designed to create different types of building materials. I'm possibly misunderstanding the WoB thinking back on how Shallan's soulcaster was supposed to work, but iirc it was supposed to be a rare more powerful one.

 

46 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Actually, for the purpose of using wood, does the sap serve any purpose? (I'm not an expert on the subject, as you might've guessed) If it doesn't serve any purpose, then I'd imagine a Soulcaster "specialized" for lumber would try to make wood without it if possible. (I can chalk this point up to Soulcasters being too limited to do so, so it's not a crucial distinction)

Green wood is more flexible, but I'm more postulating that the essence form of the wood inherently contains sap. From my interpretation of the WoB an experienced Radiant soulcaster would be able to soulcast processed wooden planks ready for construction.

[Calderis he/him]

6 minutes ago, Fifth of Daybreak said:

I'm not saying they've created new fabrials, I'm saying the ancient fabrials it would make sense to have them designed to create different types of building materials. I'm possibly misunderstanding the WoB thinking back on how Shallan's soulcaster was supposed to work, but iirc it was supposed to be a rare more powerful one.

There wasn't much information on the soulcaster Lin got from the Ghostbloods. We know it was used to make marble deposits and that it. 

The talk of a rare more powerful Soulcaster was an assumption on her part about Jasnah's fake. 

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

There wasn't much information on the soulcaster Lin got from the Ghostbloods. We know it was used to make marble deposits and that it. 

The talk of a rare more powerful Soulcaster was an assumption on her part about Jasnah's fake. 

That's right, thanks for the correction. Didn't have the time to double check, but the little bit happening on the forums today and OB is keeping me sane during this hellshift. Been in a vehicle for the past twelve hours and have gone at least 400 miles today, and I'm only halfway through my shift